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Why do Landlords feel entitled to rent increases?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    How about push out those living in council accommodation in Dublin City to make way for workers?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    But that's a lifestyle choice, you've a comfortable job, but the pay doesn't cover everything you want in life. I'm quiet socialist in my outlook towards how societies should be structured and believe social inequality is bad but you're not owed your ideal existence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,046 ✭✭✭OU812


    Listen… doesn’t matter how important your jobs may seem, if you dropped dead tomorrow, they’d start recruiting to replace you inside a week.

    Upskill and get a new job that pays more. The only thing important about work is how much mo et you can get out of it.


    I dislike my current role intensely, but it pays way above the national average & provides me with benefits I’d otherwise have to pay for myself and also affords me a lifestyle I’m very fond of. I’m still adding to my skill base for a move next year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Here is the only defense needed, landlords are private citizen and are under absolutely no obligation to provide discounted rent to prop up the lack of government housing supports. The world doesn't revolve around you where by your situation is the one that needs to be addressed.

    At one point I was on the dole and the rules at the time allowed you to work Saturday and Sunday without effect the dole and you could work also be on causal signers so if you worked a week day it was taken off the dole payments. I worked 2 jobs starting Friday morning at 9am and Finish 4 am Saturday with an hour break for the whole day which meant eating when I traveled. Then start at 9am Saturday and finish 4 am Sunday. Started Sunday at 14:00 till 4am Monday. I did that for a year so I could afford to go back to college

    It sounds like you should reduce your work hours to qualify for HAP to be better off. You have to work with the system. I actually reduced my hour this year because taxes meant it was worth less money to have a 4 day week, in your case you would have more money as you wouldn't have rent to pay.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭sk8board


    (full time LL)

    In 2012, the Government made a conscious policy decision to curb capital spending on houses and instead introduced HAP as a way to use the private investor/landlord market to provide social housing.

    the perception was that there was so much rental stock in the market at the time, which was true in fairness, with about 20-22k listings on daft (it’s 1,650 today).

    Property was at its cheapest at the time, and the government brought in a rule of a 7 year CGT exemption in ‘12-‘14, so the market suddenly became attractive to funds and landlords.

    however, at no point is it actually the job/requirement of a private landlords to provide public housing. Flooding the market with public tenants, while not restarting the capital spending on public housing, is what’s driving the rent increases by providing too much demand for such little supply.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭redarmyblues




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭sk8board




  • Registered Users Posts: 18,548 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    If your return falls below 5% ROI you have to consider exiting. Many leaving now are probably accidental LL. But you may have some investors who have only one or two properties getting fed up with the red tape especially those in there sixties or seventies. They ate going to take the money run

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,377 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    It was the prospect of my property being permanently designated as a rental (as per Sinn Fein) that pushed me into leaving the LL market.

    The house we just bought was a rental aswell so there are 2 more off the market now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,545 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    I'm expecting another thread round here soon, giving out about landlords and titled "Why to landlords feel entitled to sell up?"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭sk8board


    just 1,200 listings on daft this morning - I strongly suspect there’s a lot of places that are renting off-market with agents who have a list of pre approved tenants.

    I'm expecting another Daft price increase any day now - hard to make money with such low volume of both sales and rentals



  • Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭redarmyblues


    Looking at the recent ads on daft for rentals where I am, I notice that the vast majority were asking for rent in 50e increments , 1350 and 1400 etc. Now you would expect any asking price that has been put through the RPZ wringer to be priced in 1e increments 1353 and 1405 etc. in an rental economy where LLs are more or less obliged to maximise returns.

    Some LLs maybe ignoring RPZ rules but most are smart enough to know the RTB can and will come after them for this so it appears that in many or if not most cases LLs are not reletting after an existing tenancy ends.



  • Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭Saudades


    That sounds like a possible case of the landlord chancing their arm and rounding up to the next 50 increment - possibly under the assumption that the increase is too small for the RTB to bother chasing.

    Although of course it does all add up over the years. Any new tenant should certainly find out how much the previous rent was. Even a tenner a month adds up over time.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,377 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Is a tenant really going to argue with their landlord over 10euro a month given how hard it is to find a property?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,046 ✭✭✭OU812


    It’s very telling how a minority of tenants are very vocal about “greedy landlords” etc. if it bothered them that much, they should have bought their own property to live in.

    Many people in this country have been able to buy a home through sacrifice (not going out, no latest games console, old phone, not smoking etc) and did it themselves. No HAP, no RA, no handouts from the state or family.

    Just hard work. It’s totally doable, everyone today wants everything immediately and wants others to pay for it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭DubCount


    To be fair, there will always be a need for social housing as there will be some people who cant provide for themselves. Also to be fair, property prices (especially in our cities) are making affordability for hard working people (guards, nurses, teachers etc.) a real problem.

    That said, the current trend of populist politics and lazy journalism is blaming property problems on "greedy landlords" and "vulture funds" etc.. The real issue is we haven't been building enough residential property and are still not building enough. Any policy that doesnt create more supply (RPZs etc), only makes more problems.

