Eco Stop: a worthy attempt to reduce harmful emissions or a complete waste of time?

Snickers Man · 21-12-2021 07:57PM #1

I drive a three year old Dacia Sandero, bought new from an approved Renault/Dacia dealer.

By and large, we're very pleased with it but the one thing that drives us bananas is the damned Eco Stop feature. As we had exchanged a 2000 reg saloon (which still had a cassette player 🤪🤪🤪) for our shiny new 900cc Romanian muscle car, new-fangled items like built in Sat Nav and Eco Stop were a source of wondrous novelty to us!

Three years later, I don't know how we ever managed without sat nav, but Eco-Stop is a pain in the hole.

Just before our three-year warranty expired, so did our starter motor: at traffic lights at a major junction during what would have been (pre covid lockdown) peak rush hour. As it was, the other half was stranded at the head of a long queue of traffic before some knights in shining armour came to rescue her ....by, er, pushing her over to the kerb and leaving her there but hey, the age of chivalry ended a long time ago.

Fortunately we were still in warranty so the main dealers sorted us out free of charge but we are most reluctant to put the starter motor to all the unnecessary effort of engaging every time we stop at a junction or a traffic light. So we try to remember to keep it turned off at all times.

Sorry Polar Bears!

Is this a common experience or are the starter motors/Eco stop mechanisms in other more upmarket models more reliable than our inexpensive Eastern European runabout? I mean, I want to save the environment and all that but not if our starter is going to burn out every three years. Or less.

Toyotafanboi · 21-12-2021 08:44PM

I wouldn't be too worried. Cars with stop/ start have batteries and starters with the additional workload in mind.

Stop/ start has been mandatory since 2013(?) and in the last decade i wouldn't say starter failure is any more or less prevalant than it ever.

You were unlucky but nothing more than that IMO. If you don't like stop/ start you could code it out but i dont know would i even bother.

FintanMcluskey · 21-12-2021 08:48PM

Always found it a pain in the hole when you forget about it at a junction your pulling away from, and end up waiting a few seconds for it to start.

mikeecho · 22-12-2021 08:22AM

It's second nature now to switch it off, along with putting on a seatbelt... On every car I get into

colm_mcm · 22-12-2021 07:55PM

First thing I did to my car was map out the stop-start function.

Flinty997 · 22-12-2021 08:47PM

Unless I was in very heavy slow moving traffic I turn it off as it's a complete pain.

[Steve] · 22-12-2021 08:48PM

Auto Stop/Start is the first thing I switch off after starting the car. Beyond irritating at junctions.

It’s just the standard routine now when starting the car. At least Ford make it easily accessible next to gear stick. I’ve seen it be a pain in other cars.

22-12-2021 08:52PM

I'm glad to see people with the same opinion as me. :D

It's well-intentioned and all but it just seems like way more of an inconvenience when you're constantly crawling anyway.

colm_mcm · 22-12-2021 10:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118363094#Comment_118363094

It’s purely a means of reducing fuel consumption on emissions testing cycles which have idling periods.

22-12-2021 10:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358284#Comment_118358284

If it takes a few seconds to start your car, there's something wrong with it.

Toyotafanboi · 22-12-2021 10:45PM

Agreed, my engine is running by the time i have the clutch fully depressed. There is virtually no cranking in stop/ start mode.

Flinty997 · 22-12-2021 10:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118363790#Comment_118363790

It takes a few seconds on every (non hybrid) ICE car I ever drove with it.

Toyotafanboi · 22-12-2021 11:00PM

It really doesn't. I dont think i've ever experienced one where the engine isn't running by the time i've the clutch pressed fully.

highdef · 23-12-2021 12:14AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118363886#Comment_118363886

Agreed with regards to my ford focus. There's no delay at all. Press clutch, and by the time I've got the gear stick into 1st, the car is ready to go

User1998 · 23-12-2021 12:30AM

We can thank the greens for stop/start

Leonard Hofstadter · 23-12-2021 10:02AM

I also turn it off on any car that has it, unless it is a six cylinder or larger engine. On three cylinder petrols, or any sort of diesel in particular, it's horrible the way it makes the car shake and rattle. A better advert for EVs I cannot think of.

Flinty997 · 23-12-2021 02:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118363886#Comment_118363886

Our current one is a auto and if you forget to turn it off it causes significant delay at taking off in traffic. I've got into the habit, of feathering the throttle or giving it a dart before I need to move just so its ready to go when I need it. Also cuts out when manoeuvring at slow speed, like a 3 point turn. I know I am constantly waiting on it.

Unless I'm sitting in heavy traffic its entirely pointless. If you spend a lot of driving stopped in traffic I can see the point then.

Henry Ford III · 23-12-2021 08:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118364218#Comment_118364218

European Greens maybe.

24-12-2021 09:16AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118363864#Comment_118363864

Do you drive a Model T where you've to use a crank handle or something?

Wildly Boaring · 24-12-2021 09:33AM

I leave it on.

Have a manual, maybe people with an auto find it more intrusive.

If you know you'll only be stopped for a couple of seconds leave clutch down and car keeps running.

Otherwise let it do its thing. Can't say I've noticed a delay on it starting when I press clutch.

Much more likely to be delayed by the dope in front scrolling through Facebook.

Flinty997 · 24-12-2021 10:22AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118368909#Comment_118368909

Maybe I don't drive like a granny :)

zg3409 · 24-12-2021 05:23PM

It's easy to disable permanently on some VW and similar models. There is a small connector next to the 12 volt battery when unplugged disables stop start permanently. Other cars have different easier or harder ways. I find it very dangerous, particularly at entrance to roundabouts in an automatic where engine stops while you wait for a gap at roundabout. When you press go pedal nothing happens for a significant time. By the point you start to move the roundabout gap may have an HGV.

