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The Expanse (Amazon) [** Spoilers **]

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,214 ✭✭✭Talisman




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Great opening episode, if a little tempered by that feeling the 6 episode total means it'll all be in a bit of a hurry.

    The angst over Alex's death also chaffed, only cos I know it wasn't from the books - or a creative decision by the TV producers either. The drama just didn't feel earned because we know it was enforced by the actor being gross.



  • Posts: 8,385 [Deleted User]


    I agree about the hurried nature but also considering (real life) sudden deaths, the drama doesn't need to feel earned. It should be jarring, illogical, and misplaced.


    Edit: But yeah, **** that guy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,296 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    What's this earned crap that's been popping up all the time recently. It's all over Discovery criticism too as if every death needs loads of big emotional foreshadowing.

    He died in a high G burn which does happen to people in the book it's part of the risk. Why give a sht about why it happened



  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭saneman


    Tbh I like how they've dealt with it, a member of the Roci family is dead and the resulting loss still effects the rest of the crew weeks/months later. The writers didn't push it under the carpet and move on into the new season like Alex never existed.

    I'm also glad Bull hasn't taken over the role of pilot (yet anyway), that would've felt unearned to me



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,296 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    It'll be Bobbi. It was practically hinted at in the last scenes of the episode



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    The manner they did it was Far from the worst, but I know it was only cos Cas Anvar was a effin' creep that Alex was bumped off in the first place. He's still alive and kicking in the books; though what was lucky was that of the Rocinante crew, Alex was the most disposable and least interesting. It just robbed the drama of a little authenticity, for me; that's all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,296 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Another excellent episode that had me gripped all the way through and felt like it was only 15 mins long especially compared to some other sci-fi shows right now that seem to just drag along for the hour



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭Doodah7


    Yes another great episode. Couldn't believe it was over, time just flew by watching it.

    Also another great webisode to go along with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,296 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I don't want to go too deep into the Disco bashing but have Expanse air within 24hrs of Discovery really drives home how average the latter is.

    With the Expanse I'm always shocked times up and the other I'm checking my phone half way through



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,214 ✭✭✭Talisman


    By ignoring the passage of time between events in the episodes the tension level has really been cranked up. Amos is a lot more focused on money matters than I remember from the books but apart from that I think they have done an incredible job with the tweaks to the story lines from the book.

    With only four epsodes remaining the tension levels will continue to get cranked up. It's going to be impressive to see the wrap up of the armed conflict and humanitarian crises in the remaining screen time. It'll probably mean that they resolve a separate plot line in each of the episodes and they are going to fly by.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Agreed on the above. With 6 episodes there's not an ounce of fat on the story. Not that the 10 we usually got were flabby but things are rocketing along; though sometimes the better episodes were the periods of calm before the shoe(s) dropped. Still, thank goodness if this is the last season they're going out strong. The Laconia stuff continues to intrigue where this might be going, given we know there's a bit of a hard ceiling here.

    Sidebar but anyone else notice how sickly and thin Steven Strait looked? Wondering are they just trying to make Holden appear tired and haggard and if Strait himself is ok.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭hold my beer


    I thought similar about Holden at the beginning of the last series. I haven't started watching the final series. Saving it for Christmas.



  • Posts: 8,385 [Deleted User]


    Can someone tell The Wheel of Time lads that this is how you adapt a book series to a show, when you have limited screen time!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,214 ✭✭✭Talisman


    The Expanse has a distinct advantage on that front because it was originally intended to be a Massively Multiplayer Online game but the creators couldn't find any backers for the project. They had mapped out multiple paths through the entire game before they ever decided to turn it into a series of books. Some of those alternative paths have been used in the tv series and because both versions come from the same source material it all holds together so well.

    In contrast Robert Jordan didn't have such fore thought, he lashed text into a word processor at a phenomenal rate and the publisher was happy to let him do his thing and the process spiraled out of control. The plan for six books ended up with fourteen. I think there's far too much material there for a tv series to do it justice. The series will be a re-imagined version of the source material for this reason.

    Apple's Foundation has a similar issue in trying to bring Asimov's books to the screen, the source material doesn't lend itself to being compelling tv and required rework.



  • Posts: 8,385 [Deleted User]


    You're right but even Foundation works better than WoT is. Yes book readers are also miffed at that but those books really are not great for a TV narrative yet the show still manages to adapt and still pay some homage, while working as a show and telling a story.


    WoT is all over the place with bad pacing, writing, directing, cinematography, and even wardrobe. They spend entire blocks of episodes on characters or stories which do not matter or could be handled in a few moments.

