Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2024/25

BorneTobyWilde · 03-01-2022 3:45pm

Henderson and Milner and battlers , but when there is no battle to be won what are they? ''Without some war to fight the warrior may as well be dead.''

City beat them with Rodri, Lil Silva, and De Brunye in midfield, clever players who can retain the ball, and link the play with forwards.

We only had Kante and Kovacic to deal with, players great at breaking up play, I think you need to counter that with players who are ball retainers, cleverness, not warriors, who's job it is also to to break up the play, but there was nothing to break up, Chelsea would go wide, or directly to the two in the hole behind their front man.

__Fab__

Keita__Ox

was way to go, players who retain well, and carry the ball forward. There was no battle for Henderson or Milner to fight.

Girly Gal · 03-01-2022 3:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410733#Comment_118410733

Better squad management, would mean players who aren't good enough would not be over staying at the club freeing up some of that wage bill, other clubs have to pay players too, they don't play for nothing

BorneTobyWilde · 03-01-2022 4:00pm

Mane going for the spectacular when he was through was so silly, in games like this you need to be clinical, Rudiger had committed to sliding in, Mane could have pretended to shoot, carried it yards nearer the goal, and either finished it clinical, no fancy top corner, or just pass to Jota for a tap in.

Our front 3 are forever going for the spectacular. Salah can do it, but no need to try out do him, which Mane tries a lot.

BorneTobyWilde · 03-01-2022 4:06pm

https://richardajkeys.com/index.php/blog/310-var-is-a-mess-here-s-the-reason-and-the-cure

''Remember Jota at Spurs? ‘No pen’ said Paul Tierney. VAR covered up for him. We all know it was. Of course it was. At Goodison on Sunday Anthony Gordon stepped into a challenge and VAR decided it should be a pen. ‘Why?’ We asked the match day centre - reminding them of the Jota incident. ‘Ah’, they said. ‘Yes, we learned from that incident. That one probably should’ve been a pen’. Should’ve? Of course it’s should’ve by the way - have you apologised to Jurgen Klopp and Jota? Of course you haven’t - you simply hushed up an other error and moved on. Well I’m sorry guys, all this seasons ‘excuses’ will comeback to bite you.

One other thing - what on earth were the PGMOL doing when they scheduled Tierney to take charge of VAR for Chelsea v Liverpool. Liverpool fans rightly went mad - and before long they moved him! They gave him Leeds v Burnley - but wouldn’t tell anyone why. Don’t worry lads - I think we know why.''

BorneTobyWilde · 03-01-2022 4:13pm

Sadio Mane and Edouard Mendy.

Roy Keane will go nuts lolz

mormank · 03-01-2022 4:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410720#Comment_118410720

Absolutely possible. 100% possible yes. If anything im just changing the subject to that one paticular old saying and not commenting on anything you actually said.

BorneTobyWilde · 03-01-2022 4:17pm

Klopp's critical dressing-down in public of Paul Tierney was reason he was moved from Chelsea game. It's clear now to everyone there is a negative bias towards Liverpool, that the refs and VAR team are directing games as if it's a Hollywood Movie, and they're deciding the plot twist.

Ottoman_1000 · 03-01-2022 4:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410911#Comment_118410911

The only thing stopping Liverpool from doing anything this season is Liverpool....10 points already thorwn away from winning positions and 8 of those lost in the last 12 minutes of the game. You cannot win a title with those stats, just not possible!

theoneeyedman · 03-01-2022 4:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410941#Comment_118410941

This.

We died at the end of both halves yesterday, OK energy wise for 30 odd minutes and then got sloppy, game just petered out at the end. OK complaining about City and money and referees, but we've left points behind this season.

80 odd points just doesn't cut it nowadays.

SlickRic · 03-01-2022 5:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410941#Comment_118410941

You could before Pep's City.

Utd and Arsenal used to go on shít runs all the time and still be branded brilliant champions.

03-01-2022 5:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409145#Comment_118409145

I'm glad you asked.

Since the beginning of the 17/18 season, these are the games missed with the number of separate absences/injuries in brackets.

Midfield 5:

Keita 54 games (18).

Ox 74 games (7).

Hendo 43 games (15)

Thiago 68 games (18).

Fab 26 games (10).

CB3:

Matip 90 games (11)

Gomez 69 games (4)

VVD 55 (5, 2 due to illness)

I've got to say I'm kinda surprised anyone asked that question.

