Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

end of the road · 01-01-2022 6:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401275#Comment_118401275

it is if you are irish.

a little tipple is our culture and that is never going to change thank jesus.

end of the road · 01-01-2022 6:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401331#Comment_118401331

we can as both are charges to prop up certain sectors.

water charges was a bank bailout tax and MUP is an indirect vintner's subsidy.

Fr Tod Umptious · 01-01-2022 6:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401605#Comment_118401605

You have yet to give a single source for any of your statements.

I've posted more than one to counter both the argument that it's not working in Scotland and that drug deaths are up in Scotland because of MUP

But from yourself, nothing.

elperello · 01-01-2022 6:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401444#Comment_118401444

I expect you will agree that the consumption level of six cans and a bottle of wine per week between two people is not harmful.

If you do decide to reduce your consumption that is your personal decision.

On the other hand someone else at the same level of consumption may decide to continue with their non harmful legal drinking.

They face paying €364 per annum for the privilege of continuing to enjoy their drinks.

This is due to Government legislation ie. MUP.

When Government by taxation, charges or legislation like MUP increases prices to the consumer the fiscal effect is the same no matter what the reason.

Put simply that effect is more money taken from peoples pockets.

Fr Tod Umptious · 01-01-2022 6:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401623#Comment_118401623

I used to live in the US, and there was always a stereotype in the US of the Irish being drunks.

I argued against that with Americans at the time saying it was not the case.

Then I moved home after about 6 years and realized just how much closer it was to the truth than I thought.

Drink is everywhere and it takes center stage in so many things.

Look at the state (pre COVID) of any busy town on a Saturday night when the pubs and nightclubs are closing.

It's mayhem.

Christinings, weddings, funerals, drink plays a huge part.

A British Indian colleague of mine asked me one day why when Irish people ask you about a wedding you were at why is the first question they ask is "what time did it finish ?"

I was at a wedding recently and a guest at the table got up and got a drink for the whole table, except me, because I was the only one at the table not drinking alcohol. I didn't count when it came to his generosity it seems.

On the non drinkers fourm here on boards a poster is asking what would be a good nonalcoholic draft to buy at a night out to hide the fact that they were not drinking alcohol and thus could avoid the "inevitable questions".

Why are there inevitable questions ?

Why do people even have to apologize for not drinking ?

Why does the non drinker at the wedding not deserve to have a drink bought for them ?

Why can a kid not go to a sporting event like a rugby international without wall to wall drink advertising ?

Why does so so much resolve around drink.

It doesn't have to be that way.

We really need to change our relationship with drink, and saying it's our culture does just not cut it.

01-01-2022 6:40pm

If the excess cash spent due to mup was going towards healthcare, I would reluctantly accept it and begrudgingly admit that it was a step in the right direction towards combating alcohol abuse.

If it lines the pockets of businesses that the government are essentially branding as drug dealers, then I call shenanigans.

If a drug dealer sells drugs at a high price, the government are ok with it.

Clown world.

MakersMark · 01-01-2022 6:56pm

Good beer and wi e will hopefully remain the same price.

Cheap muck will go up, hopefully binge drinkers will drink less.

Failing to see the downside.

Fr Tod Umptious · 01-01-2022 6:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401661#Comment_118401661

There was a high profile report a while back that said the only alcohol consumption level that is safe is zero.

Therefore your 6 cans and a bottle of wine per week is in fact harmful at some level.

And obviously cutting down on that would make it less harmful.

There is zero downside to reducing ones alcohol intake.

ASOT · 01-01-2022 7:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401757#Comment_118401757

You were probably a snobby **** about not drinking, so I'd imagine that's why he didn't get you anything.

Capt'n Midnight · 01-01-2022 7:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401233#Comment_118401233

Luckily it's not a factor outside working class and poor areas as otherwise we could have used excise to increase the price across the board and use it to fund healthcare.

odyssey06 · 01-01-2022 7:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401862#Comment_118401862

What drivel.

