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Irish language gets full EU status today

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,745 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    No need to double down.

    You are just another demeaner in the tradition of Gregory Campbell.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    LOL Francie badly triggered. Top quality trolling Dyr. 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,745 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Triggered?

    Just answering his post like others.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    My memories of learning Irish at school are pretty grim, zero passion, curriculum boring and rigid. Nobody really seemed interested in the language. Hours and hours spent at it yet most students left school without an ability to have a proper conversation in it after 13 years of learning. It has tainted my feelings about the language. I do not like it at all. I don’t view this new EU status with any great excitement either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,600 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Well-meaning EU minority languages box ticking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,745 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I'd wholeheartedly agree that our education system has a lot to answer for. Hard not to be excited at what the new interest in Gael Scoileanna will produce, you can sense the pride and interest the young have in speaking the language.

    The colonisers knew that the way to subjugate the native language and culture in the first place was to make people ashamed to speak it and stop using it in schools. My grandmother was born in the Donegal Gaeltacht and spoke of this feeling of inferiority, she wouldn't let her children speak it as a result and only in very late years did she regret.

    Reversing that process will pay dividends in the future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,006 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    In fairness (to francie!) the reply to me was just a "great replacement" dog whistle or maybe dog fart. I'm sure there's other threads for that.

    Before that a sarcastic story about "Shinners" which tbh really has little to do with actual question of whether the state (in Ireland or NI) should try and promote use of the Irish language or not via establishing Irish as a working EU language or by other means. Sinn Féin have never been in govt. here in Ireland + have nothing to do with making Irish an EU working language.

    The poster presumably doesn't like "Shinners" and also gets off looking in his cracked crystal ball. Predicting Irish people and language finally getting consigned to the dustbin of history makes him cry with laughter for some reason. Each to their own I suppose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭joebloggs32


    €€€€€€€€€€£££££££££££$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    200+ translators, officials and assorted add ons. With wages, employers contributions, expenses, office space, equipment etc., it will cost well in excess of €25,000,000 per annum, possibly an awful lot more. Fair enough, but it will do absolutely nothing to encourage or assist, one single person in this country or elsewhere to learn the language.

    I paid €130 a couple of years ago to attend a refresher course in Conradh na Gaeilge in Dublin for (I think) 10 x 2 hour classes with about 12 others. I see they're around €150 now. Maybe if they did something to reduce the price of this, then it may encourage some people to go back and learn it.

    Or maybe just promote speaking classes locally. Basic Irish conversation in local community halls or schools or libraries at night for whoever wants to pick it up again. Pay a fluent speaker to come along and help us. But they won't do something like that, or try any initiative. Instead they teach it not much differently from they way they did 30 years ago and we still have the overwhelming portion of the population having done 13 years of a language and struggling to put two sentence together.

    It's a waste of taxpayers money, but only a drop in the wastefulness that is EU bureaucracy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,745 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The 'triggered' taunt is basically 'how dare you answer back'.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How will it be reversed though? It doesn’t seem to be catching on in any significant way. People just aren’t using it in the required numbers. I can’t see it move beyond where it has been stuck for 100 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,745 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It won't be reversed, it will never be our first tongue again. The horse has bolted. It can still be a vibrant part of the culture though and that enhances us IMO



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,006 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    In fairness (to the EU bureacracy), it is the govt. here/Irish language lobbyists that looked for this. On stuff like this the EU will be guided by the policies & desires of the member states...so if Ireland wants Irish as a working language which given that our own constitution claims it is the primary national language is not unreasonable/insane looking in from outside, then that will happen.

    According to that article, reason this in the news is that even though Irish is an EU working language since 2004, a derogation Ireland had for translating all the EU legislation is now coming to an end.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    It's perfectly good Irish Francie, it's just phonetic so you can't run it through Google translate 😂

    You're not that far off Gregory yourself it turns out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,745 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I wasn't referring to your use of Irish.

    Greg used phonetics too in one of his efforts to demean.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Indeed and we could do with a referendum down south on the constitutional supremacy of the Irish language and if that is a true reflection of ourselves in 2022.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34 maceoin.D.


