Who Watches the Watchmen (Our Chit Chat Thread)

scwazrh · 20-12-2021 1:35am

we are definitely in the insanity stage of watch collecting now.

fulladapipes · 22-12-2021 6:59pm

This is something from one of my student's submissions - it's on fashion, which I know lighting about, but I thought it would be interesting to overlay watches instead of fashion brands. Any starters?

Cyclingtourist · 22-12-2021 7:36pm

I find fashion fascinating but essentially it's 90% marketing.

njburke · 22-12-2021 9:35pm

How are you going to fit Seiko in? They have a range that covers from Blanchy up to Fitz.

njburke · 22-12-2021 9:35pm

Wibbs · 22-12-2021 9:44pm

The other aspect is perception based on time based trends. Cartier would be a top of the line luxury jewellery brand, but at the moment you'd have to sell off a shoebox full of solid gold ones to buy a steel Rolex Sub. Which was a mid tier tool watch the same price as other mid tier tool watches. They're now firmly in the aspirational bracket, with a current madness trend on top which placed them in the supreme bracket. Supreme brands Patek and AP weren't even on the radar ten years ago, but now they are as more people decided to put their money into them, so in some senses I would say they've dropped into aspirational. IWC went from aspirational to "who?" near overnight. Breitling ditto. Panerai are going a similar way. TAG Heuer were once squarely in the premium bracket and now they're a wrist faux pas. Well looking back to the 90's, even the early 00's *screen quivers, harps play* when they were at their height the watch hobbyists always looked down on them. What I think happened is as the hobby went mainstream more newbies got into the hobby and picked up that scorn for TAG from the old farts and it spread. Omega have remained very consistent and for a long time too. Longines were huge pre the 1950's but were up and down, mostly the latter since then and have come back to relevance by nicking their pre 50's hits and remaking them for current fashions. They're like the watch equivalent of the Rolling Stones. People want to hear the hits. Zenith were another huge brand but went downhill, tried to bump up their prices and status but failed.

Time · 22-12-2021 10:19pm

you’ve hit the nail on the head perfectly Wibbs

893bet · 23-12-2021 12:30pm

I assume ye all got Christmas cards from Rolex?

Fitz II · 23-12-2021 3:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118365343#Comment_118365343

I got one this morning

banie01 · 23-12-2021 5:48pm

Happy Christmas folks!

If there's a watch under the tree for anyone? May it be a grail or become one 😉

Here's to a better '22, one with plenty more watches, chat and craic👍

893bet · 24-12-2021 1:04am

May be part of the script. Meh. If they got robbed they deserve it.

scwazrh · 24-12-2021 10:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118368392#Comment_118368392

Same as that I stopped watching them after their PR stunt but I seen about their robbery on Instagram.Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s another stunt tbh.Travelling with $1m in what is as good as cash is crazy .You would think for trades of that value it would be done in a Secure location.

Fitz II · 24-12-2021 11:40am

I stopped watching TPG cause if got very boring after the stunt. But this is no supprise, they were warned a lot by Paul Thorpe to increase security and stop taking chances.

Cyclingtourist · 24-12-2021 11:58am

The Cardashians.

cnocbui · 24-12-2021 12:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349765#Comment_118349765

I'd rather buy more Bitcoin, but then I have no soul.

Fitz II · 25-12-2021 9:41pm

Happy Christmas friends. Hope your having a restful day.

Cyclingtourist · 27-12-2021 12:41pm

For those who like their watch bracelets spotless.

Lidl are selling ultrasonic cleaner machines for €25 from Thursday 30th.

Lorddrakul · 28-12-2021 4:10pm

Interesting take on the issue of fake watches here...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/la-super-rich-reach-for-fake-rolexes-after-spate-of-burglaries-cmgkqlnhb

Cyclingtourist · 28-12-2021 5:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118382045#Comment_118382045

“This guy will take a $200,000 Rolex and copy it, using stainless steel and other metals, so it looks like the original but costs maybe $2,000 to $3,000 per watch,”

They're paying over retail even for the fakes. That 'artisan' in central London is probably importing them from China.