    Everything about Expanse is tight, serving the story, moving the plot along, and using the characters to do this (allowing character growth) with minimal exposition dumps.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I hadn't realised The Expanse universe was originally meant to be a MMO. Wow. There but for the grace of God n all that. By all accounts the two authors must ultimately be delighted the game project collapsed cos the books have proven a greater success than the video game would surely have been (for those not aware, the Massive Multiplayer Online market has a graveyard full of attempts to wedge into an overcrowded genre).

    Would explain why the universe has felt so much more cohesive than other mythologies and series, if it was all planned out prior to the pivot to books.

    I don't think the comparison tracks though. The Expanse doesn't really require that much world building when you think about it; or that many concepts or fictions. Humanity is in space, there are factions and exploited underclasses. Fight! It's otherwise extremely grounded and at a human level of experience. Wheel of Time is a bag of High Fantasy tropes, with all the ... and I don't use this word to insult ... waffle to get through before you even get to a plot. It's the curse of any world that's so distanced from our own; it's apples and oranges stuff versus The Expanse.



  • Posts: 8,385 [Deleted User]


    Get the exposition over and done with in the opening (ála Galadrial)

    Don't run down plot meaningless rabbit holes of one episode characters. Expanse did it with slingshotter into the gate but that was to, again, further the plot.

    The very first episode, on the Canterbury, had to introduce Roci crew, set the political scene, introduce stealth tech, define limits of tech (sci fi magic), introduce Miller and the Belters AND have an attack from a surprise force with our heroes running

    Light your sets accordingly, don't be shinging stage lights at full beam in a candlelit hallway. Expanse is fantastic as the claustrophobia by sheer use of lighting and sound.

    Get you wardrobe right. Expanse production crew have appropriate clothing which looks used.

    How long was Rand walking to Tar Valon and his coat/shirt was perfect. Is Morainne using energy to weave her clothes and those of companions clean every morning?

    Lord of the Rings shows that it's possible to get the fantasy plots in place early and grow them from there (even the Hobbit managed this, while building on that earlier groundwork)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    This show deserves an extra two seasons

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I have a feeling (maybe only founded by hope and nothing else) we'll get 3 "TV movies" covering the last books; the show has bounced around 3 major stations and can't see who else would take it for a series 7, 8 or 9. Some feature length stories though?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Have to agree with the other comments. The Expanse is a fantastic adaptation of the books. I'm finding the books heavy going they are so dense. Didn't realize it was material from a game, but I don't love the books as much as the TV show which is a first for me. But I have a new appreciation of the adaptation process.

    While I'm enjoying the WOT that's adaptation that has lots of problems. I don't think it's because the books are long. It's like someone used to making cheap TV shows has made it. But in reality it has a massive budget. But you can't see where they spent it. I'd be sending in the forensic accountants in.

    But there's already a thread on that, no need to go on about it here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Session 6 Expanse does feel a little frantic. But it kinda help build tension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭saneman


    It's true that the world of the Expanse was created (by Ty Franck) as a very early concept for an MMO but, when nothing came of that, it was his adaptation of that world into a homebrew RPG that got Daniel Abraham involved (as a player).

    Already a published author DA saw the potential for books and that's where the collaboration came about. I believe some of the main cast are based on player characters from those RPG sessions (to some degree at least).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,042 ✭✭✭youcancallmeal


    Steven Strait looks really unwell, like not acting unwell. Very apparent in episode 2. He's only 35 but looks closer to 50. Hope he's not got some real life health problems



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    He looks fine in real life. I thought the whole crew looked worn out and war weary, the thousand yard stare etc. I thought a few of the cast were the same. It's meant to a year of war.

    That was my take on it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,214 ✭✭✭Talisman


    This article claims that Amazon only signed the rights to produce three seasons of the show and under the terms of the agreement they can create a spin off show for later material. I have no idea of the veracity of the information but it would be great if there is an official announcement immediately after the season finishes.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭hold my beer


    I take this back. I want to binge it all right now. What day is it out? Just finished episode 2 and looks like that's all that's there



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭EoinMcLovin


    That link no longer exists so I guess that answers it's validity



  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭saneman


    Not seen it mentioned but if viewing on Prime there's bonus content available via the pause menu. They're vignettes with each focused on 1 or 2 of the main cast, so not cut content & doesn't affect the main story arc.

    I'm happy to have the additional content to watch anyway, so far they've released one with each ep, so 3 there as of now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,214 ✭✭✭Talisman


    I think its part of the fallout of his time on Eros when Holden took a lethal dose of radiation. It's a little detail that is forgotten by the audience but not the producers of the show.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,296 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Really tight focused episode this week. Love those battle scenes



  • Posts: 8,385 [Deleted User]


    I knew that they would have Laconian ships this season. There's no reason that they could not hand wave any delay away

    Book related speculation in spoiler tag

    It will be easy enough to have Inaros control the smaller ships and Laconia close their gate at the end of the season.

