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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So gortanna has listed measures that simply made sense to retain. The COVID pass does not make sense to retain post pandemic. Fyi, I actually do think vaccine passports of some kind for travel do make sense. The only reason for that is plenty of countries require certain vaccines to be able to travel there but that in itself differs from the overall role of the COVID pass.


    Things like mask wearing I'd say will be members of the public choosing to wear masks in shopping centers etc. Particularly during flu season.


    But none of the above would amount to permanent measures. Instead we get posters claiming that things are more restrictive than ever. Gortanna tends to do this even though it's becoming apparent that restrictions are slowly loosening bit by bit even though a bit of reactiveness is required.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,960 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The opening post is paranoid delusional waffle from start to finish. The title "All Covid 19 measures are permanent" - false, all measures haven't been permanent.

    The opening sentence "All social/population control measures introduced by the state security apparatus as a result of this health scare will be, and have always intended to be, permanent in my view. "

    They aren't "society control measures" or "population control measures". They weren't introduced by the "state security apparatus". It's not a "health scare", it's a global pandemic.

    It's by a poster who thinks all this is a "ruse" to install global Communism. Irrational conspiracy nonsense, you just pick out the parts that satisfy your irrational fantasies.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Gortana keeps mentioning that security measures haven't been relaxed since 9/11, when in reality all that has changed really (unless you are based in the US) is that you can't take a bottle of water through security with you. That is an annoyance and has probably mostly remained as airports like to sell you bottles of water on the other side of security so have no reason to lobby to get the restriction removed.

    Travel through an airport for the rest of the world, other than the US, is mostly exactly the same as it was before 9/11. Just the US security before that time was stupidly relaxed and non-existent and more like just getting on a bus with wings. The US just caught up with what the rest of us had been doing for years anyway. The only other change is that occasionally you may be asked to take your shoes off and put them through the xray machine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    It's not so much that the list of things that will be permanent keep changing (from "all" to "just masks" and back again depending on what's convenient for them to ullshit about at the time.)

    It's the fact that they won't and can't explain why.

    Masks might be more common in everyday life like they were in Japan before covid.

    But none of them will explain why this will be beside the obvious, real explanation.


    Some have tried to claim that it's because the evil satanists in control of everything want to "dehumanise" people using masks. Others have claimed that it's to "remind people about the pandemic" for reasons unknown.

    But it seems that conspiracy theorists here have realised how silly, asinine and off putting these ideas are, so they've abbandoned them to continue to try and pretend that they have real points.

    Now they just ignore the question of why because they can't answer it, or because they know their actual answer makes them look insane and ridiculous.


    As restrictions ease and fade, we're going to see them try desperately to move the goalposts to pretend they've been right all along.

    First it will be "See, the restrictions came back, we were right all along."

    Then when most restrictions are gone it will be "See, people are still wearing masks."

    Then finally it will be "well now they can just bring the restrictions back next time they really want to take over."


    At no point will any conspiracy theorist admit to having been wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,105 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I would not feel the slightest bit sorry for them in any circumstance. The fact that they just dump their rubbish all over social media, and similar to this thread, just run away when challenged, shows they do not even believe it themselves.

    They are just would be cult leaders looking for a cult to lead for their own gratification by playing on the insecurity and mental problems of others.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,105 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    You really do post some awful drivel.

    England has had such a love of liberty that they had to be kicked out of virtually every country they invaded leaving behind them their "liberation" policy of divide and conquer that is still causing conflicts that are costing lives to this day.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I didn't ask you about the opening part of the post. I asked you about the measures brianhere listed that were said to have been temporary but ended up being anything but.


    It is possible to agree with parts of what a person writes without agreeing with every single thing they write.


    And the Doug Ford question. He thought it necessary to say that the vaccine passport would definitely be temporary. Why? Why the necessity to say that if it's obviously, as some on here are absolutely certain is the case, a temporary measure? I suppose you'll say that anyone and everyone who has concerns about vaccine passport is and are a conspiracy theorists or conspiracy theorists.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They're not slowly loosening, protonmike. They're rapidly getting tighter. The vaccine passport was supposed to be for a few weeks. That few weeks was 7 months ago.


