Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

Shilock · 24-12-2021 2:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118368643#Comment_118368643

I sense the fear in you, you're not one bit coherent in responding to my or any other post's. You're far too afraid or unable to do your own research and you're expecting others to show you links.... and not one of them are good enough.

You definitely don't have an open mind, and I'd say you're susceptible to Cognitive dissonance .

Are you absolutely 100% sure that the vaccines are 100% , because you don't deviate from your position..

hometruths · 24-12-2021 2:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118369712#Comment_118369712

But NIAC don't say that anywhere, I'm going to do what you usually do and ask for proof of this

No NIAC don't definitively say that, they lay out the info, and stress the importance of providing the imfo to parents so they can make the decision for themselves.

So whilst I can't show you proof of something I am quite happy happy to explain why I personally arrived at the conclusion.

It is simply a question of weighing up the benefits of vaccination versus the risks obviously.

The obvious benefit is protection against COVID. But it is not immunity, it is protection against severe outcomes of COVID.

NIAC state that in the overwhelming majority is the impact is mild.:

The overwhelming majority of children with SARS-CoV-2 infection experience a mild self-limited illness. The severity of illness, even in those hospitalised, is generally less than adults.

In protecting against severe outcomes, it can be taken that severe means hospitalisation. NIAC state that:

In Ireland, between March 2020 to November 2021, 212 hospitalised children, aged 5 - 11 years, were SARSCoV-2 PCR positive.

Not all 212 cases in the total period were hospitalised because of covid, and during the Alpha strain "Hospitalisation rates were higher because any child diagnosed with SARSCoV-2 infection was hospitalised regardless of symptom severity"

Leaving those two facts aside 212 cases represents about 0.0035% of all Covid cases in that time.

The benefit of vaccination is to reduce the chances of her having a sever outcome. But she is overwhelmingly likely to have a mild illness if she contracts covid, and far all I now she has already done so. That seems like an acceptable risk to me. I don't see the need to vaccinate against that sort of risk.

The benefits of vaccination are pretty clear. The risks of vaccination are a lot less clear. There maybe zero risk, it may be higher, who knows? NIAC certainly doesn't.

"the study size did not allow for detection of rare or very rare adverse events"

No immediate safety issues have been notified but follow up time has been short.

the study size was too small to detect this rare event

Etc etc

King Mob · 24-12-2021 2:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118369717#Comment_118369717

But I do my own research. I don't just read twitter.

I do also have an open mind. I don't just believe everything I'm told without question

And 100% safe? 100% effective? I've claimed neither of these things. All medicines come with risk. No medicines are 100% effective.

Why are you claiming that my position is something it's not?

Is it not bad enough you aren't being honest about your own beliefs?

hometruths · 24-12-2021 3:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118369712#Comment_118369712

It would also be good for you to acknowledge the misinformation you posted as mentioned by King mob, if you are actually posting in good faith.

King mob has a habit of deliberately misrepresenting posters and then accusing them of lying, which is one of the reasons he’s on ignore.

if you quote whatever post you took issue with I’ll happily address your concerns.

Shilock · 24-12-2021 3:47pm

You're ofiscating the truth again and I admire your ability to defend your corner. If I needed a barrister I'd much prefer to have someone like you than someone who's going to give in, I call a spade a spade and I respect your position King Mob.

I'm definitely not going to take the booster supposedly now they could only offer up to ten weeks protection from omnicron. For a healthy person like myself I think I'll hedge my bets and let my imunity work it's magic. There's been a lot of twoing and frowing here and we all have a different opinion that's what I got out of the discussion.

I wish you and your loved one's a happy Christmas king Mob and that's sincere.

I'm going to leave the thread and get away from conspiracy theories as I get a bit wound up and, thanks for the challenge of sharing different view's etc . You're tough I like that , Enjoy the festivities....

PintOfView · 24-12-2021 4:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118369283#Comment_118369283

Don't mean to butt in on your discussion, but the following is an extract from this page (Diagnosis and Management of Myocarditis in Children) from the American Heart Association ...

Causes

Acute myocarditis commonly has an infectious cause (Table I in the Data Supplement), with viral causes being the most prevalent. Specific viral causes have been shown by polymerase chain reaction (PCR) analysis of myocardial tissue and have demonstrated that the prevalence of specific viruses has shifted over time from predominantly adenovirus and enteroviruses to parvovirus B19 and human herpesvirus 6 (10,11). Despite this shift, a diverse array of infectious (Table I in the Data Supplement) and noninfectious (Table II in the Data Supplement) causes of myocarditis remains. More recently, during the coronavirus disease-19 (COVID) pandemic, a novel form of shock with ventricular dysfunction emerged in children and is attributed to severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (12,13). It is called multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children and likely involves inflammation of the heart and vasculature during or after the active infectious phase. Signs of myocardial inflammation and viral nucleic acid have been observed in autopsy cases (14,15).

