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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭dublin49


    I think an area that needs to be nailed down one way or another is the report that Bailey said on the night of the murder to Jules he might go over to Alfies and his premonition something bad was going to happen,is it only me or this not explosive ,if it can be held up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 931 ✭✭✭flanna01



    The Guards interviewing some French dude is interesting..

    I wonder could it be the ex boyfriend? If so, why? Has some new information come to light that casts doubt on his original alibi?

    As far as I am aware, there was at least two new leads from Irish residents...

    1) Some former friend of Jules stated that she confided in him, that she had washed some bloody garments.

    2) Some 'visitor' to the prairie, recalled seeing a black garment soaking in a bucket shortly after the murder had occurred.

    Of course both these statements are subject to hearsay.. The obvious question being, why bring it up now after so many years...??

    The scratches and cuts mantra is just going around in circles at this point, and no longer has any significance to the case anymore..

    • I understand the relevance of the scratches to the posters that have Bailey down as the murderer.. I Understand 100% But the DPP threw it out 25yrs ago, and there is no physical evidence left to re-examine today, his hands are healed, as is his forehead, there is nothing to gain that isn't already known.
    • My honourable friend that is like a scratched record (excuse the pun), keeps banging on about the said scratches and cuts.. But they are completely irrelevant at this stage. Even if Bailey did kill her, no proof will ever be gained from his hands.

    Some posters on here who are convinced Bailey is the guilty party, put up logically, coherent reasoning as to why they have reached that conclusion, and it makes sense to me. It's all circumstantial evidence that they use to prove Bailey did it... Same as my circumstantial evidence that leads me to believe that he didn't.

    But.... And this is the game changer. No matter what, every man in this Country is entitled to the presumption of innocence until deemed otherwise by a selected jury of his peers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,682 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    "It's the only turn off along a 1.5km stretch of road. You would want to be trying really hard to go astray on a stretch of road where there is no other turn off."

    Here's Kealfada from the bridge to the fork in the road, 2km;

    Turns 1, 2, 3, and 4 (not counting turnoffs with gates)


    All these turn offs are visible in the 1995 aerial maps, I can't tell if they were tarred or still gravel in 1996.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭dublin49


    OJ was an innocent man after his trial ,Jimmy Saville died an innocent man,the court here is the court of public opinion ,thats all,and when we peter out Ian Bailey will be an innocent man.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't know about going to Alfie s but jules said IB said he felt something bad was going to happen. I have the clip let me know if you want me to upload it



  • Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭Summitatem


    • "My honourable friend that is like a scratched record (excuse the pun), keeps banging on about the said scratches and cuts.. But they are completely irrelevant at this stage. Even if Bailey did kill her, no proof will ever be gained from his hands."

    I asked was the conflicting reasons given for the headscratch resolved.... They haven't been despite your repeated babbling. You are the broken record 😂


    I specified forehead cut... Yourself and the other expert didn't even know about the conflicting statements it seems.


    The garment soaking in a bucket isn't a new lead. You could familiarise yourself with the case prior to babbling....id suggest you... Read the thread TBH.


    The French thing is the babe Marie picking out someone from photographs Jim was showing her. Nothing to go with Sophie's ex. You can stop wondering about that now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭dublin49


    please yes ,not sure what level of veracity to attach to this aspect.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Has anyone been able to identify where this Hunt's Hill is?

    Looking at the local topography I can't see how it would have been possible to see Alfie's house from anywhere on the route from Schull to where Jules and Ian lived.

    You have to travel three quarters way up the cul de sac before you can see Sophie's or Alfie's house because they are tucked into a cleft in the hill. Being able to see and pick out either from somewhere between three and ten km away is difficult to square.

    Clarifying this might throw some light on the credibility of the claims, disputed by Jules, of Ian thinking about going over to Alfie's or having a premonition about something bad going to happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,682 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    This is a post from July with Sophie's house pinpointed by Google maps as "the house of Sophie toscan du plantier."



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12 DavidBradley




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Well the search no longer returns a result (in the mobile app anyway) so the search term seems to have been blocked sometime in the last six months.



