Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2024/25

~Rebel~ · 03-01-2022 2:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118408909#Comment_118408909

I doubt too many would agree that - off the back of last season - anywhere was a higher priority than CB. And Gomez has barely kicked a ball because he clearly hasn’t recovered from last seasons injury yet. He looks an absolute shadow, along with picking up more little injuries.

so a CB was a 100% nailed on requirement, and that’s where the money went, and tbh the player it bought looks a terrific investment. (Incidentally who would’ve played CB today if Konate was never bought? I’d bloody fear for current form Gomez against Chelsea!!)

And then, with that CB money spent, and the contract extension costs, and all the stuff already said about our 8 midfielders and all the players we couldn’t shift (and the pandemic), the way things worked out makes sense. Of course we’d all love a 9th shiny young midfielder, and another forward while we’re at it, but the club does have to operate in the real world, with real, responsible decisions.

BorneTobyWilde · 03-01-2022 2:04am

VVD tries to be too clever minded at times, when he should just rely on his pure physical attributes. He was guarding the pass that could have came from Pulisic, while Pulisic just put it in the back of the net. Should have just gone to the man on the ball, that whole goal was a mess on our part, Konate was no where to be seen, either was Trent. Really poor all round, Trent commits too early to going forward, when we don't have clear control of the ball.

03-01-2022 2:05am

CB was the priority without a doubt.

As luck would have it Matip has been mostly injury free this season, and tbh he's been excellent as always.

.G. · 03-01-2022 2:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118408909#Comment_118408909

This sounds like revisionism at its best. We were fine to enter this season with the same CBs as last season that everyone castigated the club for entering the season with just because one has barely played beacuse two have stayed fit, also meaning the new one has time to be integrated into the team properly.

I didn't want Gini to go but I absolutely saw CB as the priority for any signings even if he did. 9 midfielders should be more than enough even with the injury prone status of some. Especially since Matip has shown this season that just because you've been injury prone previously doesn't guarantee you stay that way.

03-01-2022 2:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118408930#Comment_118408930

You say a “shiny young midfielder” like it’s a toy or a guilty pleasure. Gini was rarely if ever injured, almost always played well, rarely made mistakes, had a massive engine, and popped up with the odd important goal (or two) in the big games. Does that sound like any of our current 8 midfielders? Sorry I edited my earlier post to include a paragraph about Kessie before you quoted it.

03-01-2022 2:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118408960#Comment_118408960

It isn’t revisionism, I absolutely accept Konate was needed. In fact he is an example of what I think we needed in midfield as well, a young talented player to take over from Matip because he and Gomez were injury prone. But that same logic should have been applied to our midfield where the players are even more brittle. Having 3 CBs injured at the same time, particularly VVD was incredibly unlucky and unforeseeable. But having Keita/Ox/Thiago/Hendo/Fab injured and Milner showing his age was and is predictable. Hence why replacing our one reliable midfielder was important. That has been shown to be the case.

~Rebel~ · 03-01-2022 2:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118408971#Comment_118408971

I’ve said myself here I’d love us to sign Kessié. But I recognise that we can’t have everything we want, right when we want it. The resources, stunted as they are during Covid, dictate that.

i don’t think anyone would disagree that we need to have a better option available up front, and a better option available in midfield. But we have 6 bodies, and 6 wages up front already, and 8 bodies and 8 wages at CM already. As things stand, that - for all the reasons already detailed over previous posts - seems like it needs to be fixed before we can spend more in those 2 areas.

TitianGerm · 03-01-2022 2:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118408985#Comment_118408985

A young talented player for midfield?

What do you think Elliot was? If he was signed in the summer after the season he had at Blackburn then you'd have gotten your wish.

03-01-2022 2:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118408986#Comment_118408986

Rebel, signing one player cannot ever be construed as “everything we want”. Just as signing a CB last January would have been practical due to injuries, particularly as it would have meant Fabinho would have played in his right position, signing a midfielder would have been practical, not because of injuries that had happened, but the ones we all knew were going to happen. Again, Gini left and Elliot is on a low wage, so I’m not sure how an extra €100k a week is going to break Liverpool.

TitianGerm · 03-01-2022 2:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409009#Comment_118409009

We didn't lose a midfielder when we signed Thiago either so that's +£200k on the wages you're forgetting.

Thiago was Gini replacement but signed a year in advanced as far as I'm concerned.