The obvious outliers in those 8 players are VVD and Gomez. Prior to their serious injuries last year, VVD had been injured twice since 2017 for a grand total of 10 missed matches including illness (7 matchesif you count only injuries), Gomez 3 times prior to his knee injury, one of those he missed 23 matches in 18/19 with an ankle injury. Ox has a low number of absences but unfortunately does not appear to be the same player post his knee injury.

So you can see a pattern of regular absences due to injury in those 5 midfielders, but far less in VVD and Gomez, Matip is made of glass but is doing pretty well this season. This is why the absence of both Gomez and VVD at the same time was both unlucky and unforeseeable, but given the regularity of injuries, the absence of the 5 midfielders is more predictable.

Incidently, while those 5 midfielders missed a combined 265 games, in the same period Gini has missed 11 games in four and a half seasons.

Ok s?

BillyHasMates · 03-01-2022 5:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410721#Comment_118410721

Completely agree. As a poster base we seem too focussed on blaming or pointing out external factors as an excuse for lack of decent squad turnover / investment or a frustrating run of results / performances. Reading this thread and the general thread you would swear we were the unluckiest club ever. Injuries, luck, referees, VAR, Covid, City's billions while there seems to be a general acceptance that we have no money and can't move on players not good enough. It is just more palatable to blame factors outside the clubs control I guess.

BorneTobyWilde · 03-01-2022 5:45pm

Spurs are 3/4 of a BILLION in debt though.

Liverpool have little debt, we could basically sell a player and be debt free.

BorneTobyWilde · 03-01-2022 5:47pm

Considering Liverpool is worth 2.5 billion, we could indeed take out huge debt, and invest 500m in the squad. I think if they did we'd be complaining that fsg are placing huge debt on the club.

BorneTobyWilde · 03-01-2022 6:00pm

Salah should tell Nassef Sawiris to sell Villa, and buy Liverpool

SlickRic · 03-01-2022 6:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411417#Comment_118411417

Most people should admit that they probably just want owners who, like City's, can throw money at everything.

To be fair, ultimately, it'll probably be the only way to compete.

Girly Gal · 03-01-2022 6:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411343#Comment_118411343

Isn't that more to do with building a billion pound stadium than buying players, yet , they still outspent us. No one is asking us to go into 500 million in debt, but, spending when it's needed, e.g. a CB in summer of 2020, should have been the priority and 2 midfielders in summer 2021. Thaigo and Konate were in my opinion signed in the wrong order, we should have bought a CB instead of Thaigo in summer 2020 and signed Thaigo in the summer just gone for free or if not available another midfielder. So did we really save any money on signing those two players when we did or would it have been better to sign Konate for more money in summer 2020 and Thiago for free last summer.

BillyHasMates · 03-01-2022 7:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411515#Comment_118411515

Not really. You have been banging this drum for some time now, that to compete with City you need to spend like them. It would help but it doesn't make it impossible. I think they will not be as dominant when Pep leaves, though their endless money will mean they will always be challenging year on year. What annoys me a little is that we have the ability to compete with them under the current management and foundation of good enough squad, yet have stood still in improving that squad and replacing players that have proved unreliable or just have not been playing well enough, and will likely fall down the pecking order when Klopp leaves and the team needs a major overhaul.

I doubt many true football fans want owners like City's and Newcastle's involved in the league or owning their club. I think if I was a City fan their successes would feel a little bit hollow.

SlickRic · 03-01-2022 7:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412000#Comment_118412000

Pep is the probably the best manager in the world and he has the most resources.

It's miraculous if anyone else wins it, if we're honest.

Of course it's not impossible to compete. But we have to get everything right. Bottomless wallets with the best manager don't.

We got every transfer right and barely got an injury of note. If that's your window for winning, then all I'm saying is we're unlikely to win a league again while Pep is there or the money dries up.

~Rebel~ · 03-01-2022 7:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410806#Comment_118410806

I mean, that’s grand to say, but we are where we are.

fyfe79 · 03-01-2022 7:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412046#Comment_118412046

Honestly I think Klopp is the best manager, but Pep (who's obviously top class himself) has far more resources. Give Klopp that City side and he'd have 5 PL's in a row and possibly 2 CL's.

