Spider-Man: No Way Home spoilers from post 185

Need a Username · 21-12-2021 10:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358399#Comment_118358399

You have made yourself someone to not take seriously.

you can’t explain Happy still knowing May so you ignore it.

Need a Username · 21-12-2021 10:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358431#Comment_118358431

I’m aware of key events in the comics but haven’t read them in a long long time.

Yiu said exactly what I wanted to say about Goblin though - The Golden Miller is overestimating him.

Regardless of how popular he might be in comics and regardless of the impact he has had on Spiderman, the cinema audience don’t know him beyond his role in the first MaGuire movie and any excitement that movie goers had for his presence in this movie was no more or less than for the Alfred Molina, and the others because peoples like those movies.

The Golden Miller · 21-12-2021 10:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358431#Comment_118358431

Em, from the Amazing Spiderman series (Superior Spiderman/ new volume Amazing Spiderman etc.), that justify my opinion?

There's been many huge stories, crossovers, in the comics for many years. I'm talking about the fact severel can be related to one character, Osborn. Not every time, but a good percentage of times.

I'm a Daredevil fan too, for years. If you ever think Osborn took orders from the Kingpin, if not having an ulterior motive, to work under him, then you don't have a clue

Need a Username · 21-12-2021 10:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358453#Comment_118358453

Here we go with the Tin foil hats and the mythical Marvel fatigue.

I don’t think people know how to count money. I don’t know what cinema you were at for Black widow, Shang chi and Eternals but it wasn’t the same as the one I was at

what evidence have you that Goblin made interest soar and not Goblin, Ock, Lizard, etc

and he doesn’t kill May “from the off” - it is half way through the movie.

Foxtrol · 21-12-2021 10:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358068#Comment_118358068

I understand there are plenty of holes that can be poked in the final spell but it stands up relatively well me. Everything beforehand happened but it pulled all memory of Peter out of their minds so they each fill in their gaps. Our own brains constantly so a similar thing for bits we forget everyday - it is why witness statements can be so untrustworthy.

Based on Loki I don't think the curing is an issue - there are an infinite number of multiverses, the 'cured' villains just go back to a new divergent stream. The OT and AT are still as they were.

The Golden Miller · 21-12-2021 10:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358512#Comment_118358512

The Marvel fatigue point was made in passing. Look up numbers for the trailer, before and after the Goblin made an appearance. The dogs on the street could tell you the interest was average, went up a few levels once the Goblin showed up in the trailer

Start or half way, he kills a decisive character. Only the Green Goblin has enough weight as a character to do that consistently, the studios made a point of it, i.e this is the bad guy, number 1

pjohnson · 21-12-2021 10:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358504#Comment_118358504

Superior Spiderman was when Otto was in Parkers body as Spiderman. Norman did acts as an antagonist but it wasnt even against the actual Spiderman so chalking that up as regards his rivalry with Spiderman is odd.

If you are reading the most recent Amazing Spiderman your take on Kingpin is strange.

Foxtrol · 21-12-2021 10:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358563#Comment_118358563

The trailer that broke world record didn't even have Goblin in it, the hook was Doc Ock saying 'Hello Peter...' at the end.

People rolled their eyes at Osborn and Goblin being shoved into Amazing Spiderman series - it was one of the biggest downfalls trying to go to that well again. MCU have given Spiderman a new life by taking a different angle

The Golden Miller · 21-12-2021 10:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358615#Comment_118358615

I'd find it odd your chalking one modern storyline to, which is even arguable, to hold more weight than decades of destruction from one character, amusing.

Not one villain has caused Spiderman, or any hero, more trouble or heartache as the Green Goblin

Foxtrol · 21-12-2021 10:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358465#Comment_118358465

I think the Happy bit can be explained - he was introduced to Aunt May through Spider-man, she didn't know he was Spider-man when they first met. If you take out the Peter element he could still remember the Spider-man specific moments and he builds out an explanation around it. Is isn't far fetched based if you look at what humans do without magic involved.

FunLover18 · 21-12-2021 11:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358540#Comment_118358540

I think you're right, I'm probably either going to have to accept it find some head canon to explain it. Those kinds of things just annoy me personally though, it's why I don't love Endgame as much as most. The holes re the taking and replacing stones just stand out to me although Loki sort of solved that.

The Golden Miller · 21-12-2021 11:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358637#Comment_118358637

The trailer people went back to in huge numbers, to see hidden clues of the talked about Green Goblin appearance. That's where the repeat views came from.

