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Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭realhorrorshow


    Nothing new there, and obviously it has been very profitable in the past for the players, Connacht, and Ireland. Hopefully the 2021 crop alone will form a solid spine of indigenous squad members, just disappointing to drop off so sharply so quickly. Only two in the u19 squad too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,965 ✭✭✭connachta


    For exemple, not even considering Deegan injury, Pehny played 150 min this season, he could and should have more, with Connacht in a key phase of his developping age.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,634 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Im still not sure what you mean by barred?? There are no leinster talents barred.

    Leinster has a very competitive squad, especially at back row. Penny has been injured. He was also in line to make his euro debut in that montpellier game that never happened. When players are happy to plough their furrow to make leinster squads ahead of starting for connacht you'd have to start asking if connacht are making attractive enough offers.

    I mean, Galway is a lovely city and only 2hrs from Dublin... So the physical move itself can't be a significant factor



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,021 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Think he means "blocked", and he's right. Penny is a very good player but he's fourth choice open side and maybe third choice 8, with very little chance of moving up the rankings any time soon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    regular squad member, rarely used even in the giveaway caps games, despite performing well. recovered well from personal tragedy and was bombed out of the squad throughout that period.

    fair play to him for going to France. i hope Cooney follows suit. in form players ignored by Ireland on the regular. ergo dicked over. Dillane never spoke out, was a willing tackle bag holder over a number of years. not even given a proper proper sniff since that England cameo. but losing him from Irish rugby is a f*cking disaster.

    yeah i probably do have a chip against them as they have failed to see the big picture time and time again. particularly in regards to Conancht. one exaqmple is Dillane.one of two kerry players (probably the least represented county in rugby given its size) playing in France would be one such issue. but yeah the IRFU smartest guys in the room, i know, i know. Potts will be the fresh wind that the organisation needs.

    and Syd ill take a huge dollop of salt to your mutterings. i seem to recall you were one of the lads bigging up the Pap signing as well as BOD.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,318 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    He's good and I'd have no worries if the lads ahead of him were injured and Dillane was in the team. But he's not obviously better than the players ahead of him in the Ireland pecking order. He's been overtaken by Ryan, Beirne and Baird in the last few years.

    I don't begrudge him moving to France. He's good enough to play high level rugby and he's not getting picked for Ireland so he might as well get better paid for it in France.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,634 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    and Syd ill take a huge dollop of salt to your mutterings. i seem to recall you were one of the lads bigging up the Pap signing as well as BOD.

    LOL you will absolutely NOT find me saying anywhere that Papalii was a great signing.

    The only thing ive even said about that guy is that he was a moneyball signing and wouldnt have cost connacht much.

    But anyway niall, your knowledge of test rugby much be very lacking if all you think a player has to do to get a team place is to "speak out"... actually that pretty derogatory against Dillane that you question his character like that.

    His personal circumstances are very tragic and it took him a good while to regain his form after, but unfortunately he was simply bypassed at national level. Its not a good reflection of a lock hen the easiest way to score a try aginst your team is by mauling them o death, and Dillane suffers from the whole "connachts lack of oomph" up front in that respect.



  • Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    moneyball was far too kind. it was a **** signing and i said it from day dot. imagine if one of the 8s had gone there instead. all that time wasted. infuriating when you really think about it.

    nah i mean he didn´t even mutter a word unlike a few other players, Cooney included. nothing to do with them saying they have to. it actually shows great character, so yeah wrong end of stick from you as usual. clearly the opposite happens. Any player who has spoken out hasn´t really got selected. so of course thats not the way.

    yeah he lacks a bit of oomph but so do a number of our locks and we´ve clearly pivoted away from the big bruisers of the past. we went for a NZ style athletic 15, and somehow Dillane doesn´t fit the bill. smartest sytem in the world and all that. moneyballesque indeed.

    Dillane, like Cooney and a number of other players past and present has been clearly dicked over. Media bullshit, contracts, poor NIQ signings, **** players like Kleyn and the rest.

    Anyway i get it whatever i say you´ll say the opposite. got it.