Define 'good'.

Define 'cheap muck'.

LIDL's €6 wine has to go up in price even though it is the same quality as an €8 wine in Tesco, Eurospar or off licence.

Are the biggest brand names of wine, beer and spirits 'cheap muck'? Their price will effectively go up as they can't be discounted below MUP - which they regularly are.

Is Tesco's own brand port cheap muck? That's gone up from €8.50 to €11.50.

Care to explain how it's cheap muck?

Do you just like being ripped off? Or are you just clueless?

Capt'n Midnight · 01-01-2022 7:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401757#Comment_118401757

"Why does the non drinker at the wedding not deserve to have a drink bought for them ?" You should know how gift giving culture works. The key feature is that gifts should be of equal value. No one should expect teatotallers to join in because they aren't consuming at the same rate or value.

If you want to argue about the price of soft drinks in pubs then talk to publicans because it's something that has literally driven people to drink.

Fr Tod Umptious · 01-01-2022 7:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401907#Comment_118401907

Your reply is typical of the attitude towards the non drinker that I was alluding to.

There has to be something"wrong" with them if they were not drinking.

I was driving actually.

Fr Tod Umptious · 01-01-2022 7:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401986#Comment_118401986

That's a weird attitude.

Don't ask the non drinker if they'd like a something because you don't expect that they should buy you one back.

Again it shows just how much different a person not drinking, for whatever reason is viewed in Irish society.

embraer170 · 01-01-2022 7:28pm

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

MUP = more profit for the big drinks companies (with less threat of the cheap competition) = more money for these companies to put into alcohol related marketing.

odyssey06 · 01-01-2022 7:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401869#Comment_118401869

All risks mortality studies consistently show moderate drinkers have lower mortality levels.

Bobeagleburger · 01-01-2022 7:39pm

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

The price change won't make a difference to most drinkers. Alcoholics and those who drink cheap shite are the losers here.

elperello · 01-01-2022 7:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401869#Comment_118401869

Given the season that's in it I'm in a generous mood so I'm posting a link to prove your point !

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/24/641618937/no-amount-of-alcohol-is-good-for-your-health-global-study-claims?t=1641060917991

In fairness the jury is still out on the claims in that study and as we all know almost every country supplies guidelines to citizens to show them how to drink safely.

These guidelines are signed off by medical authorities in each country such as The Surgeon General in the US. No country has tried to stop citizens drinking on health grounds.

To come back to our own HSE the amount contained in six cans of beer and one bottle of wine comes comfortably within the limits set.

So can we agree that the Irish Government are not trying to stop us all drinking by introducing MUP?

Many claims have been made for MUP by interest groups and politicians but nobody has said we should all stop drinking (although I suspect some might prefer if we did).

What is actually happening with MUP is that our sample couple are being forced by Government legislation to pay €364 extra per annum to consume a modest amount of drink which is within HSE guidelines.

Of course there is no downside to someone deciding to abstain from alcohol if that is their personal decision and as far as I'm aware nobody on this thread has claimed there is.

Capt'n Midnight · 01-01-2022 7:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401950#Comment_118401950

Define 'good'.

Define 'cheap muck'. +1 Beer is an acquired taste so you might as well acquire a taste for cheap beer.

Alternatively all lagers taste similar if chilled long enough in the freezer. Brand names use that one a lot. On the other hand if there's a super abundance of hops you can even drink it warm, but multiples of what you'd find in English ~~Dishwater~~ Bitter.

Beer was originally a health drink because water was dodgy back in the day and a lot of people now have genetic tolerance for it.

Fr Tod Umptious · 01-01-2022 7:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118402108#Comment_118402108

Lower mortality rates than what ?

