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Why do British people know so little of their colonial past when it's all available on Google?

  • 23-12-2021 5:41am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83,517 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Seeing as it's not part of the British school history curriculum why do so many British people not know about their colonial past when any fool with a laptop or phone can Google such history in seconds? I worked with people who claim to know nothing of Irish oppression until they arrived in Ireland (arrived in last 10 years) yet a 2 second search on Google would reveal it to them, do they have a selective view of history bred in to them from school age?



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭sportsfan90


    I guess if they taught it in their school curriculum there wouldn't be much time left for any other subjects.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 406 ✭✭The Ging and I


    I'm fed up asking the same question. Its either a government policy or just poor education.



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They do know their history. The shame makes them blank it out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 261 ✭✭BingCrosbee


    Their colonial past is all about plundering and treating the natives like slaves. It’s all coming home to roost now. Luton is a Muslim enclave now with their own religious police and no respect for the natives.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,530 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Why are you asking this on an Irish based forum OP? Try a British message board.

    Boards is only a predictable echo chamber for the replies you want to hear.



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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Why would they? I don't understand the Irish obsession with the British lack of knowledge of their history.

    Maybe it's because history is forced down the throats of Irish people, Everything is about history. Maybe it's hard to understand that other nationalities might not give a crap about history?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,922 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Every country focuses on it's own history. The schools have a few years & a few hours per week to focus on hundreds of years & thousands of events.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Simple: denial. Can't feel guilt, or require the need to reframe a "glorious" past, if you don't know of the dark side - or the cost of the former British Empire's success. I'd add a caveat to your statement that we're probably talking about white Britons? Cos I daresay any Englander of Carribbean or Indian descent would be well familiar with the hand of the empire from their (great)(grand)parents. See recent events in Bristol; whether the actions taken were justified or not, there's clearly a resting anger at glorying in or marking a repugnant past.

    The British psyche, especially since brexit, seems either ill equipped or hostile towards those conversations ... I guess it's tough for a former power to accept a diminished role in the world. To then also consider that power wasn't benevolent for its targets? Double shame. It's not that unique either: no different to France's own cultural struggle with its own ongoing colonial past, by way of a neighbouring example (though seem a little more keen to do something, as seen with the return of stolen cultural items). While America is decades away from even beginning that conversation.

    If you were on the receiving end of prejudice or subjugation, it's much easier to come to terms with your past - cos psychologically you have to. Same with "defeated" nations like Germany; you'll do well to find a German not understanding of their modern shames because they vowed Never Again. Colonialism is a muddier, murkier water that's easier to hide the crimes behind "Pax Britannica" or notions of a civilising hand in barbaric lands.



  • Administrators Posts: 14,396 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    If they don’t know about it, how would the think to Google it? Also, lots of people simply don’t care. They weren’t there, weren’t involved, so just live in the present. Not a bad way to live.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,706 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Some people don't know milk comes from cows never mind their colonial history.

    🙈🙉🙊



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    You can likewise ask why so many Irish people are obsessed with defining themselves as eternal victims of British colonialism. Sad really if you define your national identity by one means really.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,408 ✭✭✭fergiesfolly


    I like that the English ( and it is English. Scots know. Welsh know) don't know their history. Gives me a chance to explain their glorious past and the consequences of it.

    Yeah, great granddad might've fought Jerry in the Great War. But then he came to Ireland and massacred innocents.

    Doesn't be long knocking the jingoism out of them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    To expand on that, I wonder how many of them would be aware of how many Irish people took part (willingly) in the British colonial structure.


    History is complicated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    stupid question

    everything is available on google

    therefore they should know everything?

    How far back do you know Irish history, why did you stop there ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,227 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin


    To feel empathy with the trials of the people of the past and so provide perspective as to how good we have it today?

    To have awareness of how things have occurred before to help not repeat the same historical mistakes?

    To provide context for international geopolitical relations as to why certain conflicts have begun and are still ongoing?

    To be better at interrogating sources and questioning biases, easier spotting of fake news and propaganda?

    To enjoy some fantastic and moving human stories that form the rich tapestry of our collective past?


    There really are so many good reasons to explore and be aware of history.

    I must say I always have a slight suspicion of people who are dismissive of the importance of history - at best, it’s ignorant and perhaps a bit philistine. At worst it can actually be something quite insidious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,253 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Largely ignorance and the focus of their education system. An awful lot of Irish people are extremely ignorant of our own history and things we did overseas, and often dismiss it with an attitude of "Sure we only did it because of the Empire."