The well you speak of that won't dry anytime soon. Green or Hobgoblins will be the order of the day going forward. The well is plenty deep I'd suspect

I disagree they gave him a new life, they set him up at the end, to take over from where the Tobey Maguire films may have started. Brand new day, brand new Goblin. But that's what the people want

The Golden Miller · 21-12-2021 11:06pm

I'll be honest, I'm baffled all this is a conversation. Thought it would be like trying to convince people Joker is a rival of Batman, which would be a draw

pjohnson · 21-12-2021 11:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358651#Comment_118358651

Again with ridiculous hyperbole.

The Golden Miller · 21-12-2021 11:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358731#Comment_118358731

Hyperbole? The Green Goblin has ever been the only one to hit Spiderman where it really hurt. Even in the new film, they made a point of it. The new MCU Spidey, Green Goblin did him too

Penn · 22-12-2021 12:13am

Green Goblin is generally accepted as being Spider-Man's arch-nemesis; his Joker, his Luthor, his Red Skull... etc. He is the primary enemy where the stories get the most personal, where he pushes Spider-Man to his absolute limits and is able to damage him beyond what most other enemies can do.

It's why he was villain they went for in the very first Spider-Man film.

Shred · 22-12-2021 8:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358242#Comment_118358242

That's exactly what I expected initially when Ned walked past Parker!

I enjoyed the movie, while I had been looking forward to seeing it, my expectations were raised somewhat following the Empire podcast going batshít about it on last week's podcast*; in fairness some of that was about the experience of seeing it, the audience I saw it with were fairly muted which does impact things. I see others on this thread talking about 'their' audience reaction to some of the key character reveals which made me wish I'd seen it with that type of audience tbh 😕

*

https://play.acast.com/s/theempirefilmpodcast/7342f0ff16560fa388e1aefa001f53c0

IRE60 · 23-12-2021 10:38pm

Yea - brought the 11yr boss, who loved it - the De La Soul 'Three is a Magic number' was clever in the credits (think a small group in the cinema actually knew the lyrics!) - poster above hit the nail on the head - Happy and Peter at the grave did/didn't make sense! Good film - few scenes dragged out - overall a decent watch

Liam O · 24-12-2021 9:55am

I would say there would have been interest in the Green Goblin appearing as that basically confirmed Tobey Maguire as appearing which was a far bigger purveyor of interest.

The Golden Miller · 24-12-2021 4:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118359033#Comment_118359033

Of course. When Marvel was going bankrupt, Spiderman carried the company on his back, Green Goblin being the arch nemises.

People are quick to forget with the MCU universe, Thanos and Loki etc were b villains in contrast.

Marvel even stated during the 90s they were going to stop using Venom, Green Goblin and Doc Ock, as they felt their long term popularity would suffer due to over exposure.

The Venom film showed people don't forget so quickly, and when the Green Goblin was announced for this film, interest went through the roof.

Most of Marvel's other characters are hugely popular, or become big, off the back off the MCU. They need it to live off.

Venom, Spiderman, Doc Ock, X-Men and Hulk transcend that, they are huge draws as stand alone characters. And the Green Goblin takes it to the next level.

This film centered around the Green Goblin, his return and immediate impact and hurt he caused to this versions Spiderman. It was also a gauge as to whether they would run with Ned becoming Hobgoblin in a new trilogy, this MCUs version of the Green Goblin/a Goblin.

He's Marvel's flagship villain, and as I said, were prepared to convulute things to bring him back into play. Break it down, that's the purpose this film served.

This film is doing numbers no other Spiderman film did, in covid times, due to Green Goblins return. That's the bottom line really.

People are quick to forget, until the Nolan trilogy and solo film, Green Goblin was a bigger household name than the Joker

The White Wolf · 24-12-2021 9:17pm

I can accept GG is Parker's Joker and is a pull for general audiences, but I have to baulk at the idea that GG was a bigger household name than Joker pre Nolan.

Putting the comics to one side, in live media alone Joker was a big part of pop culture with the 60s series and then the 89 film. The only other comic book villain, up until the boom that started with Raimi and Singer films, the general audience would have been familiar with to a major extent would have been Lex Luthor.

I love GG so I'm not disrespecting the character and would take an Osborn Disney Plus series all day long, but he just hasn't had the mainstream exposure Joker has had, even before Nolan.

Then again I could be wrong and a Joker type Green Groblin film could be an absolute smash. I'd happily see that happen.

