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Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

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  • Registered Users Posts: 343 ✭✭Shilock


    I can identify with the opposite, a friend of mine went for HSCT treatment for multiple sclerosis and the consultant told him not to get vaccinated before he comes over as it will interfere with the treatment and recovery. But people here who are experts will say that if a consultant from Ireland said he should take the vaccine before his HSCT treatment, therefore he should.

    Oh yeah it's 100%, luckily I got it into the deltoid muscle, unlucky for anyone who got it into a blood vessel or a leaky shallow jab or was jabbed like a calf by someone who hasn't a clue what they're doing.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How is it voluntary if not taking it means being unable to take part fully in society? And even taking it means to show a pass everywhere, wear a mask everywhere, and stay 2 metres apart from others everywhere. But you have said that you believe all of the restrictions will go in spring. Varadkar is now talking about years and 'periods of freedom'.


    The question is, and has always been, is all of this proportionate?



  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Does the info you found that "The reports concern children 12 to 16 years old, whose symptoms occurred one to two months after vaccination" contradict @astrofool 's claim that "that any and all symptoms from every vaccine ever has been known within weeks of taking the vaccine"

    The only reason I raised Pandemrix is because I was under the impression that it was an evidence that astrofool claiming covid vaccines are clearly safe because not merely most, but "any and all'' symptoms show within weeks.

    I guess one to two months is 4 - 8 weeks, but how many weeks are we talking about?

    And in the info you found says "the symptoms were later to be found to be compatible with narcolepsy" - how much later was that? Within weeks as astrofool would have us believe? Well at a minimum it was about 44 weeks to 27 August 2010 when the "the European Medicines Agency announced that the agency's Committee for Medicinal Products for Human Use would be launching a review of Pandemrix in light of the "limited number of cases" reported in Finland and Sweden, so as to "determine whether there is evidence for a causal association"

    As @Dohnjoe might say, it is "Interesting how context works."



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,673 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    They should do whatever the consultant who has their full medical history available says.

    However, there is very few scenarios where the COVID vaccines aren't recommended due to their excellent safety profile.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,673 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I would have "weeks" as being anywhere from 1-9, any more than that and I, personally would revert to months (again 1-9 before falling back to years).

    Either way, we're well beyond the territory where any previous issues have ever been found.

    And it is now funny that you are trying to argue context like some sort of "gotcha" moment. Get your second shot and let those who have to live with you have a bit of normality! :)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,673 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Taking part in society is also voluntary... (up to the point of committing crimes).

    The measures have been proportionate for a pandemic, when the pandemic is over, they will no longer be proportionate and will be stopped.

    The virus isn't endemic yet, we are verifiably still in a pandemic (hopefully omicron will change that).



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,557 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Do you drive?

    If you do drive then the law states you must carry your pass (licence) with you.

    You must wear a seat belt, you must follow road signs/markings, you must stop at red lights, you must stick to a speed limit.

    Not doing any of these things means your right to drive can and will be taken away.

    Are these rules proportionate?


    If yes then why?

    If not then why not?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,988 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    You brought up this Pandemrix thing to support a concern you have about rapidly deployed vaccines and potential longer-term effects, yet in another post you support the rollout/timeframe of the Covid vaccines.

    Doesn't that strike you as contradictory?

    In another post you pose that these vaccines are "at best pretty rubbish vaccines and at worst dangerous".



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    He was also claiming a few posts back that the was a huge amount of adverse reactions caused by the vaccines that were out of proportion with other drugs.

    Seems to have given up on that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    It's really great to see US culture war bullsh!t copied and pasted into Irish discussions. Really illuminating.



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  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Get your second shot and let those who have to live with you have a bit of normality! :)

    My wife would agree with you, even if I don't!



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    So then you can't provide any actual examples and you can't point to anyone who always actually providing any evidence.

    Cool.



  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭hometruths


    I would have "weeks" as being anywhere from 1-9, any more than that and I, personally would revert to months (again 1-9 before falling back to years).

    Either way, we're well beyond the territory where any previous issues have ever been found.

    If "any and all" symptoms are discovered within 9 weeks well then that's great if you know what they are symptomatic of.