03-01-2022 2:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409005#Comment_118409005

In addition to Elliot. And though he is excellent and has a great future, it would have been unfair on him to expect him to shoulder the responsibility of replacing Gini. You don’t see Pep playing Foden from the start of every game.

03-01-2022 2:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409011#Comment_118409011

BS. Thiago was not Gini’s replacement signed a year earlier. And if you haven’t noticed, Thiago though a super player, is another 30 yr old (31 in April, 6 months younger than Gini) with a dubious injury record. Get outta here with that.

TitianGerm · 03-01-2022 2:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409015#Comment_118409015

Pep rotates his players so I expect that's what Klopp wanted to do.

Match 1 - Hendo, Fab, Thiago

Match 2 - Hendo, Fab, Elliot

Match 3 - Hendo, Elliot, Thiago

Etc etc.

That's not even including Ox, Nabby, Millie or Jones.

If anything we needed an understudy for Fab and I'd imagine Bissouma was looked at but Liverpool got word of his offield indiscretions and pulled the plug.

03-01-2022 2:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409024#Comment_118409024

Sure we all know what he would like to have done, except 3 of those 4 players have poor injury records. I’m not counting Elliot for obvious reasons as that was a bad tackle and it’s fair to assume he would be available most of the time had it not been for that tackle.

Leaving out Elliot and substituting any other player, I wonder how many 3 match cycles Thiago, Hendo and Fab have been available for?

If you think they had the money to sign Bissouma, why do you think they didn’t have it to sign someone else when “they pulled the plug”?

.G. · 03-01-2022 2:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118408985#Comment_118408985

I'd be reasonably confident that myself and yourself want the same thing, as do Rebel and 6 and many others. But where we differ is some of us have the reality in focus, as sad as that reality may be to accept but it is that the club wasn't sitting on wads of cash it refused to spend last season, it spent what it could, partly is due to reduced income but also due to not being able to shift lads out it may have wanted to shift.

You've been asked numerous times how you want the club to finance the extra spending you want it to do and you haven't answered. We all want the same thing, we just have to realistic about it.

TitianGerm · 03-01-2022 2:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409033#Comment_118409033

We've 8 midfielders for 3 spots. Between them all in a normal season we would have had cover. COVID outbreaks have meant that we've lost some of that cover.

Why didn't we sign someone else? Well the club has previous for holding out for the right player, so maybe our number two pick wasn't available for some reason when they found out about Bissouma, or maybe the club realised that they couldn't sign another non UK player because they had no offers for other non UK players on the books already and that blocked the move?

03-01-2022 2:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409048#Comment_118409048

And I’ve answered numerous times, the club pays experts to identify and pay for players.

I’m sorry, I’m ranting, frustration with the match made worse by watching it with my son the Chelsea supporter and future son-in-law the MC supporter. Time for bed, tomorrow will be better.

~Rebel~ · 03-01-2022 2:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409055#Comment_118409055

Oof, rough conditions! Hang in there… golden sky, and all that!

dogbert27 · 03-01-2022 6:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409055#Comment_118409055

Seeing as he's still only a "future son-in-law" you still have time to make your child see sense.

Or make it a condition for the marriage that all grandchildren will support Liverpool 😊

retalivity · 03-01-2022 6:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118408985#Comment_118408985

So having 3 CB injured is "unlucky and unforseeable", but having 5 CMs injured is "predictable"?

Ok s

yourdeadwright · 03-01-2022 9:01am

Would i be right in saying Thiago has not been available for any of our big games this season , City, Chelsea x2, Spurs, United,

Such a waste of time

SlickRic · 03-01-2022 9:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118408624#Comment_118408624

We can beat both those teams.

People must not confuse City's league dominance with them being dominant over other elite teams.

yourdeadwright · 03-01-2022 10:09am

Get rod of Origi, Taki, Milner & one of Ox or Naby

Add a proper good 9, a young inside forwards, A young CM & a proven CM

paulie21 · 03-01-2022 10:49am

Leighton Clarksons loan been cut short. Hasn't been playing much for Blackburn lately

Girly Gal · 03-01-2022 11:16am

It was the beginning of last season we needed to sign a CB as everyone knew it was a risk, but, the club took that risk and it backfired spectacularly. They had to sign a CB last summer, no one is arguing with that, but, it was clear coming into the season midfield would be a problem area yes we have 8 players for 3 positions, but, if you look at the composition of those players there were question marks over fitness ( kieta, Thaigo), were they good enough (Ox, Jones) and age (Milner aging and Eliot young and inexperienced) also Henderson and Fabinho both tend to miss a lot of games. So it wasn't very clever not replacing the most consistent midfielder we had, it was always a stretch expecting Eliot to be Gini's direct replacement. Last season I don't think Fabinho, Henderson and Thaigo ( what most consider our best midfield) played in midfield together more that once or twice, so the warning signs were there.