So it seems that Covid can be a contributor to myocarditis in children.

Also, here is another quote from this page (https://www.myocarditisfoundation.org/covid-19-myocarditis-in-children/) ...

Myocarditis is uncommon in children but occurs more commonly among those with COVID-19. In a recent study published in the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report from the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), only 86 children <16 years of age were diagnosed with myocarditis among nearly 65,000 (0.133%) children with COVID-19. During the same time period (March 2020-January 2021), 132 out of nearly 4 million children without COVID-19 developed myocarditis. Although the overall risk was low, the data translate to a risk of myocarditis that is more than 30 times higher among COVID-19 patients.

They're saying that the risk of myocarditis in children (<16) is "more than 30 times higher among Covid-19 patients".

In view of this it might be worth looking again at the relative risk of myocarditis from the vaccine vs from Covid itself!!

PintOfView · 24-12-2021 4:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118369047#Comment_118369047

I said this

Do you believe that excess deaths in the US were 700,000 from March 2020 to June 2021?

Does it matter whether they tested positive or not, they're dead regardless. And is it not pretty obvious these extra 700,000 people died from Covid? See this CDC page for more info (see the graph way down the page)

To which you replied ...

"if the data shows that, then so be it

Of course it matters how they died, if they didnt die of COVID, but by other means then using that number inflates the narrative of a so called pandemic"

What do you mean by "if they didnt die of COVID, but by other means ..." ?? Why else would they have died? Do you think the medical profession are killing people in the US, or something? You're not making much sense, to me at least!!

PintOfView · 24-12-2021 4:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118369075#Comment_118369075

"some people wouldnt know tyranny if it covered their faces, locked them in their homes, enacted the biggest wealth transfer in history, censored them, made them show papers and force medicated them"

That's a pretty far out interpretation of what has happened in the past couple of years. I think you are completely wrong in your thinking, and have been taken in by stuff you read on the internet that is mostly nonsense.

Have you ever considered that there is actually a real pandemic, and a real virus in circulation?

PintOfView · 24-12-2021 4:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118369125#Comment_118369125

"off to celebrate Christmas with my family

Happy Christmas to all you miserable gits on here apart from the critical thinkers

Before we close 2021

Pandemic artificially created

Lockdowns ineffective

Masks ineffective

2m social distancing ineffective

Quarantines with no symptoms futile

Asymptomatic spread a myth

"Vaccines" not legally vaccines

Gene therapy ineffective and dangerous

PCR useless"

As you might say yourself, "Wrong again" (and actually wong on all counts !!!)

Anyway, Happy Christmas to you and yours

Igotadose · 24-12-2021 4:41pm

Remember, baby Jeebus cries when you tell a lie.

Ash.J.Williams · 24-12-2021 4:41pm

lots Of people bandying about the word “research “ these days

PintOfView · 24-12-2021 4:42pm

And actually, Happy Christmas to all

hometruths · 24-12-2021 5:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118370184#Comment_118370184

only 86 children <16 years of age were diagnosed with myocarditis among nearly 65,000 (0.133%) children with COVID-19. During the same time period (March 2020-January 2021), 132 out of nearly 4 million children without COVID-19 developed myocarditis. Although the overall risk was low, the data translate to a risk of myocarditis that is more than 30 times higher among COVID-19 patients.

They're saying that the risk of myocarditis in children (<16) is "more than 30 times higher among Covid-19 patients".

Or to put it another way, getting infected with Covid-19 is more likely to lead to adverse outcomes than not getting infected with Covid-19.

Good to know.

astrofool · 24-12-2021 9:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118370346#Comment_118370346

Or to put it another way, getting infected with Covid-19 is more likely to lead to adverse outcomes than getting a vaccine (for everyone).

FYP

You seem to be in the covering eyes and ears phase of debate now.

On the apologizing piece, this is what you started with a few days ago, all evidence presented shows that this statement was false (there were other parts along the way, claiming past vaccine issues were found in the long term, calling out vaccines for adverse events when the stats show the opposite but is a misunderstanding on your part of what the adverse events systems are for):

I think the risk/reward ratio for any healthy person under 30 is skewed against the vaccines. For under 18s even more so.