    But if any of those "symptoms were later to be found to be compatible" with something serious, the concept of later is quite significant.

    And we're nowhere near beyond the territory of being confident that all issues have been found as far as 5 year olds are concerned. As the parent of a 5 year old, that's my most pressing concern, not whether or not I get my second jab.

    Again, as @Dohnjoe might say, context is everything.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    For Irish people who are conservative the conservative US media is the only thing available to them? That, and Ireland's best conservative news station: Sky News Australia.


    If people are politically homeless in a country then what are they supposed to do? I have nothing in common with any of the identical political parties in Ireland, so I have to look for conservative news in/from other countries.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You really think they're proportionate? For most people the survival rate is 99.97%. Yes, there's the issue of spread, but people are forced to wear masks everywhere, show a cert almost everywhere, bombarded with propaganda 24/7, and for months couldn't go further than 5km from their own home.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    lol.

    So because there's no Irish version of Fox News, people need to go to foreign websites notorious for bullshit to confirm their views.

    Those poor poor people.


    Weird how "conservative" these days seems to overlap a lot with "conspiracy bullshit."



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,673 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    You should be focusing more on yourself then 5 year old's, you are at much much greater risk of COVID than your 5 year old.

    However, the trials for the 5-11 year old age group have already been over for a few months and since then millions of injections have been doled out without any reported side effects. So we're past the point at which any concerning symptoms would have arisen and millions more have been vaccinated since.

    And all this is neglecting that the virus is at least an order of magnitude riskier for that group and orders of magnitude riskier for older groups.

    I think with all this digging into vaccines and veering off into different tangents every time that you have completely lost the context anyway.

    Get vaccinated yourself, get the second dose, worry about your 5 year old next year as more data becomes available, don't have the kid have to explain why they can't go certain places or go there anyway without you (or have you sneak in).



  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭hometruths


    However, the trials for the 5-11 year old age group have already been over for a few months and since then millions of injections have been doled out without any reported side effects. So we're past the point at which any concerning symptoms would have arisen and millions more have been vaccinated since

    Interestingly NIAC don't sound so confident:

    The safety of Comirnaty 10 micrograms was evaluated in a placebo- controlled trial of 2, 218 children aged 5 to 11 years 95% of whom had at least three months follow up after the second dose. An additional safety group of 2,379 children (1,591 Comirnaty 10 micrograms and 788 placebo) had less than one month follow up. Safety evaluation is ongoing with follow up for 2 years.

    The safety evaluation is still ongoing for 2 years. i.e it's not over. Admittedly that's just the trial. As you say millions of injections have since been doled out. NIAC address that too:

    More than four million first doses and approximately 450,000 second doses have been given to children in this age group in the US. No immediate safety issues have been notified but follow up time has been short. 

    Again NIAC don't seem to share your confidence that we're past the point at which any concerning symptoms would have arisen.

    I've no doubt you are expressing your opinion in good faith, but I'm sure you'll understand my inclination to trust the experts.

    https://rcpi-live-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/NIAC-Recommendations-on-COVID-19-vaccination-for-children-aged-5-to-11-years.pdf



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,988 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Okay, you trust the experts, but you've only had one shot, any reason you aren't fully vaccinated?

    Again, your position seems confusing. On the one hand the vaccines are "dangerous" on the other you trust the experts.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As I pointed out earlier, the odds of ending up with long COVID are far greater than any proof you've provided of death or serious side effects from vaccines.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I have no opinion on the vaccines. I haven't said anything about side effects or deaths from them. People are free to choose to take them. It's none of my business. It has been said that they have saved many lives, which is obviously a good thing.


    What's the difference between long covid and post-viral syndrome in the case of other viruses?


    Anything to this: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/16/half-britons-suffering-long-covid-might-not-actually-have/



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    WTF is 'conservative news'?

    News is the reporting of fact. Fact is neither conservative nor progressive.

    I suggest you try to use logic and persuasion if you wish to move people's opinions closer to your own. Beware though: engaging in an actual conversation has the danger that your views may shift also.