Agent Coulson · 24-12-2021 9:18pm

It is expected to break the billion dollar box office mark tomorrow becoming the second fastest film to break the billion mark.

brianregan09 · 25-12-2021 12:58am

As a long term marvel fan since the late 80s/early 90s

Green Goblin is a big name undoubtedly but nowhere near Hulk , X-men, Fantastic Four not even in the same stratosphere

in the early 90's pre comic book movies outside of the early batman ones , the biggest names were X-Men Spiderman and Fantastic Four and Hulk and by proxy the biggest names from those properties (villain wise) was Magneto , Doctor Doom , Galactus and the Silver Surfer and Venom , Goblin was the next rung down , yes in the comics he was revered for killing Gwen Stacey but he didn't pass over into the main stream fully until the Raimi Movies

pjohnson · 25-12-2021 2:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371536#Comment_118371536

At last someone else talking sense!

Optimalprimerib · 25-12-2021 4:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118345126#Comment_118345126

But this was just a homage to the evil dead. It was not exactly original in itself.

The White Wolf · 25-12-2021 3:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371536#Comment_118371536

That is true admittedly, as a kid in the 90s all media seemed to be Marvel mostly bar Batman for DC. I knew who the X-Men, Spiderman, Doom, Captain America etc were before I came to know the rest of the DC catalogue.

flazio · 25-12-2021 3:58pm

Not a comic reader but certainly a Saturday morning cartoon watcher in the 90s so Spider-man, X-Men and Batman were my exposures to those characters, also a bit of the Bixby/Ferringo Hulk show.

Homelander · 26-12-2021 1:32pm

Not really sure why someone is putting so much energy into trying to convince everyone that Green Goblin is some sort of explosive household name in the comic-book adapation world when he absolutely is not.

Or that Green Goblin somehow was the driving force behind No Way Home being successful.

If anything the wider audience know him solely FROM the original Raimi film, but there are countless other heroes and villians that had, and have, far more household recognition even long before comic-book movies took hold.

No Way Home - I thought was pretty decent. It didn't wow me, though I thought the trio of Spider-men was pretty faultless. The script certainly could've been much better and as someone else alluded to above it was very formulaic and really lacking in creative panache.

Honestly, above all else, while Tom Holland is a good Peter Parker, this movie reminded me of just how great Raimi's first two movies are. Equally, while Andrew Garfield is perfectly fine, those two Amazing Spiderman movies are far less so.

Fred Astaire · 27-12-2021 9:24pm

This was a real mixed bag for me.

I was expecting Nostalgia Bait the movie and to a large extent it was. However some of that actually landed for me. Once Tobey and Andrew showed up I enjoyed most of what followed - even if the final battle was at times an indecipherable, CG mess. The scene where Andrew saved MJ was brilliant, one of the few scenes in the MCU where they allowed you to feel the emotion and not undercut it with some lame quip. He was honestly the best thing about this - the glimpses into a Spiderman destroyed from grief, the support from the others and the possibility of a happier future for him. I felt like it gave the character some closure at least.

But getting there was a whole other kettle of fish and there were so many plot holes/contrivances and moments where disbelief had to be completely suspended.

In the last movie Peter is directly responsible for giving Mysterio so much power which made his actions here all the more unbelievable/idiotic/annoying/stupid.

The spell and it's execution was so frustrating. How Strange doesn't explain the parameters of the spell, how Peter keeps interrupting him despite Strange saying not to - how the entire movie hinges on this utter stupidity really frustrated me. I think Dr Strange and Peter are stupid beyond their characters in this movie just to make the plot happen.

I cannot believe that Peter decides to let 5 supervillains/serial killers out of their cages in some random effort to 'save' them. Despite the warnings from Dr.Strange where he stresses how quickly they need to be sent back because they don't know anything about the multiverse and the danger they could be in. For Aunt May to be pushing Peter toward this effort to save them was really stupid to me too. So they bring 5 these supervillains to a huge apartment building - away from their cages towards the population. These supervillains they have known for minutes in some cases. They even leave one of them outside in a lorry when he could easily escape and go on a rampage while the others are upstairs. For them to do this just snapped my immersion in two then and there. This random villain rehabilitation programme with absolutely no failsafes if something went wrong which was incredibly fcuking likely. Honestly it had me feeling like Aunt May deserved to die and Peter deserved to lose her as a lesson for this absolutely ridiculous/dangerous thing they did.