    We cant have super premium building regulations and bureaucratic planning processes and at the same time expect lots of affordable accommodation to pop out of the ground. The best way to stop those greedy landlords expecting rent increases, is to have a large number of alternative properties for people to move to if they dont like the price.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭sk8board


    I recently had a place on HAP that I renewed the lease after 5 or 6 years - the rent calculator said €x,x43 and I submitted it as €x,x50 and it was approved no problem, probably because it’s miles below market rates still. I only rounded up as the odd numbers are more of a pain for annual tax returns.

    bear in mind the administration cost of ‘chasing people’ is akin to the cost to the Revenue of a personal tax audit

    in decades as a LL I’ve never been audited for my receipts once, nor ever heard of any other LL ever audited either. I’ve everything in order and legit, but I’m doing a bunch of rentals for many years now, so I half expected an audit by now - the bar must be set pretty high



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,379 ✭✭✭Tow


    We were audited once, young lad came went through the books in the dinning room. No problems at all.

    When is the money (including lost growth) Michael Noonan took in the Pension Levy going to be paid back?



  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭jo187


    So this is the classic attitude. What do say to people who have worked hard and saved and still can't get a house?

    Or low income workers who work every hour they can and still struggle?

    If you can't see the bigger issue of social inequality and failure of government to protect people it's more so about your mindset, then what's happening in reality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    I say “we had no help either when buying a house, we had to do it all ourselves, and didn’t expect anyone to help us”.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,046 ✭✭✭OU812


    What do I say?


    Do what countless others did before you and move to where you can afford a mortgage. You don’t have to live around the corner from your nanny.

    Low income workers need to get a better paid job. Educate yourself and improve your circumstances.

    It’s not the government’s responsibility to provide you with the lifestyle you want.

    They have failed in their building strategy, but they have also failed in policing the existing stock that’s there. A socially provided home should be subject to the needs of the tenant and should only be for a limited tenancy - no more “forever” homes. And as for the refusal of social housing? Screw that. Refuse once and you go back to the bottom of the list.



  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭jo187


    So you just ignore income levels have not increased and the cost of everything goes up? And you don't think two adults working should be able to afford a place to love?

    I'm guessing you haven't listened to the news of this generation still living at home struggling to get a deposit together? Or the rise of homelessness in this country? Nice rock your living under



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    There is no entitlement to be able to buy a place to love.

    I’m in my 50’s, I had to rent for a few years, bought what I could afford, where I could afford. That has not changed.

    The one thing that has changed is lending rules, with good reason.



  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭jo187


    I don't really know where your attitude coming from. "This generation buys coffee and wanna live in mansions" seems to be common among older generations.

    If you can't acknowledge thing might be different then when you were your younger it shows a lack of empathy and connection to reality.

    But hey your alright and that all that matters.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Lack of empathy, I have as much as the generation before me, had for me, which was very little.

    Connection to reality, I realise it is difficult to by a house, probably more difficult than when I bought my first apartment, quite a long way from where I worked and would have liked to live. I suppose I disconnect when I hear people saying they should be able to buy what they want, where they want.

    I’m alright because I took what I could get when I could get it, not what nor where I wanted. And finally in 2017 I got the house I wanted, where I wanted.

    Post edited by Dav010 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,046 ✭✭✭OU812


    Things weren’t different at all.

    I earned €21k a year when I bought my first house. That was €149k and was 35km away from where I wanted to live.

    stayed there for a couple of years before I spotted a place that needed extensive renovations almost wheee I wanted to be,

    Was just about able to afford it and spent two years doing it up room by room when I could afford to get it done.

    Didn’t qualify for assistance from anyone, so didn’t ask for it. Just did what we could afford.

    Expectations of a lifestyle way above your means without being able to back it up is inevitably going to lead to disappointment but expecting it to be provided by someone else is ridiculous



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,377 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    When I bought my first house it was for €190k in Co Offaly in 2005. There was absolutely nothing available in Dublin at this price at that point of time. The closest were parts of Finglas up at the 230-240K mark. Leixlip, Maynooth, Kilcock and other border towns were all well above €200k for anything.

    As of today there are 50+ properties available in the county of Dublin for <200k.

    I would class this as fairly affordable for anyone No? It would be about €800 a month of a mortgage which is far less than what you would expect to pay in rent.

    This generation are not worse off than the previous. They are just not willing to make the same sacrifices.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Also, going back a few years earlier than 2005, a lot more people had to emigrate to come back and buy, me included. We didn’t like it, but we weren’t expecting anyone to help us. Prior to Covid unemployment was 5%, now it is 6.9%, high employment, more people staying here and expecting to be able to buy where they want.



  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭jo187


    So do you not think couples moving back in with there parent's? A scarface? For everyone involved?

    Not sure if you bought the house by yourself? But thats very difficult for people now.

    Why do you think there is grants/assistant now? They won't be there if the odds are not stacked against average people.

    The rich get rich the poor get poorer. You mentioned emigration, if you cast you mind back to the last recession that's what happened and still goes on.

    I'm not sure what goes on when you get older but seems to be the common "in my day we walked to school, this generation doesn't want to work" blah blah bs.

    Noting I'm going to say will change your minds.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,377 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    It is certainly a sacrifice for their parents.

    I never mentioned emigration.

    Yes I bought the house myself. I worked night shifts and took every bit of overtime that was going. For this I got to live it shitsville Offaly for a number of years but it was mine and every penny I spent on it was for me and not lining a landlords pocket. Ot was a crap first rung on a housing ladder but better than renting imo.

    A couple would be in a much better position than I was.



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