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Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2024/25

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,106 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    Ndidi & Soumare fully rested. So basically that will be the base of their midfield the next day. Choudhury could play and he is a wrecking machine. A liability with injuring players. He has history with Salah and I think it was Newcastle & Everton players he previous injured too. Or was it Harvey Barnes? A player in blue iirc.

    Castagne rested but then played 45 so he could start the next day.

    To be fair Vardy was injured the last night so can't say anything about him staying on the bendh. They'll be hoping that he is fit to start the next game.

    I don't know the story with Barnes. Not in the last few squads now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,378 ✭✭✭Brendan Flowers


    When were Man Utd a "financially doped juggernaut"? And I'm open to correction on this, but from the start of the Premier League era until Ferguson's retirement, didn't Utd spend less money on players than Liverpool?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Financial doping is where a club doesn’t have to rely on its revenues to buy players. Jack Walker invested his own money to build a league winning and achieved short term success. The Glazers bought a debt free club and immediately loaded its debt. They have since spent over a billion since AF retired in 2013, yet the club is still deeply indebted, I’ve been looking for a total spend figure during their ownership. Even before MC started throwing money around, the accusation had be levelled at United, and ironically Liverpool.

    Edit: total operating profit 2005 to 2020 £467m. Total spend on players since Glazers took over to 2020 £1.4b.

    https://www.football365.com/news/man-utd-under-the-glazers-the-ridiculously-frightening-numbers

    Having said all that, in my earlier post I meant more that Liverpool have been competing against, and for the most part losing out to wealthier clubs in the title race since the inception of the Premiership.


    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-united-and-liverpool-accused-of-financial-doping-1671518.html?amp

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,365 ✭✭✭.red.


    United are a money machine off the pitch, the benchmark for clubs like Liverpool. They could spend 150/200m on transfers each summer and not worry about the joke that is ffp.

    They nearly always always spent well too, spent big but on the right players at the right time so rarely had a full rebuild to do. Always replacing at the right time. Add in the academy players that all came thru together and they had a multi title winning squad that didn't cost the earth. It was quite remarkable what they did TBF.

    Fergie also got quite lucky that he only ever really had Chelsea to deal with that had endless pockets, but equally, he had the means to go toe to toe with them in the market for the best players if he needed to. Man City were just becoming the force they are now when he retired. Liverpool were still making up the numbers at that stage and the clubs that are now bottomless pits of dirty money were all in the bottom half of the table.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,799 ✭✭✭Enzokk



    When they were able to spend more on a defender in 02-03 in a league winning squad than Liverpool in the whole transfer window. Or how they spent more on a midfielder the year before and almost as much on an attacker in 01-02 just after they had won 3 titles in a row from 99 to 01.


    Or are you trying to say they didn't have a spending advantage over other teams in that era?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    Ah Jaysus, there is a thread here already to discus United, and I'm sure another somewhere to discuss all the other teams that are equally irrelevant to who is going to rival Liverpool and win the EPL/Champions League in this day and age - why pollute this thread with ancient history about Fergie and when they were a successful side back in the nineties?? The game has moved on, let them live in the past and watch reruns of the Premier League years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,930 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    Just catching up on some of Pep Lijnders interviews over the last week he is defiantly implying he want's the managers job after Klopp finishes.

    "That’s the plan (to be a manager again)," he told reporters ahead of Wednesday League Cup quarter-final clash with Leicester City. "That’s the plan but Jurgen knows this.

    "This isn’t the time to speak about these things because I have a contract until 2024. When the time comes, I will sit down with my management and will see the options I have.

    "But we are in the middle of this project, this beautiful project, and after that I will decide. But definitely, yeah, that’s the plan.

    "This is not the moment to speak about these things (becoming Liverpool manager one day).

    "I will speak with my management in 2024 and we will see all the options that are on the table."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭Speak Now


    Never had an issue with the money utd spent, it was theirs earned to do with as they pleased. I wouldn't be comparing them to the oil clubs.