I don't understand the place of Uncle Ben in this universe as Peter almost acted as if he didn't exist - when in Civil War he hinted at his death in his own power/responsibility speech to Tony. Honestly we have seen this power/responsibility thing play out in 3 movies now and him say it without saying it - and Peter acted like May had said the most profound thing ever when he has been saying it for ages himself.

The implications of the villains being saved and not dying in their own universes require an almost infinite number of alternate timelines. Goblin being saved alone would make Tobeys trilogy end with the first movie.

Overall I enjoyed most of what happened after Andrew and Tobey appeared but the terrible writing to get there really dragged this down for me.

orecir · 28-12-2021 8:15pm

7 out of 10 for me and no more or no less.

A decent nostalgia trip down memory lane.

Far from home the best of the trilogy.

Zero-Cool · 30-12-2021 8:55pm

Loved it, absolutely loved it! They should have made Toby number 1, Andrew 2 and Tom 3 (could have made reference to their ages but would have been a nice touch). The chemistry between the 3 was just class and the villains nailed it as well. I thought having GG as the big bad was a great touch purely for Willem's performance. So many great lines and scenes. "I'm something of a scientist myself" line had me "BAH!" out loud. I'm not one for reactions but the silence in the cinema other than me made me feel real old.

Yeah, lots questions and questionable actions but I haven't moved a Spidey film since Spiderman 2 in 2004.

Also, perfect ending for me. Before going to see it, i was hoping for a a clean slate with no MCU characters. Wow, can't get more clean slate than that! And that new suit *chefs kiss*. Now i really want to watch it again but also go back to the first 2 Toby films.....maaaaybe the amazing Spider-Man 1.

NIMAN · 31-12-2021 9:52am

Good film but what is Hollywoods obsession with long films?

Nearly every film I have watched of late could be made better with some decent editing.

JP Liz V1 · 31-12-2021 9:39pm

I missed Tony's banter and relationship with Peter, Doc Strange didn't cut it for me, loved the 3 Peters and more Happy was needed

I thought DS might change the pasts so for May, Ben and Gwen to live

gmisk · 31-12-2021 11:56pm

Saw it today and liked it, but to be entirely honest didn't love it, it dealt with a stuffed cast rather well. But the plot felt a bit basic and predictable. Basically it was no into the spiderverse. I do also agree with other posters it felt a tad long.

All three "Spidermen" were really good in it, I do think Garfield was a tad underserved with the material in his films. I didnt think Jon Favreau was great oddly and I liked him in any other MCU film he has popped up in, he looked a tad bored. I kind of was expecting some big revelatory cameo but no real shocks, daredevil was kind of flagged up.

Nice to see Dani Rojas pop up in the post credit scene!

OU812 · 01-01-2022 12:40am

Enjoyed it, but I think they should have brought back MJ (1) & Gwen in some way.

Also, anyone know if they did the spidermen pointing meme?

FunLover18 · 01-01-2022 1:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118398589#Comment_118398589

They didn't do the meme exactly but there was a moment when they were pointing at each other on the lab when Ned called Peter and they were asking which one he meant. I think there was a similar moment on the Statue of Liberty when they were discussing who was SM1 etc

Potential-Monke · 02-01-2022 8:43am

Been a few days since I've seen it, but I came out thinking that was just a couple of hours of pure fun and joy. The nostalgia, the meme, the interactions between the 3 in general being the stand out moments. Personally, I'm not a fan of the bad guy turning good, but I think they did it well in this. I can't remember it all, but I know repeat viewings will show more.

But it does reinforce my attempt to not watch/read anything to do with films I'm interested in. How mind blowing would it have been to get the Spidey reveals without basically everyone knowing it beforehand. I don't think there was a single (notable) character in it I wasn't previously aware of and I had limited my access to information greatly. Just a lot couldn't be avoided. Hate this modern trend of having to know everything before the film is out.

Oh, and thank to the trailers, I don't need to go see Uncharted. They showed the whole film, massive end battle scene and all. Just missing some story bits. Wasn't mad interested in it to begin with anyway. Thankfully, the after credit scene didn't appear to ruin too much.

astrofool · 02-01-2022 4:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118398737#Comment_118398737

Garfield's "Peter3!" bit was well done, pity he didn't get better material to work with (and be at least half a decade younger).

FunLover18 · 02-01-2022 5:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405970#Comment_118405970

I like Garfield more in this than I did in either of his solo films where I thought his Spider-Man/Parker was a bit of a dick tbh.