Thirdfox · 28-12-2021 5:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118377425#Comment_118377425

Just remember to never put in a mechanical watch into those cleaners (water resistance should be fine but the shock would probably destroy or is highly likely to damage a mechanical movement, even if not immediately noticeable).

I use an ultrasonic cleaner for my wife's jewellery - especially silver that has tarnished - put in some baking soda and a bit of tinfoil and the tarnish will be chemically moved (so no silver lost) from the silver to the aluminium foil. Good for diamonds too - but no emeralds - natural emeralds almost always have cracks in them so the ultrasonic cleaner is likely to split apart emeralds (would be a costly mistake to make!)

Wibbs · 28-12-2021 6:12pm

+1000 on never putting a mechanical or quartz for tha matter into an ultrasonic cleaner. It'll almost certainly feck it up. They're great for cleaning bracelets and the amount of goo that will come out of one might shock some.

Wibbs · 28-12-2021 6:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118382350#Comment_118382350

Having seen some scarily accurate fakes readied up by those into that from parts they buy online that cost 500-1000 all in quid he's slapping on a decent profit alright.

Cienciano · 29-12-2021 11:34pm

So, why the hell is this board under the category "Science, Health & Environment"?

Cyclingtourist · 29-12-2021 11:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118388691#Comment_118388691

Because the measurement of time is a scientific endeavour and collecting watches is a healthy hobby provided it isn't taken too seriously.

Cienciano · 29-12-2021 11:56pm

The sub is more about the fashion/hobby part than measurement of time. I mean, it would be like saying a jewellery board should be in the geology section. Anyway, I think there was issues with the category before so probably can fall between a few boards.

scwazrh · 30-12-2021 3:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118388811#Comment_118388811

This is definitely science . I can tolerate my wife and kids calling me a watch nerd but a fashion nerd would be a step too far .

Also considering I put more effort into choosing my watch for the day than my clothes for the day proves how little I know or care about fashion

NIMAN · 31-12-2021 10:16am

Question re: import duties.

Do they apply to a family member giving you a watch, if its being sent from abroad?

I appreciate Customs might have their own opinion of a watch coming into the country, but what if a brother wanted to send me his own watch from the US, and just posted it to me? Could that still incur charges?

893bet · 31-12-2021 12:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118394810#Comment_118394810

Yes. It’s import duties rather than “sales” duties.

also in the above scenario with no sales docket it will be up to them to decide the “value” and how much you have to pay I believe.

Blanchy90 · 31-12-2021 12:41pm

Great news everyone I'm now an affiliate of Meranom 😎 if anyone is looking to get a Vostok let me know

Roycropper63 · 31-12-2021 2:53pm

Does a watch bought from say amazon.de incur any charges on arrival?

Happy new year to all.¿...

micks_address · 31-12-2021 2:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396052#Comment_118396052

Germany is in the eu so no import fees on items to Ireland

scwazrh · 31-12-2021 5:08pm

May I suggest that ye take 3 and half mins to watch what has to be one of the most aesthetically pleasing YouTube videos of all time.

https://youtu.be/LcXQpnd-jQI

dakar · 31-12-2021 5:24pm

I know every second comment on the video is ‘Holy crap the GS Spring Drive is amazing’, but holy crap that GS Spring Drive is amazing…

Cyclingtourist · 31-12-2021 5:26pm

You can see the jitter on most of those 'sweep' second hands but then who in real life looks at a watch using a macro lens while listening to not very good music?