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭flopisit


    What you are suggesting is a hitman scenario where one person is giving another person directions to go and kill sophie.

    So who do you think those people are? Since it is not any of the locals who know the area well...



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭flopisit


    The article you posted is wrong on a number of points, because the joker who wrote that doesn't understand what GSOC is talking about.

    For example: The 139 missing witness statements. GSOC is talking about the original handwritten statements. They have the typed copies.

    The gate. For the 100th time, the gate was discarded in 1997 by the forensics lab because it had been tested and was of no further evidential value. In 2012 when GSOC was looking for it, the gardai did not know where it was because they were not the ones to discard it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 931 ✭✭✭flanna01



    You really are like a scratched record... Seriously, you are!

    The head scratch that obviously keeps you awake at night.... It might have been a stick, a branch, a turkey...?? Who cares??

    Did we not already discuss the hairline scenario..?? Either you don't accept that reasoning, or you can't comprehend something that differs from your own personal views on the matter.. Either way, I couldn't care less.

    You are clearly not up to date.. During the summer, a 'new' witness came forward alleging there was a dark garment soaking in a bucket in the kitchen.. This witness had not made a previous statement, hence the wording 'new lead'.

    I suspect you are no more than a troll...? Or maybe a 10yr old child messing on Mammy's laptop??



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    All I am suggesting is that one should not make any unfounded assumption that the murderer must be a local. They may have been or they may not have been.

    Any conclusions should be based on solid evidence, not supposition.

    One of the major problems is that there appears to be little solid evidence, we don't know exactly when Sophie was killed. It could be anywhere in an eight or nine or more hour window. We don't know why and we have no forensic evidence to track down her killer. The answer may be an unknown unknown.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12 DavidBradley




  • Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭Summitatem


    You see flanny... Accepting your reasoning isn't here nor there. I'll repeat ... I asked for clarity on resolution of the conflicting statements on the forehead scratch...there never has been.

    It's incredibly simple.

    It seems that either Ian or Jules are lying about something that happened at approximately the same time Sophie was murdered according to the comments of interest which some won't accept as being valid. You, like your teammate don't like what it might be so dismiss it as "sorted" etc. I think you couldn't sort your sock drawer 😂

    No need to get agitated with your troll and mammy laptop comments.


    Your new lead theory is old news..... The witness had made a statement previously...

    Italian woman who was staying with Bailey and Jules at the time of the killing told Netflix she saw a coat being washed in a bucket at the house....... However, in her statement to gardai, she had said she saw clothes being cleaned in the bath.



    I suspect you are referring to the claim that Jules was cleaning bloodied clothes..that witness saw nothing but was recounting a chat from 20 ish years ago .... HTH

    Post edited by Summitatem on


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,272 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Despite repeated asks and warnings to keep the debate civil, this thread remains a sequence of bickering, insults and a clutch of regular posters insulting each other. So I'm closing this thread for a day or so, to let people cool off and consider their debating style. The season that's in it obviously has had no effect 🙂

    If you haven't already, some of you need to read the charter regards behaviour and manner towards others. Robust debate is fine, encouraged even, but if you can't make your point without resorting to insults and put downs, this forum ain't for you.




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,272 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Reopened the thread: hopefully those more antagonistic posters will have considered their posting style in future. By all means continue the discussion but if you feel the need to take personal pot shots or comments about other users - don't.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14 LeVealerooooo


    Is this shut indefinitely? Thank you



  • Registered Users Posts: 14 LeVealerooooo





  • Registered Users Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭appledrop


    I'd recommend everyone watch the Netflix documentary aswell as both of them together gives a good overall insight.

    Overall definitely should have been an actually trial, think DPP made a mistake there but then Gardai also messed up / were unlucky with maintaining some of evidence.

    The 'bonfire' definitely happened after the event. Jules said in this programme oh it was Oct or maybe Nov but very clear from Netflix one that it was fresh fire from pictures they had.

    Once again biggest evidence against him for me is Bailey himself. I'm even more convinced now he did it.