In regards to spending money, we all know we can't compete with City, Chelsea and United, but, we are consistently being outspent by teams much lower in the table, over the last 5 seasons about 10 teams have a higher nett spent than us (they may have spent it poorly, but, the point is they have had the money to spend). Brighton for example have a higher nett spend than us over the last 5 years. So when you look at that it's reasonable to ask why we haven't been able to spend slightly more.

There are definitely players in the squad that need to be moved on, just to get them off the wage bill alone, Karius for example is still there even though everyone knows he won't play again, I'm sure some club would have taken him in a smaller European league if we agreed to pay a percentage of his salary. We could also have used the loan system to bring in players, other clubs do this, but, we're very reluctant to use it. I think the squad could have been strengthened without a huge financial outlay if the club was slightly more flexible in it's transfer approach.

Fitz* · 03-01-2022 11:59am

There was no talk of Gini when Liverpool were routinely handing out 4-0 or 5-0 wins a few weeks ago.

If anything, the opposite was being said as the Liverpool midfield was given more freedom to play.

The Liverpool midfield was largely working fine this season when it was Fabinho/Hendo/Thiago/Keita starting every game with Ox subbing in.

Take a few of them out at the same time, with some added COVID after affects and a bad run is bound to happen.

.G. · 03-01-2022 12:22pm

Is it even a bad run? Having gone two up we should have beat Chelsea. Having gone 2-1 up we should have beat spurs. Leicester was poor, absolutely, I still can't explain that one having had time off before it and all. We should have beat Brentford and Brighton earlier in the season too.

We dropped points in the other games not because we didn't sign anybody but because the players we have are failing to do what's required of them when ahead in games to see things out. And these players that played these games are more than capable of doing those things as they've proven in seasons gone by. There's work to do on the training field.

SlickRic · 03-01-2022 12:23pm

It's gas that some of us think we can compete with City in the league.

They've Pep, and the means to buy and replace whoever they want, whenever they want.

They also have the most expensive football structure in world football. They are not run like a normal business would be.

We had lightning in a bottle. Klopp at his best. VVD turning out as the best in the world. Fabinho, one of the best DMa in the world. Henderson in his prime. Salah, the best RW in the world. Mané almost as good. Bobby the perfect false 9. We didn't get many, if any, signings wrong. That is insane and unsustainably perfect when up against oligarchs and States who can pay for the best, and get who the manager wants, at a whim.

When you see the effect having the biggest budget has on every other major league, its absolutely miraculous that we've done what we've done. And just because our instinct as fans is to strike forcefully while the iron is hot, does not mean it makes sense. And that sense of wanting to do that is compounded by City and Chelsea, in Covid affected times, basically going on like business as usual. Our instinct is, why can't we do that?

I'm at peace with being massive underdogs against the wall of money run by Pep. We can only pick our spots and try to win as many trophies as possible in the meantime.

#lovethecups

Girly Gal · 03-01-2022 12:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409694#Comment_118409694

No one would complain if those midfielders could stay fit for most of our matches, but, everyone knows Kieta can't stay fit for any sustained period of time and Thaigo also misses a lot of matches, as already pointed out Henderson, Fabinho and Thaigo barely played together last season, it was always unlikely that all three would be available at same time for the majority of our matches, when you then have Kieta who is injured more than available as your next option, you know that Milner (aging) and Ox ( question mark as to whether he's good enough anymore) will need to be relied upon more than you'd like. That's before you factor in the likelihood of at least one midfielder getting a long term injury like Eliot. If both Kieta and Thaigo in particular could stay fit then no one would mention midfield, but, we all know they are likely to miss large chunks of the season, and before anyone says this is revisionisim, this was raised long before the season started.

For some reason some are hoping that players who have a poor injury history suddenly have injury free seasons, and are then surprised when these players are unavailable due to injury. Also the club have known they were going to lose 3 key players to Afcon and have made no effort to address this.

machiavellianme · 03-01-2022 12:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118408971#Comment_118408971

Ah jesus, let it go. Players move on. Gini was a poor man's Dirk Kuyt. Gave his all on the pitch, ran himself ragged and was generally available all the time. However, Gini played the ball backwards and sideways far too often, rarely made an incisive pass and for the guts of last season was needlessly giving it away. I probably complained more about him than Mané and Thiago combined. He wasn't this incredible specimen we cannot live without. His tackling was a bit above average and his speed was about average when he left. He served his purpose and moved on when the time was right.

