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Working From Home Megathread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    How do they know that the home workplace is ergonomically safe?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    According to Richard Grogan the employee will supply photographs of the workspace using their phone. If a desk/chair needs to be provided, that will be the responsibility of the employer. But if the workspace is unsuitable for that desk/chair, then it’s back to the office for you my friend.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Is Richard qualified in ergonomics? He's taking a guess.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Don’t know, but he is pretty well versed in employment law.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Take a look at the HSA guidance on the safety legislation and you'll see that Richard is taking a guess.

    Desks and chairs haven't been provided for the large number of public servants working from home.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,454 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    You provide your employees with the tools they need so set it up safely.

    Trusting your employees to do something, it’s not a wild idea.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    How do I submit expenses for 2021? The ption isn't there under tax credits for 2021..



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Andrew, I’m not sure you have quite grasped yet that the legislation has not yet being enacted that grants a right to work from home. This is a developing situation where employees could return to the office, then told they shouldn’t. If someone cannot wfh, there is still nothing to stop and employer from requiring the employee to the return to the office. Currently wfh is guidance, not law. It will be the second have of next year before most employers know if wfh is just a temporary situation, or long term. So why you are so obstinate in your opinions about wfh requirements and rights is bizarre. Most people seem to like the current arrangements, but not everyone is yet certain of their employers policy nor what the legal requirements will be. So take a day off, you don’t have to be this way every day.



  • Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I recently did one of these surveys and it included providing a photo of the home office, it passed with flying colours.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,170 ✭✭✭limnam



    You haven't ran into domestic violence on a zoom meeting?

    Sheltered life!



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The % wanting to wfh most or all of the time seems to be increasing

    There must be something to it after all



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭Sultan of Bling


    All right folks, I'm putting my foot down with a firm hand.

    It's Christmas.

    I don't want any further work talk until the 4th of January.

    I don't care if you hate the office, hate working from home, or witnessed someone getting the sh**te knocked out of them during a powerpoint presentation on Microsoft teams.

    Anymore work talk and I'm putting you on my list of enemies.

    Merry Christmas to all the working people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Wild or not, it doesn't get over the legal obligation in H&S legislation for the employer to provide a safe workplace. The HSA guidelines issued during Covid made it very clear that this responsibility remains with the employer.

    And again, yes, I've grasped all that. There is indeed nothing to the employer from requiring the employee to return to the office. I've been told 'it's a temporary situation for 18 months now. How long will it take for you to admit that it's not temporary? WFH is now the default for most office-based roles. Employers will find it difficult or impossible to say 'WFH doesn't work at all for us'. It's not a huge leap to suggest that we'll find ourselves where it becomes an expectation for employees to provide office space for free to their employer, discriminating against those in less comfortable home surroundings.

    If that is the long term answer - working from the office as before - then that's great. I've a feeling the bean counters and facilities teams are wetting themselves at the prospects of the cost savings they can make by requiring employees to provide office space to the employer free of charge. It's not a huge leap to see how this could become an expectation or a default.

    It's probably not a great idea to display your own complete ignorance of these matters. Not everyone has experience in supporting people experiencing domestic violence, and that's OK, but choosing take swipes based on terminology that you're not personally famiiar with isn't a great. Sanctuary is fairly common terminology with domestic violence issues.

    “It’s true that for many of us home is a place of safety in a time uncertainty. But for thousands of women and children across Ireland, home is a place of violence and fear. It is important to remember that workplaces and schools often offer sanctuary for victims of domestic violence. Job losses, remote working, self-isolation and other measures are already impacting on victims. 

    From https://www.womensaid.ie/about/newsevents/news/2020/03/18/media-release-home-not-always-the-safest-place-dur/ with my bolding for emphasis



  • Registered Users Posts: 604 ✭✭✭a_squirrelman


    I don’t know what the world would do without you. You’re out there fighting every battle. It’s a true Christmas miracle.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    I got Covid, was confirmed yesterday, and was in the office most likely when I was infected. On that day, I was closest to my boss who was insisting on people coming into the office and spending every day in there himself. HR forced him to row back on forcing people in when cases started to spike but he’s been there every day since September and I did have to pop in last week.


    He flew out abroad for Christmas. I hope I didn’t pass it on to him because it’ll f**k him and his family but I can’t help but think that if karma is a thing, he’ll be testing positive as he’s about to come back home and will be stuck over there for 10 days.


    On the flip side, he’s such a nasty, vindictive fucker that he’ll make my life a misery if I’ve passed it on to him. Might make him think seriously about the wisdom of bringing people in unnecessarily though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    You think it is karma to pass on Covid to your boss, possibly his family and trap them abroad because he goes to work in the office every day and you had to pop in? Let’s hope karma works both ways.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    Na don't think it'd be a good thing at all and don't wish it on him to be honest.