I would agree with you that I would not personally get my kids vaccinated if I was not prepared to do the same thing for myself but family politics will also come into that

hometruths · 24-12-2021 9:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118370919#Comment_118370919

I think the risk/reward ratio for any healthy person under 30 is skewed against the vaccines. For under 18s even more so.

Are you really telling me you think this statement is me spreading misinformation?

astrofool · 24-12-2021 9:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118370952#Comment_118370952

Well it's wrong, I thought it better to start at the beginning (maybe it goes back further) than to cherry pick later points.

When the chances of being infected with SARS-COV2 was less prior to vaccines (pre-Delta) basically, that statement might have been true, but only because herd immunity may have been achieved at around 60-70% uptake, so the chances of being exposed was very low, Delta put the kibosh on that and moved the risk/reward very much towards the vaccines (there are still some on the COVID forum who are in the pre-Delta mindset and have found it hard to move on, I have posts myself on there from last year declaring that we'd be out of this by now due to vaccines and suffocating the virus, I was of the mindset that a more transmissible variant would need to be less serious, but I was wrong, maybe Omicron is what Delta should have been :)

hometruths · 24-12-2021 9:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371008#Comment_118371008

Well your opinion obviously differs from mine, which is fine, I am not too worried by that and nor should you be.

but you can’t claim I am spreading misinformation for expressing an opinion.

i said “I think....” - it was pretty obvious.

astrofool · 24-12-2021 10:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371046#Comment_118371046

I can say "I think 2+2 is 5", but I would call that spreading misinformation, the risk/reward is factually in favour of the vaccines, an opinion would be "while the risk/reward favours the vaccines, it's personally not enough for me to get a vaccine", as I said, humans are irrational, recognising when we do irrational things (eat sugary food, smoke) is important, encouraging others to be irrational when there is a pandemic ongoing is dangerous.

Overcoming irrationality should be lauded.

And it gets tiresome because there are so many disguised anti-vaxxers/re-reg accounts/trolls pushing "think of the children" or starting posts with "well vaccines don't work" (or the worst was a person spreading FUD on the pregnancy person, if hell exists, that person will be going there) that it's ridiculous, the same misinformation does a circle between them (and you see the same copypasta from the anti-vaxx forums on multiple threads at the same time).

And to be fair to the government, these people mostly get ignored and not indulged and to be fair to Ireland, we're mostly rational, we hate lockdowns and restrictions (well most do, I am vaxxed and pretty much living as I want but will be happy to see the back of masks, enforced WFH and be able to plan holidays in advance again), we follow the science and get vaccinated, it would be great if it was vax and go, but it wasn't, but it would be way worse without them (and then we have the "special" people who think that cases and deaths dropping is just a seasonal coincidence and nothing worked despite all evidence to the contrary).

hometruths · 24-12-2021 10:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371145#Comment_118371145

humans are irrational, recognising when we do irrational things (eat sugary food, smoke) is important, encouraging others to be irrational when there is a pandemic ongoing is dangerous

I agree with this. The panic and hysteria about misinformation has reached totally irrational levels. You want me to apologise for saying what I think because you disagree with it? Madness.

While we're at it, you and I were specifically discussing vaccines for 5-12 year olds and you stated as fact that the virus was over ten times more dangerous for them than the vaccine. Without anything to back this up it's just another opinion in my view. Or misinformation in yours.

And please don't tell me somebody posting links to a study about college athletes proves something about 5-12 year olds. That's just more misinformation.

astrofool · 24-12-2021 11:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371239#Comment_118371239

Just to make it clear (as there is numerous studies that have been previously linked), but this article from national geographic does sum the situation up pretty well:

The real risk of heart inflammation to kids is from COVID-19—not the vaccine (nationalgeographic.com)

Elias (who is studying the vaccine related myocarditis specifically

“I make it really clear that we encounter many more heart issues and more severe heart issues from COVID-19 itself compared to the vaccine,” Elias says.

The likelihood that vaccine-caused myocarditis will significantly affect kids’ lives long-term is “just infinitesimally small compared to your risk of getting really sick from COVID,” Su says. “Unfortunately, in this phase of the pandemic, I think the choice is not really to get vaccinated or not, the choice is would you rather get COVID or get the vaccine.”

This was from a few weeks ago, there has been nothing but positive news from the US since then about it such as this follow up from scientific American:

The Benefits of Vaccinating Kids against COVID Far Outweigh the Risks of Myocarditis - Scientific American

I'll let you read it, but it puts it in very simple terms and breaks it down by gender, the risk/reward for males is 250:1, it's 1400:1 for females, and that's focusing on one impact of the virus (myocarditis), there are others which are non-existent in the vaccine, so the actual benefit is even greater.