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Zaiden Straight Backbone


    In a lot of cases I don't think it's even ignorance, it's that they just don't care.

    They have that whole "Rule Britannia" mentality and are similar to the Yanks with their superiority complex.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,786 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Some people (not me) dont care, they are not interested.

    I like history, but I don't understand the obsession Irish people have with the Brits not knowing all their history.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭The Raging Bile Duct


    Most likely to do with the fact that we have been so directly impacted by their actions in a deeply traumatic way and the general British public wouldn't have a clue. It's only in the last couple of decades that we're not completely dependent on the whims and fancies of the UK for our economic health - don't get me wrong, we're still in for a bumpy ride with the fallout from Brexit but it's not as devastating as it would have been in times past. It's why I can't understand people advocating for an Irexit and throwing our lot in with the UK.



  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭HalfAndHalf


    How many Italian, French, Spanish, Norwegian, Danish, Swedish, Prussian, German, Japanese people do you know who are fully clued up on their colonial pasts?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,253 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    To be fair the Germans are pretty clued in on their history. Not really something to easily ignore.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,227 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin


    Yeah I get that, that’s fair enough - but it doesn’t mean that this stance they take should be free from derision

    It’s a bit like when you come across a grown adult who smugly declares “I never read” as if it’s something to be proud of. It’s like fair enough if you don’t like books but don’t be surprised if some people might think you come off as ignorant for that



  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭HalfAndHalf


    Agreed, but how many of those Germans know much about their Prussian past?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,354 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Why would they, if their heritage isn’t Prussian?



  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭HalfAndHalf




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    Everything is deemed“deeply traumatic” nowadays



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭blackbox


    ...for the same reason they know very little about British geography or British politics.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,266 ✭✭✭mattser


    3.....2.....1....



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭The Raging Bile Duct


    So the actions of the UK on this island were grrrrrand?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,660 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake




  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭HalfAndHalf




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    Did I say that?

    I am sure it wasn’t a lot of fun for the people at the time but that can be said for most countries. There is absolutely no benefit in feeling “traumatised” by past events that didn’t even affect the people living today directly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,767 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    There's a rose tinted nostalgic view of the empire that only concentrates on the perceived good I.e. bringing education, a legal system and infrastructure to countries that would never have it only for the good old empire. None of the horrors are mentioned, so complete ignorance on the impact the empire had on the nearest neighbours here, Kenya, most of the rest of Africa, Palestine etc.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83,517 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M




  • Registered Users Posts: 247 ✭✭Perseverance The Second


    I would imagine quite difficult to justify giving special attention to Ireland in colonial affairs when you consider the sheer number of different countries the Brit's invaded, pillaged and mucked up. Ireland is pretty tame when you compare it to the long term impact in regions such as the Middle East or India-Pakistan etc.

    Plenty of people are just ignorant of history as a whole. It's just that a lot of Ireland's cultural identity emphasises independence similar to how countries like Russia place a large emphasis on the Great Patriot War.

    You might experience some shock when you learn how ignorant lots of Spanish, Italians and Portugese people are about their own colonial histories. It's just that none get anywhere near the attention the Brits do for a whole variety of reasons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭The Raging Bile Duct


    Em, where did I say people show still be feeling traumatised by these events? They were events that were deeply traumatic at the time and shaped the country that we live in today. I'm not advocating gnashing and wailing because of the people who died in the famine. It would be great if the British public had a clue of the trauma inflicted on their nearest neighbour but that's never going to happen.



  • Posts: 533 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There is genuinely an issue amongst some people who’ll only ever see the Empire as positive. I’ve heard and read some truly bizarre takes on it.

    Unlike most European empires, their imperial system merely fizzled out. Most collapsed abruptly or their countries changed dramatically after WWII. There’s lot of the pomp and trappings of empire still baked into a lot of formal UK institutions. It never really had a day where it faced the reality and drew a line under the past and became a new, entirely modern Britain. So it’s difficult to split one from the other.

    It comes across if you try to, for example , suggest they give any of the plunder in the British Museum back… immediately 1001 patronising excuses.