    Its maddening that we lose a player like Dillane who ticks a load of boxes beyond the actual field, and the general gist is a shoulder shug imo.

    irish rugby as usual, daft.

    this is the future for Ireland i´d imagine. we will lose a load of players this way.

    Dillane and Connacht in a sense were dicked over by the way Dillane was basically taken for granted.

    But sure lets just get a Kleyn mark ii and we´ll be grand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,021 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I doubt Papali'i being there prevented anyone from going to Connacht.

    More likely they signed Papali'i precisely because they couldn't get anyone good.

    As for Dillane, it's a pity it didn't work out better for him but realistically, he was never as good as we all hoped he would be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭PMC83


    As good as Dillane was, he wasn't as good as others. He fell behind, simple as. Thats why he wasn't picked. He wasn't 'dicked' around by anyone. I never understood this attitude that certain players are 'being harshly treated by the IRFU' because they've shown promise but not been favored at international level. No ones intitled to a green jersey.

    At the end of they day Dillane never had any type of long term hold on an international jersey-19 caps over nearly 5 years?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    This being the issue. He wasn’t dicked over, there were just better players or players who were more in line with what the coaches needed from their locks ahead of him. I doubt he took it personally, though clearly some do on his behalf.

    Dillane was a great impact sub but probably not ever really going to be a starting lock for Ireland. I wonder will Baird end up in the same category.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    Could anyone honestly say Baird is a better second row than Dillane? I say a second row because potentially and athletically Baird probably has the edge. But if squads were picked on the best players available Dillane would have been ahead of Baird.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭PMC83


    I think if Andy Farrell is picking Baird over Dillane then hes honestly saying it. At the very least hes saying Dillanes hit his ceiling and Baird hasn't, so why not invest more time in Baird?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,581 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I don't think Baird is as good as Dillane. He might be in the future. I wonder if Dillane played for Munster or Leinster, would he have more caps?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    picking potential over current ability is an argument to say Dillane has been treated harshly.

    I personally do see the logic in having potential in there but It isn’t crazy to say Dillane probably deserves to have more caps to his name.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭PMC83


    Who would you have dropped for him? Personally I didn't think he ever amazing. I remember when he exploded onto the scene he looked great, rumours of Munster after him and so on, but his really impressive spell didn't last long. Henderson and Ryan were better carriers, Toner was amazing in the lineout. For me Dillane was a jigsaw piece that never fit right. Joe was hesistant to pick him, Andy is now, so I'd imagine they felt similar.

    I'd agree with people who say John Cooney was hard done by, because for about 18 months he was consistently man of the match and a game breaker for his team. Dillanes never been that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    Well as I said, Bairds caps are the obvious ones Dillane could have had added to his tally. Possibly toner towards the end but as said toner was invaluable to the line out


    Dillane has rightly been behind Henderson, Ryan and Beirne



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭PMC83


    How Jean Kyln got in ahead of anyone (including Dillane) is the real mystery to me



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,050 ✭✭✭ElisaAtWar


    What you say about Ultan being behind players in the Irish setup is harsh but fair. And I suspect Ultan recognized the writing on the wall. It is no disrespect to a player to say others are better players. Ultan is a very good player and will have a fine future in front of him. His decision to move to France makes absolute sense to me



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,050 ✭✭✭ElisaAtWar


    Maybe one of the most mystifying moves in the last week's was Conor Murray under a new central contract even though no longer first choice.

    Within rugby there has to be a point when it must be recognized there is no further point using players that simply can no longer handle the pace of the modern game. It is no reflection on these players, simply an understanding that the game has become faster and faster over recent years and not everyone is fast enough



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,050 ✭✭✭ElisaAtWar


    And while it is sad to hear the news that Peter Robbs contract will not be extended, I doubt if he will be the only player of note to leave Connacht by the end of the season.

    I think back to when the likes of Eoin McKeown was let go and how sad I felt for the guy. But times move on.