    Whatever about Leicester resting players today they are still going to have a large overlap of players for game against us. Then again they went strong last Thursday as well, hoping a fresh reds team can see them off.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think that is the point, financial doping is where you can buy players without having to earn the money. Personally I don’t have an issue either with Man Utd, it was Brendan Flowers who took issue with the reference to them in my post. To be honest, I don’t even have much of an issue with Chelsea or MC either, their spending has raised the bar for the Premiership and made it the quality league it is. Liverpool are not a poor club, I understand the owners unwillingness to match City’s big spending, but that doesn’t stop me from wishing the would compete for the likes of Haaland and Mbappe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,378 ✭✭✭Brendan Flowers


    But as I said, as far as I know from the start of the Premier League era until Ferguson retired, United spent less money than Liverpool on players. So I'm not sure how someone can say that before Chelsea United were a "financially doped juggernaut". If the argument is based on a few transfers over a couple of seasons, could you not argue that Liverpool have done the same in recent years when they first broke the world record fee for a defender and then broke the world record fee for a goalkeeper?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I suppose that depends on whether Liverpool were reliant on club revenue to fund the purchases. I think it is widely accepted that Phil joining Barcelona allowed Liverpool to buy both those players. My understanding is that Liverpool FC are almost debt free and the club can only spend what is generated. Someone more informed than me will be able to clarify that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,930 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    Yes Liverpool and Man U when they were on top in the 70's.80's,90's & 00's they outspent other teams from a position of power with there self created wealth from winning, sponsorship's and sales of players however when they did it was to improve there first teams.

    What City are doing is beyond anything any English club has ever done before they are spending a £100m for a sub and have a bench full of subs worth more than most squads in the league and there money is not coming from real sponsorships and sales of players, It's coming from sports doping through made up and inflated sponsorships etc.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Which player did they spend €100m to be a sub? Fab hardly kicked a ball in the first team the first couple of months he joined, Konate and Robertson the same, Jota has sat on the bench quite a bit, but I don’t think anyone would say they were bought to be subs. Grealish was a bold boy and is struggling to adapt in a new team, but I doubt Pep bought him to be a sub.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,510 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    They've scored 18 goals in three games with Grealish on the bench. He sure looks like he's outside their beat 11.


    The point remains though, whether it's Mahrez, Sterling, Jesus or Grealish.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The same could be said about Fab/Thiago/Henderson/Bobby at various times when Liverpool have scored goals in their absence. Unfortunately MC have a squad packed with goal scorers. Sterling couldn’t get in the team for ages, now he is going well again. City really don’t have players that are subs in the same way Mini or Origi are, players are interchangeable without loss of continuity due to the quality of their squad. There is no way you can put Grealish in the same category as Origi, a player you know is never going to be first choice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,106 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    Man City stock piling wingers so that they can't play at their rivals.

    Foden / Mahrez / Sterling / Grealish / Jesus / Torres for the first half of the season. Add in KDB and it's 7 players playing for 3 positions pretty much.

    3 of those purchased directly from other PL clubs. Was Grealish really needed? Or was he signed to prevent him playing for another rival? Just because they are able to.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    TBF, when they bought him Sterling was out of favour and expected to move, you forgot Bernardo Silva, he also wasn’t Pep’s favourite at the start of the season and there were reports that MC would entertain bids for him and/or Mehrez at the time Grealish joined. I suspect MC might have liked to move on at least 1 or 2 before bringing in Grealish/Kane.

    Besides which, it is hard to criticise their reliance on creative wingers in the absence of an out and out striker, Sterling/Mehrez/Silva/de Breyne were brilliant today. Torres will be gone soon, and Foden could be there for the next decade. Grealish will no doubt interchange with the others, but he certainly wasn’t bought to sit on the bench.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,510 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Not sure their reliance on them is being questioned tbf.


    Liverpool also play without and orthodox striker but city have the enviable position of having multiple comparable replacements on the bench. Never seen depth like it on the front lines.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,106 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    So they would have been disposing of £50m players or a £60m players in order to buy £100m + players. Nice when you have that option.

    How many others clubs can do that, in the world?


    Also, the rumours for Sterling & Silva were to go to foreign clubs. But buying Grealish & Kane were directly from other PL clubs, thus decreasing the quality of the other PL clubs.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Me neither, though I’d like to in red shirts.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Twas ever thus, big clubs raid other clubs for their best players. AV got €100m, Spurs would have got more, if spent wisely, the quality of the team can improve. We did it ourselves when selling Phil and wisely investing it in two much needed quality players.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,106 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    And stockpile players, even when not needed?