Fitz II · 31-12-2021 5:26pm

Lovely Vid, great macro work

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396766#Comment_118396766

Yes if your eyes are marco lenses then they are great, however my human eyes see only boring polished cases and dreary designs. Everyone loves to praise GS but nobody loves to buy em.

dakar · 31-12-2021 5:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396777#Comment_118396777

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396778#Comment_118396778

Ah yeah, I don’t really want one, but man, they’re smooth.

scwazrh · 31-12-2021 5:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396777#Comment_118396777

I went into weirs on Tuesday and tried on a GS .I was expecting so much and left disappointed.To my eye there is nothing exceptional with the finish and didn’t feel any better in the hand than an omega or Tudor . It was one of the cheaper 9F movements but I believe all GS are finished to the same standard.

893bet · 31-12-2021 6:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396766#Comment_118396766

Looks like the hand wasn’t moving and the case was.

After been wearing a 2 hander for two weeks.

I miss a second hand.

Wibbs · 31-12-2021 9:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396867#Comment_118396867

IMHO the problem GS has is that they went for the boring Japanese middle manager conservative look(who would be a big market domestically for them). Now a brand like Rolex can afford to stay deeply conservative, because that's their market and they have an unassailable loyalty base that goes back 40 years with the same designs. Seiko simply can't do that, so they look like not quite there knockoffs. Their range looks like what an AI would come up with after being shown a load of mid tier Swiss watches. Thei diver GS looks like a generic diver Rolex with an aftermarket Seiko handset.

Seiko should have gone full Japanese cutting edge wacky and at that level of finishing and tech. To pound the car analogy for the umpteenth time Rolex are Mercedes, Seiko GS are Lexus. Technically the Lexuseseses are the superior car, but given a choice people will buy the Merc, because the Lexus looks like and is a knockoff aping the German car. Seiko should have gone something like full Civic Type R or Lexus LFA.

Fitz II · 31-12-2021 9:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396867#Comment_118396867

100% this, I went into weirs money clutched in my little hands and tried on the snowflake....surely a watch so highly praised must be exceptional for a discerning collector like me...nope, instant Meah, boring, crap lightweight bracelets, case design from the 70's, top heavy and totally indistinguishable from any other Seiko for a 10th of the cost from wrist distance. This is why the GS crowd are so keen to immediately go to the macro finishing, cause there is nothing else. Every time I will have a watch that actually looks good in hand, and has a less than atomically perfect finish, than one with a great finish that looks like like crap.

Also Springdrive when you think about it is just quartz. Sure the quartz mechanism is powered via mechanically generated energy (seiko kenetic is still quartz), but just because you then decouple both mechanisms via a magnetic bridge, doesn't mean that its not just a mechaquartz that actually less accurate than a regular quartz.. Its like the i3 with the little twin stroke engine to generate power as a range extender. Sure the petrol never directly powers the wheels but its still not a electric car....cause guess what buddy you put petrol into it. If there is a quartz crystal in yer watch its a quartz watch.

I once or twice made my views known on Facebook watch groups....I am still healing from the wounds. Grand Seiko for me is a total con job, and the fawning of the watch media over them is bilious tripe. Not once have I seen any cogent argument, picture or held a GS that changed my mind. And once you get into the 12k plus chrono abominations....I am totally out.

Fitz II · 31-12-2021 9:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118397047#Comment_118397047

You put the watch on a turntable cause the camera is stationary to get a nice macro,what you see is the smoothness of the turntable. If the watch is running and you set the turntable 60 sec counterclockwise the second hand stays stationary....a cool effect. Run it CW and you run twice as fast, again a cool effect. More classy to hack the watch and get a more realistic movement of the second hand but only for short shots.

Wibbs · 01-01-2022 11:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118397692#Comment_118397692

case design from the 70's,

Very true, but to be fair Fitz again that's them trying to ape the conservative Swiss stuff. Pretty much all the currently highly sought after Swiss brand models are 70's even 60's designs and not just in cases. PP Nautilus, AP Royal oak, all Rolex, Omega Speedies. The Germans like A Lange & Sohne are about the only ones bucking that trend with new designs.