FortuneChip · 02-01-2022 5:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118398387#Comment_118398387

But Dani Rojas is meant to the Sandman, not Venom 😉

The White Wolf · 02-01-2022 5:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118406020#Comment_118406020

I thought Garfield and Stone were the highlight of two not greatly conceived films.

I'd still maintain that his final scene in TASM2 just encapsulates Spiderman perfectly. Just a shame he didn't have the creative behind him to bring it home.

FunLover18 · 02-01-2022 5:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118406091#Comment_118406091

There's no denying their chemistry was fantastic but the writing around them is awful at times. I've only seen ASM2 once and don't intend to revisit but I never found his Parker likeable.

steve_r · 02-01-2022 7:39pm

After watching Garfield in this I have been tempted to go back to his films - has anyone done it? The second in particular was an awful mess.

Havent watched either of them (or Spider-Man 3) since seeing them in the cinema

FunLover18 · 02-01-2022 8:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118406981#Comment_118406981

I watched ASM before No Way Home, couldn't bring myself to watch the sequel. I watched the first 2 Maguire films but I've been burned too many times by SM3, I've rewatched it twice on the past and each time I went in thinking "it can't be as bad as I remember".

Penn · 02-01-2022 8:42pm

Both of TASM films had good ideas that they just brought 2-3 steps too far.

Peter's father being involved in Oscorp's genetics and being killed for it? Also has secret underground lab in train station accessed by special coins, and is assassinated in private plane crash.

Max Dillon feels ignored and becomes jealous of the attention Spider-Man gets? Also carries around a birthday card for himself and talks to himself in the mirror.

Norman Osborn has genetic illness which could affect Harry? Instantly starts to affect Harry and has secret files that Harry finds by accident.

So many other things that were just needlessly taken too far.

Garfield and Stone were by far the highlights of both films, and I'm glad Garfield got a chance in this one to show how good he still can be in the role. His character was a bit of a prick at times in his films but I never thought he went too far with it, as he still had a lot of heart. Scenes like where he stops a kid from being bullied, fixes his science project and starts walking with him and asking him about it were great.

Zero-Cool · 02-01-2022 8:56pm

I always thought Andrew was a **** Peter and Spidey but no way home prices he's actually really good at both and actually shows up Tom's Peter/Spidey. Just goes to show the ASM films were just in bad hands and I love how Andrew for some badly needed redemption from this. Can't wait for this to come out on digital just to watch all the bits with Tobey and Andrew again. Saying that, I'm really excited for the next Tom films. Hopefully no more bumbling Sir to everyone.

johnny_ultimate · 02-01-2022 9:00pm

Amazing Spider-Man was such an insipid film I never even bothered with the second.

Spider-Man 3 is such a mess I don’t think I’d defend it. There’s just enough of the Raimi good stuff in there to wrap up some stuff, like the MJ and Peter relationship arc. I also enjoy the infamous goofy scenes, even if they don’t land as well as similar scenes did in the previous two films. But it’s clearly a mess of a film - even visually it’s morbidly fascinating to see how Hollywood went all-in on CG in the mid-00s and made the action and spectacle infinitely more weightless and unconvincing. There’s a world of difference between the small-scale action finales of Spider Man 1 + 2 and the CG excess of 3. And there’s simply too much going on, with the various subplots sucking up time from each other in quite a frustrating way.

FunLover18 · 02-01-2022 9:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118407340#Comment_118407340

I'd completely forgotten about his dad's secret layer, completely undermines the fact that Spider-Man is meant to be an ordinary kid and it could have happened to anyone.

Penn · 02-01-2022 9:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118407513#Comment_118407513

Yeah. In those films, it was Parker DNA that was spliced with the spiders, meaning it'd only work on someone with Parker DNA. That's why it ends up making Harry into the Green Goblin rather than healing him.

Like I said, they had some okay ideas, but took them all way too far.

The White Wolf · 02-01-2022 9:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118407513#Comment_118407513

Could of been much worse if you saw the deleted ending. :D

I watched both TASMs before NWH and I can't remember many dick moments from Garfield's Peter. His messing around of Gwen at the start of TASM2 is the worst I can recall. Letting that intern get shafted in TASM1 as well. Both are results of awful writing of Peter.

His portrayal of Spiderman on the other hand was consistently great. His empathy for Dillon and the kid at the end of TASM2 being the best examples.

They fucked up Peter in those films through no fault of Garfield.

Spider-Man: No Way Home *spoilers from post 185*

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Spider-Man: No Way Home spoilers from post 185