    Leaves room for them to come back with the capital ships later, if there is a TV movie or miniseries

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Another top notch episode; as others have said it's a testament to the strength of the story and its pacing that the time flies. And as always, my enjoyment is tinged with that knowledge we're now halfway through the season.

    Naw, I remember Eros and his dose of rads... I suppose it's just this and last season Holden has looked especially weak and terrible that I've wondered. They haven't even mentioned the medication he's on; must Google Steven Strait and see how he's looking into promotional stuff.

    True I guess they're splitting the difference and have enough time and resources to make a few new skiffs or frigates; and if

    They have started figuring out how the alien orbitals can be used to make materials, enough for said small ships. A capital ship project, with its antimatter gun would take decades more research.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,296 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Did Inaros ever get a Laconian ship in the books or is that a TV show thing ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,214 ✭✭✭Talisman


    In the book the Free Navy was composed of a fleet of MCRN vessels.

    Inaros had no idea of what lay beyond the Laconia gate. In the final chapters of the book his intention was to take control of the ring gates space and put the squeeze on the various systems including Laconia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,296 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985




  • Posts: 8,385 [Deleted User]


    These guys pack more into single episodes than other series do in entire seasons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,296 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I really wish they were 2 hours long they just fly by.

    I was a little disappointed with Duarte though and it's one of the very few casting that didn't fit my image of him. Great to see some quality Drummer time this week



  • Posts: 8,385 [Deleted User]


    I actually checked the run time, on this episode. It flew by but there was so much in it I couldn't fathom it being under an hour



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,214 ✭✭✭Talisman


    I've started reading the final novel and really hope that they make a spin off series to complete the story. Featuring the story of Cara and Xan on Laconia is like mini-episodes before each episode of the current series. I wasn't expecting to see Duarte feature and he appeared more Amos like than 'Duarte' for me.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    When Duarte appeared I remember thinking "he must be some kind of space janitor."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,296 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I would have much preferred if the Martian captain from last season was playing Duarte or just leave him out for now



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Another cracking episode. Four for four. The final episode is too close; talk about bittersweet. The merging of Michio from the books into Drummer's storyline has been a great move, really gave her more agency.

    Re. Duarte: while he didn't look how I imagined (in my head he would be played by Edward James Olmos, ala Adama from BSG), my main contention was him being far too young to be an admiral. Something achieved in the back half of a career, not the midpoint and not until you're 50+



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,214 ✭✭✭Talisman


    my main contention was him being far too young to be an admiral.

    Duarte's admiral title is self appointed, in the MCRN he had been an aide to an admiral. He took the title to maintain the chain of command that the Martians were already familiar with when establishing his empire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,296 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    He just didnt look like the type of guy who could convince so many MCRN to go rogue. When you see Crissy, Drummer and Marco you understand why people follow them but as someone here said this guy was like a "space janitor"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,553 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    I think the idea was that they were going rouge before him.

    The gates and the worlds behind them destroying the shared goal that mars had and the unity built trying to achieve it. He just shows up after things have already started to unravel for mars and gives them a new goal.



  • Posts: 8,385 [Deleted User]


    Ah here, we've had a tiny glimpse of him trying to talk to a child at a wake



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,214 ✭✭✭Talisman


    He didn't have to convince anyone to go rogue. The moment that it became known that the ring gate was a doorway to habitable worlds the dream of Mars died. Martians had made sacrifices for generations and were committed to doing so that at some point a future generation would have a habitable planet with a breathable atmosphere. The younger generations of Martians were happy to abandon the project and head for the ring - this was dealt with in Bobby's story with her nephew.

    What hasn't been dealt with in the series yet is that the MCR and UN are unaware of Duarte. He's not a charismatic individual but he is the grand master when it comes to strategy. Avasarala has always played the political game, in contrast Duarte is brutally efficient and goes for the jugular. Inaros has been a distraction that he created to facilitate the Laconia project, with the Sol system in chaos he has been free to establish his own empire.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm loving this but preparing myself to be disappointed with it ending. There will so much more to say. There's no way they can do it all in two more episodes.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    You mean from book 6? It's a while since I read it so I guess they're trimming elements? Presumably they'll keep the really important change that Inaros' war hastened though ...

    Book 6 spoiler, so obviously here be dragons:

    The Transport Union becoming the "country" of the Belters, Cara Drummer its first head.



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