Girly Gal · 03-01-2022 1:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409949#Comment_118409949

I think most would agree with you that Gini's time at the club was done, but, he wasn't adequately replaced. It was always stretching it to expect Eliot to be his direct replacement and the idea that Thaigo was his replacement brought in a season early doesn't really make sense, wasn't he really replacing Lallana.

~Rebel~ · 03-01-2022 1:32pm

For yesterday's game, poor as our midfield played, we did still have Henderson, Fabinho, Milner, Keita, Jones, and Ox all available... they just didn't play great, but there's obviously a lot of talent there, and all of them have already played well for us this season alone. We could do with a few upgrades, but clearly need to get rid of a few of them first, which looked impossible last summer.

Think we've only actually been caught short in midfield in 1 game this year, against Spurs when everyone was sick and Morton had to start.

03-01-2022 1:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409949#Comment_118409949

Replaced, not retained, there is a less than subtle difference.

Agent Coulson · 03-01-2022 1:36pm

It's easy to say we need to get rid of players, However no one came in for or even enquired about any of those players last summer because there is simply no real money in football outside the state owned clubs and debt ridden money of clubs prepared to put themselves in major debt to get to or stay in the premier league.

The club gave these players contracts on really good money why would and shoud they take less elsewhere.

As we have seen and will see more in the future players will run down their contracts and look for clubs then.

So yeah getting rid of players is an easy to say however not so easy to do.

Tusky · 03-01-2022 2:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410105#Comment_118410105

I don't think talent is the issue with our centre midfielders - it's reliability. They are constantly injured. Fabinho, who almost never has a bad game, was terrible against Chelsea. Possibly his worst in a red shirt. I lost count of the number of times Kante dribbled past him. He has just recovered from Covid, so he gets a pass. Henderson was invisible. We needed him to get on the ball and retain possession to take the sting out of the game, but he just couldn't do it. Milner ran and ran but he shouldn't really be starting these big games at his age. Thiago and Keita are always injured. Ox, although he has improved a little this season, has been way below the required level for a number of years. I think we need two new players in CM - ideally young with huge ceilings and excellent injury profiles. We also need a quality attacker to compete for a place with Mane - someone of Jota's quality.

~Rebel~ · 03-01-2022 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410224#Comment_118410224

My point is 6 of them were available... so while quite a few often have injury problems, that wasn't the issue in this game. We just played badly.

We're not light in the position, but we need to swap a few out, and swap new players in - but that involves having to be able to get rid of those outgoers. Hopefully that will be easier this summer than it was last summer.

Girly Gal · 03-01-2022 2:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410128#Comment_118410128

How do you actually know no one came in for these players, possibly did but, we didn't let them go as deal didn't suit. It's funny how on the one hand we can't get rid of players, yet some seem to consider these players as adequate for our squad ( a squad expecting to compete for league and CL) yet, no other club wants them, doesn't that in itself show some of our players aren't good enough.

There seems to be this need for some to show how well run the club is and tbf it is very well run, but there does seem to be some blind spots within the club policy. The squad for example is filled out with players that aren't really good enough and no other club seems to want, that's a massive problem for a club like ours who have to sell to buy. That's a clear indication that the squad has been poorly managed to allow a situation like this to develop. Covid is not the reason, but, is a convenient excuse to explain away any issue about the squad shortcomings.

We have an exceptional manager and an exceptional player in Salah who at the moment are covering up a lot of shortcomings in the squad. In a few short years both are likely to be gone and we'll revert back to a top 6 club whose ambition will be to make top 4.

atilladehun · 03-01-2022 2:34pm

I'd have more of an issue with the lack of signings if i thought Klopp was pushing for more but everything he has ever done and said points to the fact that he is part of those decisions and backs them.

Another manager would have said to Ox, Naby, Origi and maybe even Milner thanks very much but i need your wages and sell on fee for somebody else. You've been great but it's time for a change. Klopp doesn't do that, he stands by them when they're subs, not picked and during the off season. As a result they tell their agents they're happy and prospective buyers look elsewhere.