The discerning collectors of the rise in popularity of the hobby over last ten years are incredibly conservative and the Swiss brands reflect that or they know they won't sell their wares. Rolex buyers were always conservative. Their Oysterquartz produced at crazy expense was by a goodly margin their most innovative and best finished movement of 20th century Rolex production and even at the height of quartz popularity they were a hard sell. Their Cosmograph/Daytona was such a hard sell AD's were giving them away as part of other deals and by the early 70's the rest were sold off to their own people in the trade for 30-40 quid a pop. AP's first series Royal Oak took an age to sell off their first 1000 pieces and they had to add gold and two tone models to the mix to keep them in the "luxury" game.

A vid came up on my youtube feed this morning and I thought of what you were saying about watch youtubers and how there's only so many ways to skin an anorexic cat. The title was along the lines of "Rolex predictions for 2022". There would be little point clicking on it. My prediction? They'll do absolutely feck all. Slight colour change on a dial or bezel, restart production on some model or other that's been around since the egg and a model in gold that hasn't been available in gold for three years. Now that would get the hardcore fans pulling the skeletons out of themselves with the shock, but it's very thin gruel.

To beat the car analogy to a bloody pulp, again: 😁 If the Swiss luxury watch brands were cars they would have never stopped selling MGBs. So it's not too much of a surprise that Seiko are trying to flog Mx-5's to get a piece of that action(though if GS were an MX-5 they'd be a lot better).

Cyclingtourist · 01-01-2022 12:20pm

I'm going to start introducing bicycle analogies on here, for the sake of gyroscopic balance.

blue5000 · 01-01-2022 4:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396778#Comment_118396778

but then who in real life looks at a watch using a macro lens

Guilty yer honner. happy new year everyone.

Cienciano · 01-01-2022 4:33pm

Thinking of buying a vostok and modding it to look like a grand seiko

893bet · 01-01-2022 4:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118400963#Comment_118400963

Also guilty. Fine finishing is what separates brands. And if I can spending 4 and 5 figures on a watch then it better be as close to flawless as possible to the naked eye and under lens.

njburke · 01-01-2022 4:59pm

Fitz,I can't let the "Spring Drive is just another quartz" be presented as a statement of fact rather than opinion.

Seiko holds 230 Patents on Spring drive IP, that's a lot of innovation for just another quartz.

One of the things I like about Spring Drive is that it hasn't been replicated by the Chinese fakers. It's like it's hard to make a spring drive watch so the fakers spend their efforts on the low hanging fruit that is almost any swiss luxury mechanical.

As for the Grand Seiko con job, I've fallen for it, twice, there's another in the post to me.

Cienciano · 01-01-2022 5:10pm

I like the spring drive, hi beat and quartz. All 3 have their appeal

Fitz II · 01-01-2022 5:11pm

**** Off topic Pedant alert ****

Gyroscopic effects dont balance a bicycle, its the front loaded steering geometry and the caster effect. Gyroscopic effects are only used to steer when riding no hands. But without hands it makes a poor watch analogy 🤣

**** Pedant alert over ****

Fine finishing is nice to have but it has to be in combination with other good aspects of a watch. Precious materials, great design, classic looks, wearability etc. GS just leans into Macro finishing immediately cause it aint go nowever else to go.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401251#Comment_118401251

No its not just another quartz....its sneaky quartz 😁. I dont care how many patients they have (this is always pulled out as somehow proof its inovative, but thats not the question at hand. I am sure all watchmakers have 1000's of patents on various design aspects) Its a watch who's timekeeping is regulated by a quartz crystal. You can dress that up all you want, and hey there it absolutely nothing wrong with a quartz watch, but its GS that push this as a innovation of the mechanical rather than a degradation of the quartz. Spring drive is a solution to a problem nobody was asking.

scwazrh · 01-01-2022 5:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401251#Comment_118401251

Have you had a GS quartz ?I wonder is the finishing a higher quality on the pricier watches ?

Who Watches the Watchmen (Our Chit Chat Thread)

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