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Working From Home Megathread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,969 ✭✭✭Christy42


    If you can't counter what I said do not put words in my mouth. I specifically said many bad managers will be OK with wfh.


    That is BS to me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    You literally posted “if a good manager needs physical presence then they are no longer a good manager”. Your words, not mine.

    At least take ownership of the BS you write yourself.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I have a feeling Mrs O'Bumble and Andrew are mid 50's and are struggling to keep up in their current jobs with the younger generation.

    There afraid they will be find out that they actually do quite little and rely heavily on other members of thier team to get their work completed and find it much easier in the office than working from home.

    If they can't adapt or figure out how to work from home and how in hell do they have any type of a decent office job.

    They sound like a nightmare to work with and want everything handed to them, want an easy life and can't think outside the box.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭Sultan of Bling


    For everyone with that opinion, there's workers in their mid 50s who would say the same about the "snowflake", younger generation.

    I don't agree with everything Andrew says, but in fairness he has some valid points too.

    But I am intrigued why Andrew won't report their unsafe workspace to the HSA.

    They say they had previous dealings with them that were unsatisfactory.

    Unfortunately if that's their stance, then there's nothing that they can do and no amount of posts on here will change anything.

    I would advise Andrew again that if their workspace is unsafe go to the HSA whether you like them or not.

    Otherwise they are stuck where they are unless you change jobs



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,969 ✭✭✭Christy42


    I did say that and am happy to debate on that point. If the staff are at home a good manager needs to be able to adapt to this fact of life.


    I didn't say wfh means good manager which you claimed I was saying. I am happy to own what I said but I am not owning whatever it is you want to pretend I said.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,900 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Thanks for pointing out why "If you don't like the way your job has changed, just go and get a new job" isn't valid: you're not the only person with that attitude.

    I cannot speak for Andrew.

    But, yes, I'm 50-something. Have done a range of contracts since redundancy about 7 years ago. Currently on my 4th contact with my main company: they keep asking me back, so clearly they don't share your opinion of my performance. The job uses skills from many of my previous jobs, a person with less breadth of experience would struggle. Luckily I have to be in the office a few days each week (equipment, deliveries etc), because my apartment just isn't suitable for full-time WFH. But am quite happy that I'm there alone most of the time, because I don't rely on work for social contact.

    But here's the thing. It's not all about meeeeeeee!

    I don't only post about my own perspective. I see company-wide issues, eg managers getting burnt out with the extra communication workload they have. Changing a procedure is a lot harder, because getting some people to read, understand and act correctly on documented instructions is damn hard when they don't have an informal network to jolly them along. I know that some colleagues are really struggling with WFH (one's marriage has broken down, another has had mental health issues that weren't there before, one had to leave because he couldn't provide good-enough wifi and the company point-blank refused to let him into the office even though he wouldn't have been in contact with anyone).

    If WFH works for you AND for your company, great, I'm totally supportive - for YOU.

    But many posters here assume that because it's good for them, it's good for everyone and for every company. And that just ain't so.

    Post edited by Mrs OBumble on


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    It's funny how people have to twist things and create these mythical scenarios in order to justify taking a personal swipe at someone who's opinions they disagree with. It's nothing to do ability to 'figure out how to adapt'. You can adapt all you like, that doesn't change the employer's legal responsibility to ensure a safe workplace.


    It's a fair suggestion about reporting to the HSA, probably the kind of suggestion I'd give to others if the roles were reversed. Maybe I should just make the report to get it out of the way on these discussions, and confirm the lack of response from the HSA.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    All talk no action Andrew.

    Complain on boards for two years and do nothing about it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,964 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    I don't understand why employers have to ensure you have a safe working space at home if you apply for and get a wfh job or your current one changes to permanent wfh. It isn't and shouldn't be the responsibility of the employer imo. If I want to wfh, having the correct equipment and space and understanding I'm personally responsible for what I do in my own home is the minimum I would expect as an employer of a fully wfh employee. Crazy that it falls back on them. Same with mental health stuff in most jobs, shouldn't be the purview of the employer. Employment is getting weird, care more about your feelings than providing you with the knowledge and technology needed and a better wage in general.

    Will be interesting to see if one can now claim for commuting going forward. Might be something employers will have to offer if wfh becomes the majority want. But like above, I don't think the employer should be responsible for either (except for a few certain situations/jobs). Just like yer man in Germany successfully suing for falling down his own stairs... that's the crazy world some people want. Madness. 20-50 years time will be great with all the claims for back pains due to wfh. Then again, I think about most things differently.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    Funny how concerned you are about ergonomics and heatth and safety, yet commute using the most dangerous form of transport. Seven cyclists died in Dublin last year, seven people who if they had a car would be alive today.


    Why do you not consider the dangers of city centre cycling?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's a legislated requirement.

    Employers are required to ensure a safe work place regardless of the location.

    WFH does not absolve them of their responsibilities in this area



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭Sultan of Bling


    I think you'll find more car drivers are killed each year than cyclists



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,964 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Oh I know, but I don't agree with it. I'd prefer they put their time and efforts into paying me more and making sure I have the knowledge and tech needed, instead of pandering to a small group of employees who may use these Wellbeing crap. I just think a WFH employee, if having the choice of in office or WFH, has the responsibility of providing the space and knowledge to WFH as a minimum requirement of being a WFH employee. In an office, I'm given the furniture so it should be ergonomic and all that as that is 100% the employers responsibility, but if I'm WFH I should be in charge of that, and the employer shouldn't be responsible for me not making the right ergonomic decisions (the information is out there freely to everyone, so no excuse tbh).