    Mahrez gas started 7 games this season. Available for all 19 games. In arguably his prime age. £60m.

    He'd be the main man at about 14 clubs. But not really needed at City. 13 players have played more than him in the league this season, including 6 different players who could be classed as an attacking midfielder or winger. So he is 7th choice.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What is your point here? I could see how he would be considered a waste if he wasn’t playing or city weren’t doing well but he still wasn’t getting a game. The fact is that they are playing brilliantly, he is contributing and Pep is interchanging his players so that they are in prime position to challenge on all fronts. How can he not be needed? It’s like saying Jota or Jones are not needed, or Origi/Mini are not needed. They are needed when Klopp needs them. Pep apparently told Sterling last year he was 4th choice for his position, now he fighting it out with Foden, is he not needed?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭atilladehun


    Would anyone go for an American system that has a lit more parity?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,042 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    Sterling was out of favour and expected to move?! Would massively disagree with both assertions - He played 52 games the season before he was sold, very close to every game he was available for, so I've no idea how that equates to 'out of favour'. He was one of the absolute key players in the squad, and the club offered him an absolutely massive new contract, trebling his wages to try to keep him. To get his move he had to do an unsanctioned interview behind the clubs back to try to force their hand. In the end he wanted out badly enough, and was willing to make enough of a scene (like refusing to go on the preseason tour, and reportedly faking illness), and kept rejecting contracts, so the club had to bite.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think you took me up wrong, or my syntax was poor, he was out of favour last season and expected to move in the summer. The “him” in the conversation is Grealish, the subject of the last paragraph of Fitz’s’s post I was replying to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,042 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    aahhh gotcha, i understand what you meant now!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Don’t know if this kid is any good, but I wonder why he would leave Liverpool to join United. While I would always hope a young kid makes it in the game, we will never hear the last of it if he does make to the first team.

    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manchester-united-liverpool-22577909.amp



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,664 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    I went on a 'reputable' Irish travel company to Anfield. It was a present and cost a fortune. The tickets were from a season ticket holder/ tout , who met me outside Anfield and gave me his number if i had trouble. I just had to give his name if I was asked for my name for any reason.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,042 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    He was just miles down the pecking order, even at underage level, so couldn't see any route through to get a chance in the first team. Fair enough really, just the wrong position to be trying to break through in. In that attacking midfield/wingforward sort of role at underage level he was behind Musialowski, Balagizi, Blair, Gordon, and potentially even a few others.

    One weird comment in that article that says Ennis played a 'huge part' in the run to the FA youth cup final. He actually just played 26 minutes in the very first game, and didn't make the squad for the rest.

    We offered him a contract, so I'm sure he's decent, but leaving was probably the right thing to do for his career if there's less obstacles in his path to the first team elsewhere.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That’s the bit that tweaked my attention, thought he was a star in the winning team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,042 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    Yeah, that FA Youth Cup comment was very much not the case, he just wasn't a factor in that run at all. Even in the U-18 league he only started 3 games, and was left out of the squad entirely more than he was included. Odds are, it's probably not one that'll come back to bite the club.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,296 ✭✭✭✭citytillidie


    St Stephen's day was boring with no Liverpool game to watch

    ******



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,489 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    I guess it's only a matter of days now before Mbappe signs an agreement with Real, and what if on the back of it PSG make a real bid of 180m for Salah in the Summer, contract signed or not, would we sell.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Hard to see how we could refuse if he hasn’t signed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,930 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,743 ✭✭✭giveitholly


    3 more positive tests,2 staff members and a unidentified younger player



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,489 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    I think FSG will get the deal done for Salah as too protect their investment in him, but that they'd also take a serious bid for him once they tie him down, even if it came in the summer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,489 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    It's not very democratic when you need 14 clubs out of 20 to agree to change, 11-09 is democratic in all fairness.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭Girly Gal


    The dominant team in any country have always done this; get the best players and weaken the opposition at the same time, we did it in the 80's, United in the 90's and 00's, Chelsea at various times since the early 00's and City over the last decade. Madrid, Barca, Juventus, Bayern, PSG all do this as did A.C. Milan and Inter during their dominant eras. It's just how football works it's City's turn right now, not much we can do about it really, in a few years time we could have the same complaint about Newcastle



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,510 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    I need to look it up to confirm but k don't feel like Klopp makes tha many subs and when he does they are incredibly late on.