    I think with the French, their imperial past doesn’t sit well with the revolution and their sense of being rebels against the establishment and so on, so they sort of seem to be able to draw a line under past in a different way. However, that can also to a bit of a deluded notion that it has nothing to do with them too though, but at least they are able to stand at a distance and be very openly critical of previous incarnations of France. You never really get that sense in the UK as it’s all one unbroken continuum.





  • I guess what relevance does it hold? Like what are you wishing for, they’ll read up on history and…? Are you expecting people from England to come over and personally apologise for their ancestors behaviour?

    i don’t know everything there is about Irish history, I’ve forgotten most of what they taught in school & haven’t much of an interest in studying it via Google either. Some people just don’t care. If you are a fan of history I’m sure you’d be interested in studying it or learning more, but if not you won’t. As for whether it should be taught in schools or not that’s not really my place to make an opinion but if I was to form one quickly just for the purpose of this reply it doesn’t really matter. It wouldn’t change our lives in any meaningful way so I can’t imagine why anyone could care less.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    But it also doesn’t make any difference at the end of the day. What’s done is done and no acknowledgment will change it.

    I might have misunderstood your original post then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭HalfAndHalf


    How many of them need to educate themselves according to your ‘so many’? 10%? 90%?

    And then what? What do you want them to do once however many people you think are oblivious to ‘their’ past have ‘educated themselves’?



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    On their history relating to Ireland?

    how well up on English history is the average Joe?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    It depends on the Brit (and they're usually English) you talk to.

    I have a friend from Manchester born to Indian parents and although she's proud to be British, she's very much aware of the problems caused by the UK. I have met middle-class people from the Home Counties who have little idea of what goes on in other parts of England, let alone their history. I'll never forget one who 'forgave' me for the IRA but didn't know who the UVF/LVF were and then said why should she when it was all 'foreign' anyway. Frankly, if there were a civil war in my country, I'd want to know what it was about but it seems like lots of English people aren't bothered.

    In the case of Spaniards, some have this idea that they were a benevolent, civilising force while others are aware of what they did but don't want to talk about it. They do learn about their history but there is still quite a bit of resistance to acknowledging it. The Mexican president has recently invited Spaniards to apologise and he's been met with anger and ridicule.

    However, the Spanish civil war was quite divisive and polarised, as was the dictatorship, which still has open wounds, so Spaniards tend to be more ready to criticse officialdom and traditional institutions. They are also more aware of separatist movements and different identitiea within their borders, although they can be quite dismissive. Spaniards are also quick to play the victim and lament their position, something that doesn't really work if you still think of yourself as a glorious former empire.

    The Japanese have a war memorial dedicated to all the 'gods' who died fighting for the country and a museum that fimishes their actions. While not the entire population, officially, they still have a way to go.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Pretty sure the English learn all about the English civil war in school. Nothing to do with northern Ireland though



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,227 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin


    It holds quite a lot of relevance to quite a lot of things, international relations in particular.

    Most recently look at the absolute embarrassment their politicians made of themselves in relation to their rhetoric and negotiations surrounding Brexit and the border.

    Priti Patel announcing that Britain should cut off food supplies being shipped into Ireland to starve us out, clearly being ignorant of the historical context of this.

    The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland not being aware/understanding of the fact that catholics/nationalists don’t ever vote for unionist parties and vice versa.

    There are plenty of other examples down the years and it all derives from their pig ignorance of their own history.



  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭HalfAndHalf


    So you class some comments made by U.K. politicians as applying to an entire population of a country! Wow!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,451 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    "Luton is a Muslim enclave now with their own religious police and no respect for the natives."


    Bullshit, and you know it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭thefallingman


    Like the Germans and the Nazis, don’t mention the war. after ww2 they blew up all of hitlers homes and hideaways to try and erase it from history, instead of leaving it for future generations to learn from and never repeat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭VillageIdiot71


    Indeed, and there's a high degree of myth in that traditional presentation of Irish history. So it's nearly like asking "why isn't the whole world woke to the fact that we're the Most Oppressed People Ever".

    About 500 people died in the Easter 1916 rising, between civilians, rebels and soldiers. In the same year, 4,000 people died serving in Irish units on the Somme. You wouldn't have picked that up from the version of Irish history I was taught at school - so you could well have asked me a few years ago "why do you know so little about the Irish involvement in WWI"?

    So I think, given that life works best when you sort out your own head before criticising others, that the main answer to the OP is "because our traditional historical narrative is politically baised, and closed to other people - particularly British people".



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