    Great that employers can offer grants towards equipment in general, but the last 2 years are different because we were "forced" (where possible) to WFH so responsibilities are a bit different, but going forward, applying for a new job or agreeing to a change in contract to go permanent WFH, all that responsibility should be on the employee. Hell, some people can make jobs out of it by doing WFH seminars on how to do it right, you get a cert at the end and that helps towards your application, just like ECDL or ITIL (or whatever applicable acronym applies to your area).

    TL;DR - Going forward for new jobs/changes in contracts to permanent WFH, the H&S of a WFH employee should be on the employee. You don't apply for a delivery driver job, which requires you to have your own transport, in a Peel P50 and then expect the employer to provide a proper car.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Recently been moved roles where I now wfm. New role is with the call centre dept. Living in a house share, so I've the set up in my bedroom - hate that I can see my workplace in my bedroom. I wasn't supplied with a desk or a chair, had to sign an attestation that I had these, came out of pocket. It was suggested to me on Friday that I would work better with dual monitors as it would cut down my call time and I would need to provide that myself - so no! Didn't respond.

    I find it terribly lonely, I enjoyed even getting the bus to work, seeing partial faces. I feel like I'm trapped in my bedroom.

    If I wasn't moved role then I would of have had time off for Christmas, from Christmas eve till Thursday gone and the public holiday for new years day. I now have to work public holidays, just had the weekend off like I would normally. I didn't book time off as I expected I would have had the original time off for xmas.

    Since wfm, I find that I'm getting so lethargic, don't leave the house at all. Huge change from being in the office with customers, colleagues to a headset in my bedroom, where I'm being monitored and call scored.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    Not for the number of cars and the number of kilometres travelled.

    Cyclists are few in number and travel much less. But are more likely to die in slow moving city traffic as part of the daily commute.

    If Andrew was so concerned about safety, he'd buy a car like most other adults.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Where did you get 'done nothing' from? As explained repeatedly, this isn't about me. See if you can see the big picture.

    Honestly, this is just pathetic. Remember when I mentioned "It's funny how people have to twist things and create these mythical scenarios in order to justify taking a personal swipe at someone who's opinions they disagree with."? This is a prime example.

    1) Lots of people who cycle have a car. Cycling isn't some desperate last resort. This might be a shock to you, but lots of people choose to cycle, maybe for health reasons, maybe because they don't have time to sit in traffic jams, maybe for environmental reasons.

    2) Health benefits of cycling very substantially outweigh the risks. This is well established in peer reviewed research; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2920084/ If you're concerned about the dangers arising from transport choices, feel free to start grilling drivers about why they choose to increase their risks of cancer, diabetes, CHD, hypertension and more by driving.

    3) Far more people are killed and injured in cars than on bikes. Your claim that people 'would be alive today if they had a car' is a ghoulish, twisted fantasy.


    You're entitled to your opinion of course, but at present, the employer is responsible for ensuring that the employee has a safe workplace.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    That's just it though, the vast majority of these roles were not advertised as requiring the employee to provide office space, furniture, light and heat.

    Look at it the other way - you don't advertise jobs with a specified office location, and then expect the employee to provide a proper office.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    Just as I thought. You're not one bit worried about safety. If you were, you'd be taking a car and advocating other cyclists do the same. You can't have it both ways, moaning about employers responsibility regarding h+s while choosing the most dangerous method of commuting.

    I'm not the one who spent two years moaning about health and safety at work, so I've no interest in grilling drivers.


    Cyclists are the most vulnerable in the city, not cars.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Why would I be advocating cyclists to double their risk of cancer by not cycling?

    You did read that paper about how the health benefits of cycling considerably outweigh the risks, didn't you?

    What advice would you have for the many people on motorbikes, in cars, and on foot who were killed by motorists this year?



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,900 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    That sucks.

    Was it a voluntary move? If not, then I'd be job-hunting from next Tuesday. Even if it was, I'd be doing the same.

    One hint for ya: do a fake commute before you start each morning. Don't actually waste cash catching the bus - but have a good walk, buy a coffee to see at very least the cafe staff, etc, and get some fresh air in. Do it BEFORE you start work or even turn on the computer. Makes a huge difference for many people.

    Also, find out the company policies for what to do if you get a real stinker of a call, where the customer is giving you heaps. These are bad enough in the office, but when you get a toxic dose in your own home, it can be a lot harder to recover from. So you need a plan for what you'll do if it happens, so you can break the mental link between your resting place and work.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Honestly, sounds like a crap employer.

    Suggest that you take some time, review your options and make some decisions that work for you and what you want for your role/career.

    Don't be afraid to push back or move on. Many have



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,629 ✭✭✭Trampas


    Companies offering ergonomics for wfh. Did they offer it to same people when in the office?


    just cause in office doesn’t mean desk and chair is right



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Every employer I've had for the last 25 years, mix of public and private sectors, have done ergonomic assessments for office workplaces.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    Still not able to square that circle are you. I'm not the hypocrite criticing employers health and safety while purposely choosing the most dangerous method of cummuting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    There's no circle to square. Cycling is good for your health.

    That's why authorities all around the world are encouraging and incentivising cycling.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 25,900 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    There is a degree of danger associated with every method of commuting.

    It would be interesting to see statistics for deaths and serious injuries per km travelled. But totally off topic for this thread.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Comparison per km travelled would be of little relevance. Cyclists are consistently the lowest category of road deaths, less than drivers, passengers, motorcyclists, pedestrians.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,454 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt




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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,658 ✭✭✭storker


    As I said...

    "Management is still needed to provide direction and leadership and maintain an overview of what's being done. That doesn't require a physical presence , though (depending on the industry and type of work, of course), and the good managers know it."



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