    Even in games we are comfortably cruising in he seems reluctant.


    So, a bit like with Pep yesterday, I am not 100% sure how five subs would help when neither manager is making the most of three.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭Girly Gal


    Not sure about Pep, but, Klopp definitely doesn't always use the 3 subs and it's often very late when the third sub does come on. Even in Europe where 5 subs are allowed, he seems very reluctant to use them all, so, not really sure why he's looking for it. It would also benefit City, Chelsea and even United more than us as our squad does not have the same strength in depth.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,106 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    He has used the full 5 subs whenever he has been given the opportunity to though. Certainly in every CL game.

    To play devils advocate here, maybe the managers are not using the full 3 subs in the league, as instead they rotate more in the starting line.

    A player can play 90 mins in Game 1 and 15 mins in Game 2 (105 total) instead of giving the player 60 mins in Game 1 & 60 mins in Game 2 (120 total)


    I think there was some talk last season that the reason why Klopp left it until later in the game to use all of his subs until later in the game was because of the number of injuries that were occurring. He didn't want a situation where 3 subs were made but then another player got injured and he was then forced to play with 10.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,930 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    Klopp has been using the squad and subs a lot this season and not leaving it late like in previous season.




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭Girly Gal


    In most of the CL games the final sub has tended to go on in injury time, I think in more than 1 CL match we put the final 2 subs on deep in injury time. In the last few PL games the last sub has tended to go on deep in injury time and second sub generally around the 80th minute, so we aren't really get a huge benefit from the final sub in particular, seems to be used more to waste time at the end of a match. I know most clubs do this, must be very frustrating for a player to go on knowing the ref is likely to blow the whistle before then even get a chance to touch the ball



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Was thinking that argument was flawed alright.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,106 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*



    It's madness to think that all 5 subs would be made by the 80th minute. It's actually stupid. No manager will do that. Unless they are chasing a game and desperate to get something. Liverpool won 6 out of 6 CL group stage games and never in that situation. Of course the final sub will be held back until late. It's being smart in case there is an injury and you need to make a change.

    4 subs out of 30 subs made in the CL were in injury time. 2 of those 4 injury time subs were during a dead rubber, to give 2 kids some CL experience in an already heavily rotated side. The other 2 injury time subs were against 10 men Atletico.


    Milan

    63

    71 71

    84 84


    Porto

    66

    67 67 (one who scored 2 goals)

    73

    88


    Atletico

    46

    63 63 (one won the winning penalty)

    85

    92


    Atletico

    46

    60

    78 78

    94


    Porto (dead rubber with decent amount of rotation)

    63 63

    72 72 (one assisted a goal)

    82


    Milan (dead rubber with lots of rotation)

    65 65

    80

    93 93



    Its clear that in the CL games, Klopp had made 3 or 4 subs by the time the 73 minute had come. Plenty time to for a player to change it up. 4 goals directly coming from these subs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭Girly Gal


    My point is more aimed at the PL games than the CL as the dead rubber games do change the dynamics of team selections, subs, etc. It's not only Liverpool that do it, but, most teams tend to leave the last sub until deep in injury time with the ref about to blow the final whistle. I know you can't really throw on all subs with 30 mins to go, but, I think in most matches once it passes 85/6 minute mark you can risk putting on the last sub as there's only a handful of minutes left even if an injury does occur. I 'd hate to be the player going on with time practically up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,106 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    Liverpool's last 4 league games have been been level or Liverpool had a one goal lead on 86 mins. One of those, Liverpool were playing with 10 men. The games were in the balance.

    There is some thinking behind keeping one remaining sub until later in the game. It helps you react to tactical changes from the opposition's manager and also any scoreline change. Making subs earlier takes away the ability to react to some of these.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭Girly Gal


    It's the subs coming on with the ref about to blow the final whistle that really annoy me, surely they could be put on 5 mins early to try to affect the game. Once it passes the 85/6 min ( unless there is expected to about 10 mins injury time added) teams aren't going to change tactically that much, they would only have probably one sub to make themselves and it's often fairly obvious what certain teams will do in a given situation towards the end of matches. Also from a Liverpool point of view in most matches we shouldn't really be reacting to what the opposition do, we should be dictating to them.



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