    And again, what's the evidence that masks, for example, will go? And 'we didn't have to wear them in the past' isn't evidence. Has it ever been said that they'll go?



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,544 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    "He thought it necessary to say that the vaccine passport would definitely be temporary. Why?"

    Because there are really thick people out there who believe that the restrictions are going to be permanent He had to dumb it right down and explain it in really small words so that it might penetrant thier thick skulls and maybe just maybe the information would seep through to thier tiny brains?



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    He wasn't prepared for how determined some people are to be willfully ignorant.

    Or for how dishonest people would be so they could misrepresent whatever he said to grift from the willfully ignorant.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Denmark and Ireland with the 2 highest vaccination rates in the EU now have the their highest number of cases for the whole pandemic....an indication that the vaccine arent working surely.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    The evidence that they go is that there's no reason for why they would stay.

    You've had 10000 posts to explain why you believe they would stay and you've been completely unable to do so. You've had to be utterly dishonest to avoid acknowledging the fact you can't explain this.

    So therefore, there's no reason. Therefore they won't stay.

    Your thread proves this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,634 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    The least number of deaths indicates otherwise...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Timber, Doug Ford himself said he understood the concerns about the impact on civil liberties. Does he himself also have a tiny brain? Is anyone who is concerned that the may not be temporary a person who has a tiny brain?


    FUREY: Ford calls vax passports 'temporary' -- but offers no end date | Toronto Sun


    "The government’s still ironing out the details on phase two and developing the technology. If the passport is just a temporary measure to give our already very high vaccination rates a bit of nudge higher, then why not just stick with the paper version for a few months?


    There’s no point to putting all the costs and effort into building a digital verification system if it’s only going to be in place for a month or two, about the same amount of time the cost-free paper version is in effect. Therefore you’ve got to assume that someone in government has an inkling that the phrase temporary is being used very loosely here and is what people in government like to call a “stretch goal.”"


    Can you answer the journalist's question?


    If the passport is just a temporary measure to give our already very high vaccination rates a bit of nudge higher, then why not just stick with the paper version for a few months?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Tbh, it doesn’t take much or cost much to design software to create a barcode, and an app to read it, and there are some people like yourself that would be inclined to fake a paper version that didn’t have a barcode

    PS, I know I’m replying to you and you are pretending that I’m on ignore 😛



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,960 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Selection bias. I can list out measures that weren't permanent, e.g. after the Spanish flu, measures were lifted. Why doesn't Brianhere list those? Oh that's right, he's only carefully and selectively trying to find only those measures that were made permanent to fit his narrative of these measures being permanent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,634 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    The simple answer is that the digital version was already in use for international travel so it didn't make sense for an easily faked paper version to be used instead (one "permanent" thing is that vaccine passports for international travel will all be digital, they have existed forever but were paper based before).

    It would cost more to implement a parallel paper based system.

    The passes use internally will stop when either a) the health system is under no stress b) there isn't a disproportionate number of unvaccinated people using the health system due to COVID while it's under stress.

    If you believe neither a or b will change this, you need to explain why, what does the government (or whoever you think is really in control) get out of 94% of the population being able to access pubs and restaurants and keeping the remaining 6% away from them? Remembering that being infected by the virus also qualifies a person for the pass and that children don't need it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Because the virus in endemic... proven by the fact that countries with lower vaccination rates also have their lowest number of deaths.

    Ireland have reintroduced restrictions, that is the Irish government telling you that the vaccine is a failure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,634 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    The virus is not endemic (look up what endemic means and come back).

    The countries with the lowest rates of vaccination have the highest rates of death, this is from November, it's even worse for lower vaccinated countries now:




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't recall fake vaccine certificates being an issue before. I have one for the yellow fever vaccine. It would be pretty hard to fake. It's full of stamps and stickers. The Canadian journalist's point is well made. If they're temporary then just use the paper version for a few weeks or months.