Klopp knows the consequences of his actions, he's very experienced but he chooses to behave the way he does. He doesn't have a problem with the owners, he has a problem with cities owners and Chelsea's owners.

It's not what i would have done, I'd have gotten someone on. That Spanish lad whose done nothing at Chelsea for example. And Werner actually. And we'd be crap. That's why I'm not Klopp.

yourdeadwright · 03-01-2022 2:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409949#Comment_118409949

His strength was his tactical awareness, positioning and legs,

Best recycler of a ball iv seen at the club in the last 30 years, Gini allowed thos behind hin amd in front to play better and with mlre freedom without setting the world on fore himself

Thaigo does a similar job in a different style but unfortunately can't stay fit

The problems not that Gini is gone its that he wasn't replaced

~Rebel~ · 03-01-2022 2:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410260#Comment_118410260

It moreso points towards a market that imploded. Since Covid no-one outside the oil clubs has money. Beyond them and Arsenal's splurge, spending was way down everywhere else. You look through the transfers across the whole league, and there was barely any midfielders bought for any sort of money at all... there was Soumare to Leicester, Willock making his loan move permanent... and that's about it. Teams held firm with what they had for the most part in those areas, with a few loan deals or cheap stopgaps going through as well.

Utopia Parkway · 03-01-2022 2:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409949#Comment_118409949

Gini wasn't the most progressive passer but what he did do was he hardly ever gave the ball away cheaply and was incredibly press resistant. He could receive the ball in traffic and you'd be very confident he wouldn't be dispossessed. I do think that is missing from our midfield this season. Yesterday, they were all giving the ball away for fun.

Girly Gal · 03-01-2022 2:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410367#Comment_118410367

But is that really good squad management, some of the players you mentioned are part of the problem with our squad, they didn't need to be replaced with expensive players like Werner and that Spaniard from Atletico, but, who knows, those 2 could well have flourished under Klopp and improved us.

martyos121 · 03-01-2022 2:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410419#Comment_118410419

Spot on. And you just can’t replace this without spending huge money:

~Rebel~ · 03-01-2022 3:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410501#Comment_118410501

Nat for midfield then? :p

https://i.imgur.com/VEdIUjF.gif

dogbert27 · 03-01-2022 3:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410501#Comment_118410501

Stick Nat in midfield! 😄

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-wK3DpUHxw

mormank · 03-01-2022 3:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118408715#Comment_118408715

You've touched on a little pet peev of mine here. This old adage that a team's luck evens itself out over the course of a season. It absolutely does not and if you knew anything about variance you would know that the odds of a teams luck evening itself out after just 38 games are phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal. Each team actually ends each season without their luck having evened itself out and for some reason the opposite is believed, ive never understood why.

03-01-2022 3:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410709#Comment_118410709

Is it possible you took what I posted a little to literally? I hadn’t thought it would be considered a statistical analysis.

Girly Gal · 03-01-2022 3:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410407#Comment_118410407

Our nett spend last summer was around 14 million, Norwich for example spent around 26 million, ( open to correction here) now you might say look where Norwich are, but, the point is they were able to out spend us, despite only being promoted, while we finished in CL places. This is a recurring theme over the last 2 seasons in particular. I don't think anyone expects us to spend a 100 million every window, but, we are actually spending less than most of the other clubs in the league, realistically you can't expect to stay at the top without investing at the right time. It may well be that we genuinely don't have any more money to spend, but, how are other clubs doing it. Spurs have just built a billion pound stadium, but, still outspent us. I don't care that we are doing better than Spurs despite spending less, that's more down to Spurs spending the money poorly and not getting Conte in as manager in the summer., the point is they had the money to invest. As I said earlier we have an exceptional manager and an exceptional player who between them are masking a lot of issues with our recent transfer policy which will become apparent when they leave. The transfer market is going to get more difficult, United are likely to be looking at the same type players as us as are Arsenal, both are willing to spend, then you have Newcastle you will be able to offer better wages to the diamond in the rough type player we normally sign.

Tusky · 03-01-2022 3:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410367#Comment_118410367

I'm sure public Klopp and private Klopp are very different. He will never say his players are not good enough publicly. But I would be amazed if he has not been pushing for transfers behind the scenes.

~Rebel~ · 03-01-2022 3:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410721#Comment_118410721

Think you’re forgetting wage spend in there.

the accounts all go into the public record… the club has turned a small profit in maybe 2 years over the past decade. And obviously the past 2 years will be back into losses. The club spends what it earns.

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