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Rose Of Tralee now accepting trans applicants (Threadbanned List in OP)

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Comments

  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If they all identified as female and they are allowed to enter, then why wouldn't it be acceptable?

    And you still haven't explained how they directly conflict with biological females rights?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    News to me that it's a biology exam that they're going in for. You've called it unacceptable but still can't really produce a reason for it being an issue. I'll ask again, is there some physical advantage that trans women who haven't transitioned possess? Will they do a stellar party trick that other contestants can't compete with?


    Also as @Annasopra pointed out, you pretty clearly don't understand the gender recognition act which does not require surgery..



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So, if you believe that it would be acceptable, in a hypothetical scenario, for 100% of Rose of Tralee participants to be biological males, who self-identify as women; then I can't really argue against that.

    That, to me, is a position of faith.

    And like all positions of faith, no evidence or argument could possibly be produced to sway your opinion on the matter, as you'll always find a way to make it work. Hence why I always refer to theologians; who also always make their belief work through their own set of bizarre linguistic acrobatics. And that's their right - and for similar reasons, I take issue with them too.

    And on the conflict question you raise, I've thrice mentioned that, if a biological male who self-identifies as a woman takes the place of a biological woman in what's classified as a woman's competition, then that biological woman has been discriminated against. That would have been her position, and now it has been occupied by a biological male who self-identifies as a woman. That is a direct conflict, in exactly the same way that it's a conflict when a biological male who identifies as a woman takes the place of a biological woman in a given sport. The principle remains the same. I don't care who wins, that's neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned; what I'm concerned about is the biological category in competitions and how biological women are displaced by biological males who self-identify as women.

    The same is true of the Rose of Tralee.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,329 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Do think MENSA might need to review their acceptance criteria though since Eskimo supports the gender recognition act but doesn't seem to understand it...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How would that impact my argument, even if it were true?

    Only biological women should enter women's competitions.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    In your opinion, you haven't illustrated an actual issue with somebody self identifying and competing. Transgender women have been allowed to compete for years by the way. On top of that, the contest has far more to do with gender than biology. You're basically relying on a vague claim of discrimination because the criteria has changed. (Years ago btw)



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    You havent been able to say why though other than "ohmygerd penis"

    Thats your entire argument really.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Yeah. Lots of questions remain unanswered in the thread. Like how can you claim to oppose Self ID but support the Gender Recognition Act.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    In fairness, Eskimo has previously objected to two male dancers in Strictly Come Dancing... And sure nobody watches that now cause audiences just wouldn't stand for it... :D



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I've very clearly stated what the issue is: that, as with sport, a place is denied to a biological woman in favour of a biological male who identifies as a woman.

    I can't make it any clearer than that, sorry.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭John Doe1


    This Woke/Trans ideology has really filled in the vacuum left by the Catholic church nicely.

    You question the dogma even a little bit and you get the Spanish inquisition.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a feminine male who is homosexual but that does not mean they are the same as a biological female even if they get surgery and change their hormonal structure through artificial means. Only someone so invested in Trans dogma would counter this.

    Trans people should absolutely be treated with respect and dignity but that should not come at the expense of diminishing what is means to be a man/woman.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,329 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    You said - "it's possible to conceive of a Rose of Tralee where the only participants were biological males - who identified as women. No surgery required."

    A biological male who identified as a woman is not a transwoman. The transition is the process and your discription here is that of someone who has NOT undertaken that process, so a "biological male who identified as a woman" is NOT a transwoman. Thus proves you don't know the difference between a transwoman and a biologial male.

    The also believe surgery is involved. This proves your ignorance on the process of trasitioning.

    QED - you don't actually know what a "trans applicant" is and you think bioloigical males and transwomen are the same thing.

    Case closed.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And the contest has far more to do with gender... You've not demonstrated large-scale objections from potential contestants or even former contestants cause most simply don't mind, that's the reality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Basically this can be rephrased as "Trans people should be treated with respect but there is something wrong with them and they shouldnt be acknowledged as real."

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,275 ✭✭✭km991148


    Kinda hard to respect someone when you deny their existence (several times in one post no less) and belittle them, isn't it? I mean can you even begin to explain how that works in practice?

    Also kinda amusing to talk about 'questioning'

    All trans people face are constant questions from people that have no interest in understanding.

    Your post is pure mockery but of course I expect you will use this to cry about something something wokeness and how I have proven your (delusional) point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    It's so ignorant to make comments like this, when anyone who steps outside of pro trans orthodoxy is attacked. Even if most women were against it, few would speak up, due to the likelihood of getting attacked by the trans lobby, who aren't known for their moderate approach to dissent. It's like saying that China is a great country, because few Chinese speak out against it.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    So if a trans woman has had surgery then you are ok with her entering then.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    "Your lack of familiarity with my dogma means you don't know what you're talking about"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Can you point to a large group of Irish cis women expressing outrage?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,354 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Highly disingenuous to ask that question when you know nobody publicly will speak out against it for fear of backlash. FFs JK Rowling for the 20th reunion of harry potter only featured from archive clips due to her views. If you think because nobody is speaking about it publicly means everybody is happy with it you are deluded.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Cool, so back to the absence of any real objections being proof. And also the reality is the competition chose to change the rules. In this case, transgender contestants have been allowed for years, they have simply chosen to explicitly enshrine it in the rules. Miss Universe also allows transgender contestants and have for years. The only real outcry tends to be from people who have it in for transgender people at every turn.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Not really. Most Irish cis women aren't bothered at all. Its laughable to have all these comments that they are. Of course some are but they are in the minority.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,275 ✭✭✭km991148



    More conjecture. Where do these opinions come from exactly?

    'Even if..' 'it's like' etc etc - what nonsense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    I missed the polling on Irish womens views towards having the status of women extended to the entire human race, obviously you have it to hand so lets have a look at it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,354 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    I doubt most care much either but to outright say because people aren't publicly speaking out about it means they agree with it is completely disingenuous when you and everybody here knows Full well the backlash they would face.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    What are you even on about? Noone is saying all men are women.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Theres a few of the usual suspects on twitter but the reality is most Irish women are not bothered. Theres no evidence to prove theres loads of Irish Cis outraged women.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,329 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    It highlights your ignorance of and lack of understanding of basic relevant terms that you claim to understand but don't.

    It's not your opinion im challenging, it's your logic.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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