    This is a guy who, the minute the restrictions lifted in September, he wanted everyone in the office right away despite the fact that no one wanted it and some were deeply uncomfortable with it for justifiable reasons. When the numbers spiked, he told HR he wanted to continue to bring people in but got put in his box and told it was dangerous. This is a guy who dismissed a vulnerable employee condescendingly when she rightly flagged protocol breaches and concerns around the covid set up in the office. He's basically treated covid as an inconvenience.


    I wont even get into some of his other behaviour. But no, I wouldn't wish it on his family at all. Just think there would be a certain irony if he had caught it in the office.


    And karma did get me. Didn't get to see my kids on Christmas day because I got the damned thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Covid is very inconvenient. If the guy thought he had to go into the office every day, and did nothing wrong when restrictions were lifted by getting people back to the office, that does not mean in any way shape or form that he deserves to be sick, nor would it be ironic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    No reason for him to be in the office day after day. The government advice is to work from home if possible if I'm not mistaken and HR have strongly advised people to work from home. Yet he's there every day.


    Not saying anyone deserves covid but you take those sorts of risks and you increase your chances of getting it substantially.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    The important word there is “advice”, the Government issued guidance, it is up to employers to decide. Your boss thought it necessary to go in, I’ve been at work every day, do I deserve to get Covid?

    Your post reads like you would be happy if he tests positive when he’s about to come home, it would be “karma” for a bad deed. Nice.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    I didn't say anyone deserved to get Covid.


    And, as a matter of interest, have you forced everyone else to come in when they didn't want to and some were very anxious about doing so?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Yes, we work in a medical/dental clinic. But that’s beside the point. I could close my clinic if I wanted to follow Government advice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    Which is different. Isn't it important for people to be physically there for such a business? I work in a back office.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    That is the point, it is up to employers to decide whether it is important or not, that is why the Government only issued guidance/advice and did not make wfh mandatory. Your boss decided it was necessary for himself to be there, you popped in, and seem to think him getting Covid would be karma for that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    Nope, think you're putting words in my mouth. Read my posts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    WFH is the the default because of the pandemic and associated risks with having full count on-site, you cannot turn that into being the new norm for the long-term future, because mandatory WFH will 100% NOT be the norm, we know that based on the trend for return to work policies being rolled out as we approached reopening.

    I'm not sure where you got this conclusion. I've never seen any written reference confirming the expectation that office accommodation will continue to be available for those who want or need it in any of the papers coming out of Government, either for civil/public service employees, or for wider employment. All the policies and papers I've seen were about managing expectations for WFH, and were silent on the other side of the coin.

    . It would be counter-productive for an employer to MAKE you work from home when we are out of the pandemic and there is office space available - especially if some staff are screaming about un-safe/suitable working conditions. I guarantee your employer will let you work 5 days on-site while your colleagues enjoy a few days a week working from home.

    Counter productive indeed, and yet that's EXACTLY what is happening at present, mandatory WFH for me, and most public servants, despite having largely empty offices sitting open and heated for skeleton staff, so negligible Covid risk would arise from my presence.

    And then, like I said, if your employer introduces a policy you don't like - if you can't get it to change, you change employers or change your circumstances to support WFH (in this case) - maybe it's time to move or re-think your home layout to support the change in future working practises? I know that when I move or buy next, a room to use an office is top of the list.

    Sorry but that's no solution, on either side. Suggesting I have to go a buy a new house to get space to give my employer for zero return is absolutely ridiculous, and actually confirms my worst fears. Suggesting that I find a new employer isn't a very practical solution for those of us in our 50s or 60s. Try sending out a CV with 30-40 years of employment on it and see what kind of responses you get back.

    There is a very serious risk that we're going to drift into the scenario where employees are expected to provide office accommodation to their employers for zero return.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm not sure where you got this conclusion. I've never seen any written reference confirming the expectation that office accommodation will continue to be available for those who want or need it in any of the papers coming out of Government, either for civil/public service employees, or for wider employment. All the policies and papers I've seen were about managing expectations for WFH, and were silent on the other side of the coin.

    So if there is nothing, either way, why are you so worried? You're posts seem to suggest that you have concluded that it will be mandatory



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Because of the current practice of mandatory WFH regardless of the available office space.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭Dav010




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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,900 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    The mandatory WFH that has been imposed on Andrew and many other public servants for the duration of the Covid emergency response.

    I know several people who were allowed into the office for two hours to collect their laptop, and are still forbidden from going back unless a manager authorises a specific visit for a decision purpose.



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