    Very strange scenario of body being found around 10am at time when no mobile phones etc yet both Jules & Bailey telling people shortly after this in town etc that body of French woman found+ driving to scene but word on ground at time was only that is was a foregnier not French person until later on.

    Then of course the amount of witnesses that reported Bailey saying he did it was unreal.

    The way he tried to justify his domestic abuse against Jules was sick. Basicially saying sure she was to blame not just him.

    We would have never have know all this detail only for civil case against newspapers.

    Now in fairness, I wouldn't put it pass Gardai at the time to have harassed him a bit as he said + they were probably getting frustrated because he wouldn't confess but that doesn't mean he is innocent.

    Definitely don't agree with French court system, that's just mad way to convict someone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭DontHitTheDitch


    So we're on the other side of Christmas and having now dragged my own and my elderly parent's real christmas trees into and out of the house with my bare hands, I can confidently say there are no visible scratches visible on my hands or arms and there was never any sign of any. Our own christmas tree was dried out and very spiky when it came time to remove it but despite lots of stinging prickles, there are no visible marks. I even surprised myself since the netting that the tree had been packaged in was completely tangled in the heavy base so I had a drawn out wrestling match with that one.

    Anyone out there get scratches that strangers would notice while manhandling their christmas trees?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    You should wait a few days and ask a dermatologist if there are any visible markings. If there are none you might very well be Ian Bailey!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    His previous violence would have been be a red flag If the Garda did not take it into account they would not be doing the duty. Also anyone else who had similar history should have raised a red flag

    Whether he killed her or not he is a violent thug despite efforts to soften his image here by someone who is connected to him and speaking to him. Part of propaganda by pro bailey supporters I guess. Infiltrate social media sites.

    I'm beginning to think he may be guilty...



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,682 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    "Knowing where it is I could give idiot proof instructions how to get there from Schull in four short sentences.
    It's the only turn off along a 1.5km stretch of road. You would want to be trying really hard to go astray on a stretch of road where there is no other turn off."
    

    There is no 1.5 km stretch of that road with only one turn-off.


    And this from Bamboozle;


    "FFS. Turn off the coast road at Kealfadda bridge, about 3/4 of a mile up turn left. The house is the first one you come to. A child could find it on a tricycle."
    

    Firstly , the road is Kealfada, the bridge is Ballyrisode Bridge

    and as someone who set out to kill Sophie with your directions ... well... look at the map from 1995 below;

    What I'm saying is;

    the house would be difficult to find in darkness, by anyone not familiar with the locality in 1996.

    This leaves us with someone local and someone who has visited the house like Bruno and the Frenchman

    who visited the house with a view to buying it before Sophie.

    I don't know if Daniel D. P. would know be able to give directions to a hitman.

    It's easy to find the house now with your Google maps and Streetviews and Eircodes and L. roads numbered.

    Directions then would have been mostly visible ones; Bridges , pubs etc. and stopping to ask directions.

    I'd like to know what directions Alfie gave the Guards for instance,

    and how the Guards directed the Priest and Doctor to the right place, and it would be daylight then.

    It doesn't mean that it's not someone outside these groups, but it is a major factor.

    Post edited by chooseusername on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,920 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Did you cut the tree with a saw off the top of a tree yourself - this is how he supposedly got the scratches not from buying a packaged christmas tree or dragging an already cut christmas tree. Im not saying he is right but you cannot compare his story to what you have outlined yourself above.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This is hilarious. You think unwrapping your Mammys Christmas tree is the same as climbing up a large tree with a saw and cutting six foot off the top of it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭tibruit


    The gardaí sent a man up a tree to do exactly what Bailey did and guess what...no scratches. The guys that did the body language youtube video examined an RTE interview where he explained the turkey scratch. I actually thought that they were a bit unprofessional about it all because they couldn`t stop laughing. But in the end they got to the point. The expert journalist and as someone else called him "man of many words" was unable to articulate a simple event which he claimed did happen. The fact is that when you are recalling the truth, it is simple to explain it.



This discussion has been closed.
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