    There are many Irish speakers abroad as well. The language is actually still relatively popular. I don't see why we are still having debates concerning rights in the 21st century. Rough times or not, it's just another thing when it comes down to it. Shouldn't make or break anyone at the end of the day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,651 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Very much agree. The Irish language should be encouraged and supported. Some of the examples already given here are great and simple eg subsidise Irish classes. If republicans would take a step back in the north and stop forcing signage in areas where entire communities are not yet ready to embrace them, then the change in the unionist community to Irish could be swift and positive.

    it is a shame we have arrived in the place we have.



  • Registered Users Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Speedline


    Are you suggesting unionists should have a veto on dual language signage in Northern Ireland?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,651 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I am suggesting that the entire community work on a consensus to respect everyone’s cultural identities. That means that republicans also need to take some responsibility for the controversy around Irish signage and be part of the solution.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,745 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    ...and if gays would wait or women etc etc etc until Unionists are ready to be democrats, is what you are really saying.

    Republican have blocked nobody's rights downcow. You live in your communities you do not get to dictate how others live. Those days are over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,651 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Francie I told myself I would not rise to you again, but your method of baiting is difficult to resist.

    if republicans had not murdered our neighbours simply because they were unionists then we wouldn’t be where we are and we wouldn’t feel these the irish signage is just an extension of the campaign to get us to either keep our heads down or get out

    some hardline religious right unionists (and catholics) are a disgrace in their attitude to people who are gay, but you are ignoring the fact that unionists who are more progressive than you on gay and women’s issues are still completely opposed to forced Irish language signage

    this is one I’m with Anna Lo on



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,745 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The conflict/war in which many people on all sides died was settled on the basis of equality being established and maintained.

    Unionism are the only political ideology dragging their feet on that. On religious and cultural grounds.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    All comes down to the usual bitter hard-line rubbish.

    If the English hadn't forced us to give up our language, blah blah blah............

    The republicans are shoving it down our throats blah blah blah .........

    We gave it up, and now can't even get people interested enough to speak it even casually, which is such a shame. There is no reason for Ulster unionists not to speak it, there is no reason for Irish people not to speak it.

    It's the language of the Island, everybody should be proud to have it and speak it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,651 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    It is a tad patronising for you to tell me that I should be proud to speak Irish. You are pretending the issues that Anna Lo has raised are just nonsense.

    but anyhow, what I have learned already on here is that there is not this almost 100% desire from Irish people in the south to throw resources and commitment at increasing the reach of Irish. Rather it is a mixed bag. I wonder is that replicated up north. If that is the case then it would suggest that it is quite a small minority of our entire populating in ni who are interested in it. Would that be fair to guess?



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't think I'm being patronising to anyone, I think everyone in the island, no matter what their background could and should be proud of having a language on our island. I'm not suggesting that it is just for 'irish' people.

    But yes I think in general people don't really care. A big shame



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,651 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Well, we will agree to disagree. I believe people have a right to ‘not care’. I am not proud of Ulster Scots language and would never say that people should be proud of that language.

    I think Irish signage would be much more acceptable to people like me if we were not ‘told’ that it is ours and we ‘should’ embrace it.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sure don't so, if that's all that matters is that you're not told it's yours? What harm if there is Irish signage?

    I don't care about the signage in the country in other languages. Every motorway has signage in other languages, doesn't bother me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,745 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It's another strategic blunder from Unionism because the rights will be conferred from Westminster. An exceptional ability to drive into cul de sacs, must be the signage! 😀



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,651 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    You are missing the emotions it raises. We’ve had statements from republicans comparing Irish words to bullets in the struggle. Here is just one of many examples https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/sinn-fein-linguists-fired-bullet-into-language-of-our-politics-29994735.html

    this is why Irish signage is like flags on lampposts They both mark out areas as republican or loyalist and imply ownership by that group.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,651 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    That’s ironic from someone who claims unionists are Irish. You are suggesting that the brits will impose Irish signage on the Irish against the will of some. You couldn’t make it up.

    if you are suggesting that Irish signage will be successfully imposed universally across ni, then you are very out of touch. Not a chance. The attempt at dominance will continue in republican councils, but this will only grow the resistance. I think most unionists are very happy for loads of support for developing Irish language, but not dominance



  • Registered Users Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Speedline


    Would you not consider that dual language signage is akin to hanging the union jack and the tricolour side by side? After all, the road signs have English and Irish. How's that for inclusiveness?