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    So you see the medical folks taking an incredibly cautious and safety-conscious approach, and interpret it as a danger sign. I think that's genuinely interesting. You are primed to see the risk, and you see it. I expect people in medicine to be incredibly cautious, and that's what I see. I'm not suggesting one of us is 'better', but you can see how a difference in psychological approach here has us seeing different things based on the same set of facts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,673 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Safety evaluations never really stop, approved medicines are constantly monitored in the longer term (though this mostly becomes about ensuring the consistency of the medicine in the longer term).

    I don't think there is any "sound so confident" in what NIAC has said, they are stating facts, which is good, there is no emotion being involved in the statement and nothing is being hidden (and again, with millions of injections given and no issues found, this will become moot very soon), but I don't expect the same demand among 5-11 year olds as was seen in the older groups (I think it'll hit about 50% uptake).

    But again, you are weighing all this against a highly transmissible novel virus which does cause mild-severe symptoms including death, there is 0 cases where the virus is preferable to the vaccine (even if there is a bunch of "natural immunity" loons lurking about). If you were offered either a syringe of the virus, or the vaccine, which would you take?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Fox is conservative news. Sky News Australia (the night-time programmes) is conservative news. Ben Shapiro, Peter Hitchens, Talk Radio, The Telegraph (kind of), Glenn Beck et al. The GOP is a conservative party.


    And there's always bias on news programmes (on all sides).


    I agree that conversation is a good thing, but most people are set in their views nowadays.


    I've gone a bit odd topic, but, based on the results of recent referenda, around a third of the Irish population is politically homeless and has no voice in the media. That's a problem in a democracy. A third of the popular is disenfranchised. Just think about that for a second. It's no wonder a lot of Irish people go outside of Ireland to get their news. They've no other choice if they want news (or maybe current affairs programmes would be more accurate) from a conservative perspective.



  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Offered a syringe of virus vs vaccine?

    its a bit ridiculous because it would never be a choice I’d have to make but I’ll answer it nonetheless.

    for me personally, I’d take the vaccine.

    for my 5 year old it would be the virus.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,673 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    It's the effective choice that is happening as transmission rates go through the roof.

    Interesting answer on the 5 year old, even if you knew the virus was at least 10 times more dangerous (which all the studies have shown it to be at least) would that still be your answer?



  • Registered Users Posts: 343 ✭✭Shilock


    I've lot's of evidence from both sides of the discussion, unlike you I don't just believe everything on one side because all the mainstream media say's so. And I don't believe everything from other sources either. But I've a lot of facts are available from both sides to make my own mind up.

    You sound like you're being brain washed by the mainstream media and you have openly shot down any opposition to what you're lead to believe. I don't know if it's due to fear of the other side being right and you're cognitively impaired through the constant advertising and public health awareness of all things covid.

    Do you honestly believe that all they're telling us is the truth...I don't

    You keep on saying that the vaccines are safe, since when did people feel like they're absolutely shattered and freezing with the cold after a vaccine. I've had a flu shot every year for the last 5 year's as I get it for free and it's to protect myself and others. Not once have I felt as bad as after the covid shots. Not even a hot bath would warm me up.

    Yes I am a bit sceptical and there's a bit of fear of have I done the wrong thing. I'm not denying that.

    For all we know Mob we could have repercussions in a few years, months even who knows ?

    We just went out willy nilly and took the shot.... we're probably part of the biggest experiment of all time.

    And like the pictures of the mice saying, I'm not taking that shot until it's tested on humans....it could come back to bite me..

    My choice and if I did the wrong thing I'll be saying FFS those so called tin foil hat people we're right AGAIN



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Again, all time wasting waffle.

    I asked you to provide good reason to think that the vaccines have any more side effects than any other medicine.

    The best you can do it point to conspiracy theorist grifter types and make vague open ended statements.

    Because your believes aren't true and they aren't based on anything.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    But you do have an opinion on vaccines. You aren't challenging any of your conspiracy pals on their lies and misinformation here. You keep jumping in to support them.

    You've been asked many times if you believe the conspiracy claims, but you keep giving this vague nonanswer.

    Because disagreeing with other conspiracy theorists is forbidden.



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