Rusky rusky · 26-12-2021 04:08PM

our automatic Golf 1.0 mk7.5 restarts the engine automatically when the car in front moves forward so no delay. Although people who tend to creep at traffic light do trigger the restart - super annoying!

MrMusician18 · 26-12-2021 04:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118363864#Comment_118363864

It shouldn't and hasn't on any car I've ever driven. The engine is meant to stop in a way so that it requires minimal starter effort to get it going again.

Stop start has never bothered me tbh.

Sexual Chocolate · 26-12-2021 06:15PM

I have it on my ST as well and knock it off every time I start the car, it's handy the button is right beside the gear stick. Maybe I'm wrong but I have it in my head that it's not good for the turbo and on a diesel it's just a bit on the rough side cranking over compared to a petrol.

elperello · 26-12-2021 06:27PM

Thumbs down from me.

I hate a car that tries to outsmart me.

JohnCleary · 26-12-2021 11:11PM

On my EClass, there is an 'individual' drive setting (i'm sure other cars have it too). On this setting, I disable the auto stop-start.

The handy thing however with the car is that when you change to this setting, it remains for 24 hours (I don't know if it's 24 hours, but every morning when I set it, I don't need to set it again until the next day). Therefore, I only have to disable auto stop-start once per day.

Like others mentioned above, even if I didn't have this feature, the button is on the centre console so very easy to find.

Flinty997 · 27-12-2021 12:53AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118374981#Comment_118374981

Not every car has that system and not every car starts the same.

I didn't stay every car has slow start just the ones I've driven.

Flinty997 · 27-12-2021 01:02AM

Besides if it's was instant there wouldn't be so many complaining about it and disabling it. They didn't wouldn't notice it.

mikeecho · 28-12-2021 09:26PM

I hate it, and always disable it.

But it's a complete pain in the summer, when you're stuck on traffic or at lights, the engine stops, and .... I've no a/c

I NEED AC

jmreire · 28-12-2021 09:44PM

Excerpt from a post on a Mercedes Benz discussion forum about Start / Stop issues.

Quote " Nine times out of ten it's the chain tensioner that causes problems, chain problems aren't common as long as service schedules are kept to.

Our fleet of OM651 sprinters, have anything between 45,000 miles on the 69 plate vans to 483,000 on the 65 plate ones. We've never had to change a chain on any of the fourteen vans, but we have changed six tensioners, twelve alternator and three starter motors. Ironically all but two alternator were on the 69 plate vans along with all the starters! Go figure..... ****** stop/start!!

Three oil coolers, two EGR units, and to cap it all, seventeen water pumps. They all seem to go around 100,000 miles, even the new type

UnQuote,

L1011 · 28-12-2021 09:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118383822#Comment_118383822

Honda and VW ones won't stop if you have AC on, from what I've experienced.

Flinty997 · 28-12-2021 10:10PM

Ours don't stop. But if its too much for the battery it will restart itself.

DaveyDave · 29-12-2021 09:04AM

I'm one of the few on this forum who don't have an issue with start stop. Recently saw a post on Reddit about it and it was full of people complaining about it. I'm surprised that such a large number of people dislike it. With auto climate the engine will come on if the windows are fogging up or if AC or heat need it to be on so zero issues from a comfort perspective.

I'm sure some vehicles implement it better than others but I'm driving an automatic Golf and it's fine. I'm never stuck at a roundabout or junction waiting to pull out because I know how to drive with the system in mind. Engine shuts off at 5kph, if I move off before stopping it comes back on. The ACC radar will restart the engine when the car in front moves off, in fact the radar detects two cars ahead so will restart before the car in front of me moves off. At a junction it will only shut off if I press the brake pedal for a full stop and keep my foot on it, a light pedal press just to slow/stop breifly when at a roundabout or junction will keep it on. If I move and stop, the engine will turn off if my foot is on the brake, if not it will idle for a bit longer before shutting off.

On a very rare occasion the engine will stop the moment a light goes green when I'm at the front but very quick to restart and move off. No slower than anyone in a manual. I'll often tap the pedal start the engine to be ready when I know my light is about to go green.

I often see complaints about wear and tear but the starter, battery and other components are all built with this in mind. Engineering Explained made a video on the subject, any idle longer than around 7 seconds will save fuel with an estimated saving of 4-8%. More importantly you're not pumping out fumes when sitting at a light. As someone living in a built up area who runs, cycles and goes on regular walks with the GF this is desperately needed.

Flinty997 · 29-12-2021 09:52AM

I suspect you are running a newish car where the lag is minimized. Though radar only helps if you are in a queue.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/do-stop-start-systems-really-save-fuel.html

They only got these high % running cars heavy on fuel. Logically if you are running a fuel efficient car, diesel etc. and are not in heavy traffic the saving is minimal.

On mine it cuts out doing a three point turn, reversing, if I stop for an instant rolling up to a roundabout or junction, if stop for a moment waiting to turn across or into traffic it cuts out. It's far too aggressive. I suspect because it's an early version of the system.

I suspect that all newish cars now are at least a light hybrid. So there will be no lag. So this problem will disappear as non hybrid (and especially) older cars fall out of use.

It's obviously much better for the local environment. No argument there. Though if you have a lot of stop start traffic, locally you've got a high volume of traffic any way.

Flinty997 · 29-12-2021 09:55AM

Feel I want to jump straight to an EV and avoid the whole issue though.

Eco Stop: a worthy attempt to reduce harmful emissions or a complete waste of time?

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