However, this is the anti-vax battleground, the last stand they have to make, the misinformation needs to flow here and will be designed to push all the buttons on parents for them to make irrational decisions.

And remember, even with this risk/reward, the advice is still for parents to make the choice that they are comfortable with.

But if the question is "are the vaccines safe for 5-11 year olds?" The answer is unequivocally that yes, they are.

Cheerful S · 25-12-2021 4:33am

I've got double vaccines from Pfizer and have no issue taking them. The reality is the not a single bit of transparency about the topic it's all end of days stuff.. This new variant milder why are they rushing to shut down everything. I know cases are high, but the majority have cough, bit of fever and runny nose. People's skin is not falling off here losing toes, and hands, we overreacting to high transmission but the virus mutation here weakened to what came out of China and Italy. It may be time to go to just let it spread and let it burn out. What do you solve by pushing people to find different ways to socialise over christmas. People in houses now partying makes no sense least you had some safety net with measures pubs had,

patnor1011 · 25-12-2021 4:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371724#Comment_118371724

Because from the start of it we are obsessed by "case numbers" which are nothing but overdone pcr tests. Majority of positive cases never even develop any symptoms. From those who do the most at risk are people who are obese and they tend to end up in hospitals.

People already moved on practically everywhere you move these days you will see people out and about even though they are clearly not well. It is that time of the year and everyone's excuse is "why, I do have vaccine" or "its just cold". I do not blame them, rent needs to be paid and food needs to be bought so everyone do what they can.

Current restrictions are a joke anyway. People move parties to the houses and since they cant meet in a pub or restaurant they will just peddle from house to house more often.

Fighting Tao · 25-12-2021 6:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371724#Comment_118371724

It’s simple really. They don’t know the impact of omicron yet. You’d be moaning if they didn’t put some restrictions in place and loads of people died too. They can’t do right in some peoples minds.

King Mob · 25-12-2021 7:04am

So looking like conspiracy theorists have given up claiming the vaccines are dangerous.

A christmas miracle.

Lex Luthor · 28-12-2021 7:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371762#Comment_118371762

Not just the conspiracy theorists, but the FDA aswell

This is a screenshot from a video of the FDA talking about the trials, it was on screen for barely 2 seconds but an eagle eyed viewer spotted it and alerted everyone to go look and take a screenshot. It is from October 2020.

Here's a snippet of a video clip between Fauci & Zuck talking about the vaccines in March 2020

https://twitter.com/forthegreater13/status/1475795962006286336?s=12

Just put this in context, they have recommended that these vaccines are safe for pregnant women to take, yet the nasal spray I have in the house doesnt recommend it to be taken by pregnant women

Fighting Tao · 28-12-2021 7:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118382832#Comment_118382832

Yet again you fail to provide the original source. A tweet of a bad quality video is obviously not the original source and is easy to make changes to without it been as obvious as in a HD video.

You’ve already been shown to post lies and bullshit using such methods…for example RTE News tweet that you still haven’t admitted to faking, when you did. So link the original video or delete your bullshit.

King Mob · 28-12-2021 7:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118382832#Comment_118382832

Cool. More lies and misrepresentation.

Why do you keep posting this junk from twitter?

Why do you keep ignoring all the times this junk is debunked and explained to you.

Why are you acting like a bot for these grifters and just reposting shite without questioning it?

Timberrrrrrrr · 28-12-2021 8:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118382907#Comment_118382907

He's obviously getting paid to post this, no one makes a conspiracy theorist look terrible better than a fake conspiracy theorist 🤷‍♂️🤣

astrofool · 28-12-2021 9:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118382832#Comment_118382832

a) it's perfectly conceivable that the FDA includes a slide on the adverse event data (but decided to pull it as shown by DRAFT in the title), the idea is to track events and compare them with the occurrence of those events in general population and see if there's any correlations, the answer is that there wasn't

b) Some medicines cross the placenta barrier and aren't recommended for pregnant women, vaccines don't, so are recommended (and very highly recommended for COVID as the risk of COVID complications during pregnancy is quite high). But you are an awful person to try and spread misinformation around pregnancy and medicines.

harrylittle · 28-12-2021 11:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353592#Comment_118353592

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371762#Comment_118371762

yeah in the world of make believe ...vaccines are safe ... and unicorns do exist ...

https://www.brighteon.com/28b20ab6-41f9-40dd-942d-bca3c4f7b99b

Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

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