    The heath system is always under pressure in Ireland, especially in winter. There was a handful of cases last summer, and a tiny number of deaths, and Glynn was still very concerned. So why wouldn't the cert be used every winter?


    But there are countries and states where 100% (Sao Paolo) or close to 100% (New South Wales, Ireland, Gibraltar) of the adult population has been vaccinated and there's no sign of them going. But if they go once every single person has been vaccinated, including children and babies, as some here have suggested, then we'll soon be able to test that hypothesis thanks to Austria, and likely Germany and Luxembourg, where mandatory vaccination is in place.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,581 ✭✭✭jackboy


    The certs won’t go until it is sure they are no longer needed. They are highly likely to remain for all of 2022. They should be scrapped eventually though but that is likely a very long time away.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Ireland adding restrictions is enough proof that the vaccination is a failure. What other reason is for the restrictions?

    Also these countries you mention have a higher death rate now than they did 12 months ago when they had 0% vaccinated, so have a worse death rate now with 40% vaccinated etc....



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,634 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Because presumably unvaccinated people visit Sao Paolo (and they're not actually at 100% due to a lot of undocumented residents...) and that in Ireland and New South Wales the small number of unvaccinated take up a hugely disproportionate amount of the healthcare system.

    But again, when a) the health system is under no stress or b) there isn't a disproportionate number of unvaccinated people using the health system due to COVID while it's under stress.

    What is the reasons the government, or whoever, would keep it? What's the advantage to keeping a small number of people restricted if not for health reasons?

    And I'm sorry, but this just highlights the ridiculousness of your position, a teeny tiny bit of research would have shown that fake vaccine certs have been a thing for a long time, the fact that you don't recall it just means nothing. And, as I said, implementing a paper cert system would cost more than a digital system given that the digital system was already developed.

    I don't recall fake vaccine certificates being an issue before.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,634 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    The countries with a lower vaccinated % today have a higher death rate today then countries with a a higher vaccinated %.

    That we are not in a full lockdown as we were last year with much more transmissible variants around is also an indication that the vaccines work.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Except you are comparing two countries with different standards of living, best this to do is compare these countries with themselves 12 months ago when they had no vaccinated citizens. Why arent Bulgaria or Romania any better if the vaccine was effective?

    The fact the government added any restrictions shows the vaccine doesn't work, if it did they would have ended all restrictions the second the majority got vaccinated. No other justification for keeping restrictions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Ok. So what's the real reason for the restrictions?

    What's the real reason for the vaccine since it doesn't work?

    Which measures are going to be permanent and why?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,105 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    If vaccines are not working how do you explain the greatly disproportionate numbers unvaccinated in our hospitals and ICU`s compared to those vaccinated ?

    In Ireland over the 4 months alone for August - November, on average the unvaccinated have taken up 5 times more hospital beds and 8 times more ICU beds than the vaccinated relative to their percentages of the population.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,634 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    What do living standards have to do with it? 12 months ago most countries were in full lockdown, for Ireland the death rate in Jan/Feb of this year will be multiples that of the next 2 months, because now we have vaccines.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Well the reason for restrictions is because the vaccine doesnt work, that's the big question as it clearly isnt for our health considering they have kept restrictions despite the vaccination rate. I dont know, ask the government as anything I say is speculation. If with a vaccine nothing changes with restrictions then I guess almost all of them will remain long term.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Can I ask who is showing us that data? Find out who and dig deep and im sure you wont have to look far to see that who ever is presenting the data has some affiliation to Pfizer or Moderne, if there is a conflict of interests I wouldnt value information from a source that highly. All I'll say is if the vaccine was really effective than we would have been adding restrictions when the vaccination rate is 94%. That should tell you all you need to know about the affectedness of the vaccine.


    Ah right so you are telling me for a virus with a 99% survival rate that a whopping 6% of the population are making up 5 times the number of hospital beds and 8 times the number of ICU beds...I can smell bullshit coming from a mile away, again what is the exact source for these stats, what company provided them?



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