    And the players know it themselves. We can see it but they have to live with the disappointment. It's harsh but a harsh reality



  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭jimdemp


    This is a lot like the james ryan not getting picked for the lions. Both are too slim for a modern day lock



  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭jimdemp


    "ceiling"

    what will be the buzz word of 2022? Cant wait until bod decides



  • Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    yeah nobody is entitled to a jersey. however we´ve clearly had a system for decades where certain players get free passes despite form. so you can pick and choose. plenty of players were harshly treated by the system despite their form. i mean its not even up for debate really. if you don´t think Cooney or Dillane were fobbed off by current management and Schmidt, well then i´m not going to bother with this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    i´d be fairly certain it pissed him off. Kleyn got ahead of him. anyway no point arguing with many on here. if some said that the grass is green, you´d argue the toss. an utter waste of time. Fine Dillane wasn´t dicked over and its just fantastic that he´s moving to France.

    i mean the real mystery is people talking about a lack of bulk, and then going on about Ryan or Baird. Ireland has clearly moved away from that type of player (wrongly imo). The days of a Casey, a Browne etc are long gone. that giant in Belvo will be told to slim down.

    Losing a homegrown lock is a disaster really, and it shows the Connacht ceiling for what it is. i mean why he couldn´t go to Munster and Jenkins take a hike, is a mystery.

    anyway hopefully Connacht sign two NIQ to replace DIllane and PAp, that will be fantastic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭TRC10


    You have an argument with Cooney

    but come on now, Dillane was right where he belonged in the pecking order. He's not better than Henderson, Ryan, Beirne, Toner 3 years ago, and probably Baird now.

    Dillane got a start v Japan in the summer and he was poor. Baird was far better when he came on.

    He's a big loss to Connacht for sure and hopefully they get a good replacement. But honestly he's no loss to Ireland, may be harsh but it's true.

    The notion that he was "dicked over" is just you looking for something to get outraged about. He was never that good and 19 caps is about right. I wish him all the best in France because he's a good player and I actually met the guy after the Pro12 final in 2016 and he's a lovely fella.



  • Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    its not outrage. and i´m not arguing that he was owed caps or something. he´s not going to be starting for Ireland currently but he was better than Kleyn when he was culled from the WC squad. look he was dicked over in that sense. constantly called up to squads without being given any minutes whatsoever, even in dead rubber matches. look if you think thats right grand. as i´ve said he´s just one player in a long long list of talented enough players weirdly treated by Ireland, coaches and media, weirdly nitpicked for some flaw, that exists in incumbents. lack of oomph in Dillanes case. as if he´s solely responsible for maul defence. its laughable really.

    But anyway Ireland´s and ultimately Connachts loss. it will be the first of many i´d imagine.

    Robb is another example of what we´re about. always moaning that we don´t produce big phsyical men yet here we cut another. it was the same when somebody was asking about Sexton on one of the other threads, saying he should play 7s full time. as if we don´t need physical athletic players.

    Dillane was a hard hitting athletic second row, that brought diversity and new pastures to Irish rugby. losing him to France shouldn´t be a shrug shoulders kind of event.

    anyway id expect it to start an avalanche of talent leaving when they get caught in the system. I was wrong when i thought it would happen a while ago, but now we really do have good depth. Probably see the same thing with Hume, when he can´t dislodge Ringrose.

    Its hardly encouraging for a Penny or a Deegan to see what happens. I think COnnacht might struggle to shake the perception of the ceiling. Only Aki has really managed it. its such a short sighted blight on Irish rugby. we have enough talent to have 4 strong provinces.

    anyhoo..



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,300 ✭✭✭freyners


    Wooten not being picked after being on press duty would make me think he has picked up some sort of knock or illness. Hope it's minor. Would really like to see a Hansen Porch Wooten back three at some point.


    Looking very light at lock again. Masterson has always performed incredibly well there which is some comfort but it's probably our shallowest position after ten



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,224 ✭✭✭ClanofLams


    Big fan of TOH but think he hasn’t shown his best in a while, thought he struggled at Welford Road. Would have liked to see Porch at 15 and Wootton (if fit) on wing.



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