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You are the one that said protestants see it as triumphalist by republicans. That's in their head.

    Many people see the Irish language as the language of the Island. Nothing to do with either side in Northern Ireland.

    Just language. Just language signs, same as other language signs here now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34 maceoin.D.


    Yeah, just another political tactic unfortunately. There has been a curiously selective process of determination when it concerns the rights and legislations that we have established in the past 30 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,545 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    downcow, do you think that the people who get angry at signs that have Irish Language on them, would get equally as angry seeing signs in Wales with Welsh on them or signs in Scotland with Scots Gaelic on them?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,545 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    What about "Republicans" having a veto on English language signage in their area then? No dual language signage if they don't want it either?

    As far as I am aware, the occupants of Doire have a strong preference for the name of their town/county and there are fights about them even using the English language version of that name. Never mind the Irish spelling of it



  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭it takes 2 2 tango


    What’s your thoughts on Welsh and Scottish Gaelic being recognised in the United Kingdom? If you believe they should be and agree with their recognition then why not Irish in Northern Ireland?

    As for Irish having official status in the EU I do think it’s a bid ridiculous. There aren’t many (in % of the population wise) people who can speak it fluently enough to follow political, economic and legal issues in the language and the aren’t any (to my knowledge) monolingual speakers of it.

    What this could lead to is documents being transcribed into Irish by translators (and not being read) and conferences translated into Irish by interpreters (and not being listened to).

    The number of people who “speak Irish” is exaggerated and having an A1 in the LC is no metric of this due to the ridiculous way it’s taught. There are probably more fluent speakers of Luxembourgish but this doesn’t have official status.



  • Posts: 8,385 [Deleted User]


    Every gaelscoil is oversubscribed. Easiest way to grow it, organically, would be to get more teachers qualified to teach in the language and convert schools



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,651 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Yes my point again. Many people non ni see union flags on lampposts simply as the flag of their national flag. The stuff about the butchers apron is in peoples heads



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,651 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Not at all. Everyone speaks and reads English (even the Eu). Also most roads are phonetically spelt Irish already as most people couldn’t pronounce them if they weren’t. Some councils are now adding a second Irish sign only spelt correctly. No English on most signs, so an English translation would be more appropriate



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,651 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    i don’t think I mentioned protestants seeing it as triumphalist?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,651 ✭✭✭✭downcow




  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭it takes 2 2 tango


    If you want to increase the number of speakers and people’s fluency then the teaching method MUST be overhauled.

    We need to have at least 2 days per week in national schools where Irish is spoken only. Or even the whole week.

    The JC/LC needs to move away from rote memorisation of poetry, prose etc. and focus more on ACTUAL language learning the way we do in German and French etc. Start teaching the present tense first for Christ sake. It was 6th class before I could conjugate verbs in the present tense as we were all taught the past tense first with stories etc.


    When we have fluency in conversational Irish then focus on learning off more complicated vocabulary and grammar.

    Unions will resist though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,651 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    To the best of my knowledge they are not controversial and no paramilitary group has been murdering Scots and making statements that every Scottish word spoken is another bullet in that struggle.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,651 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Sounds from this thread that more than unionists would resist 2 days pw compulsory irish



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,067 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    "Ulster Scots" looks a bit gas...



  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭it takes 2 2 tango


    I see where you’re coming from and I respectfully disagree with you. Yes, there are a number of people who only use the language as a political tool and their knowledge of Irish would barely go beyond Tiocfaidh ár Lá. There are a number of people who are genuinely interested in the language and want to use it benevolently (even I admit that they are few and far between).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭boetstark


    Take away the extra points allocated for doing certain subjects through Irish in the leaving cert. It would be easy to get places in gael scoil then.

    I know 2 relatives that attended those schools and never spoke a word of Irish again after their exams.



  • Posts: 8,385 [Deleted User]


    Why do they insist on a made up language as opposed to Scots Gaelic?



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