Here is a BBC report on the study I was thinking about

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-45283401

Edit: Ok I see you posted it already.

silver2020 · 01-01-2022 7:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401869#Comment_118401869

There's a report out almost every month. I'll show you ten reports showing a low level of alcohol is good for every report that says it's bad

I could even ask the same questions in a different way and get different answers from medics.

Basically these "reports" no matter what they say are to be taken with a pinch of salt.

But mup will make a change to the harmful drinking that goes on. Those against it should visit an a+e dept at night.

odyssey06 · 01-01-2022 7:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118402140#Comment_118402140

Nonsense. Unless you think most drinkers have never bought the most popular branded beer wine spirits on offer?

Or lidl aldi own brand spirits beer and wines. A quarter of the population shop there.

01-01-2022 7:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118402031#Comment_118402031

Pno. It's a perfectly acceptable assumption. Someone drinking a soft drink shouldn't be expected to be included in rounds because it is a negative for them.

They drink at a different pace than those drinking an alcoholic drink and drink less frequently and it would be much more expensive than remaining on their own.

It is removing the expectation that someone should be out of pocket because they are drinking a cheaper drink.

That's some bizarre gymnastics to frame it as if they are being punished.

01-01-2022 7:54pm

This is so wrong. They must address the reasons why people consume. Where my home is, wine can be €2 for a litre, vodka can be €6, and no special problems

Fr Tod Umptious · 01-01-2022 7:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118402236#Comment_118402236

But should they be given the courtesy of being asked if they would like another drink ?

Actually I just reread this part

Someone drinking a soft drink shouldn't be expected to be included in rounds

That's pathetic.

Just ask them if they want a drink.

Typical of the attitude towards non drinkers.

odyssey06 · 01-01-2022 7:59pm

There are no grounds for treating moderate consumption of alcohol as a matter of public health concern, other than in specific circumstances such as public order offences or drink driving - which contrary to MUP nonsense are more likely to occur in on sale scenarios.

Men who are heavy drinkers have a 25 percent increased risk of mortality due to all-causes and a 67 percent increase in mortality from cancer; however, these results were not significant in women. Men and women who engaged in moderate drinking had a 13 percent and 25 percent decreased risk of all-cause mortality, and 21 and 34 percent decreased risk of cardiovascular disease mortality, respectively. There were similar findings for light drinking for both men and women.

https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/articles/2017/08/14/12/54/consuming-alcohol-in-moderation-can-lower-mortality-risks

c.p.w.g.w · 01-01-2022 8:04pm

I am genuinely of the opinion that many of Ireland's addiction issues can be directly and indirectly linked to abuse during child hood...

I know of 4 alcoholic's...3 of which are in their 50's and have been the victim's of sexual abuse in a Christian Brothers School...and the other one is a son of one of the aforementioned 3 who had a horrible childhood due to his father suffering real bad with alcohol abuse and post probably PTSD(his no longer with us, took his life a few years ago, no body believed he'd been abused until a few years after his death)

You can make alcohol as expensive as you want, but unless we get to the root of the abuse we are pissing against the wind

Fr Tod Umptious · 01-01-2022 8:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118402082#Comment_118402082

I've always believed that if you want to tackle the alcohol problem you start with the advertising, visibility and promotion, not MUP.

Take away the tv ads, the ads at sports, the sponsorship of sports and gigs etc

Stop making the brands ubiquitous.

elperello · 01-01-2022 8:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118402262#Comment_118402262

This is an important point.

The drinkers who drink to get out of their head will still go to the supermarket/off licence on Tuesday.

They will be looking for something to take away whatever pain dominates their lives.

01-01-2022 8:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118402269#Comment_118402269

Lol. Ok.

A soft drink could be included in rounds but it would be unfair on the person drinking soft drinks as they would be losing money. It's more courteous and respectful to leave them out of rounds as to save them money and awkwardness when it comes to their turn.

Thankfully I don't usually sit with people who would have such a victim complex that they couldn't understand the basic societal concept of rounds and feel singled out and disrespected.

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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