BillyHasMates · 03-01-2022 7:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412046#Comment_118412046

We prob won't because we have dropped the ball. We have the manager and bones of a squad capable meaning we were the only club capable without spending a ton of money, just needing to spend some wisely. We have stopped doing that though. We made an absolute balls of the January transfer window last year when we were still in the title race. We have players in our squad, particularly in the forward positions who don't really play in the league, that should have been moved on and better alternatives found, esp with Afcon this year. We certainly could have done more without spending huge money.

Enzokk · 03-01-2022 7:59pm

It is ridiculous that we are talking about how our season is over and we are on 42 points after 20 matches. But this is where we are, where you need to be almost perfect to win the league and be lucky with injuries as well. Add in luck in the season in those matches against you rivals and it makes it galling. On FSG, have they been perfect? No, not even close. Have they broken a promise when they took over? No, so while we can have complaints that more could have been done, we are still lucky to be owned by responsible owners.

As for City, they will be in a position now to, much like Bayern, hire a good manager and their dominance will continue. UEFA has messed the bed when it comes to FFP and unless they introduce major reforms, unlikely, you will not see any hurdles on the dominance of City and PSG. The Premier League will not do anything either. They are just as useless, even more so, seeing the absolute state of VAR and how the interpretations change from weekend to weekend, depending on the noise. It is frustrating, but I don't see how it changes in the near term. We will just have to accept that a title once every 5 years may be the best we have unfortunately.

03-01-2022 8:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412210#Comment_118412210

With one in the last 30 and this team declining, as things stand one every 5 years is very optimistic. It is looking unlikely that Klopp will be there past 2024, if Liverpool want to try and change his mind, give him a team he will win with.

Girly Gal · 03-01-2022 8:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412095#Comment_118412095

We are, but, at least admit that mistakes were made and things could have been done better, instead of turning a blind eye to it. Up to the league win we were almost perfect both on and off the pitch, but, since the lockdown in particular, decision making could have been better to say the least, which would probably have left us in a better position than we are without spending much more than we did.

Enzokk · 03-01-2022 8:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412250#Comment_118412250

Its about what we have been doing the past 20 years. Once under Houllier, once under Rafa, once under Rodgers and then twice with Klopp. We are in a better position than we were for most of that time so I suspect we should challenge more. While you cannot make a 1:1 comparison with MLB, FSG has kept the Red Sox in a position to challenge most years so I suspect it will be the same. It will not be sustained like United under Ferguson or with City and Pep, but it will keep us interested in most seasons.

Could be worse though, we could be United or Everton.

03-01-2022 8:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412210#Comment_118412210

Most people aren't. The doom and gloomers are for sure. There's still lots of exciting football ahead and a chance of silverware.

Roll on the rest of the season.

03-01-2022 8:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412447#Comment_118412447

Actually the Red Sox have tended to follow good seasons with disasters, they do not build for sustained success.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-boom-or-bust-red-sox-are-at-it-again/amp/

Enzokk · 03-01-2022 8:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412483#Comment_118412483

Hence my statement that it is not a 1:1 comparison. No other team has had success over a long period like the Red Sox. You see teams win 3 in 5 years as they tie players to contracts, but the Red Sox won it with different teams.

BillyHasMates · 03-01-2022 9:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412210#Comment_118412210

Nobody talking about how the season is over. That's some stretch. The league appears very unlikely but we have 3 other trophies to play for.

03-01-2022 9:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412478#Comment_118412478

Been lots of exciting football and chances of silverware over the past 30 years, we win one league and you think going back to being exciting and the odd cup will do? Why strive for success when mediocrity will do.

.G. · 03-01-2022 9:34pm

This place is hilarious after any bad result. Worse than twitter.😂

03-01-2022 9:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412814#Comment_118412814

There is none so blind as those that will not see.

You think it’s one result? Was last night your first match this season? 😏

Girly Gal · 03-01-2022 9:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412771#Comment_118412771

Like it or not the cups are our best chance of silverware this season and we shouldn't turn our noses up at them like we have tended to do under Klopp. We should prioritise cup matches (league cup, FA cup & CL ) over league matches for remainder of season, we should still easily finish it the top 4. I'd rather finish 4th and win a cup this season than finish a distant second to City and no silverware. Even winning a league cup would feel good and be some reward, finishing second is of no real value and won't really be remembered especially if a distant second.

03-01-2022 9:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412865#Comment_118412865

I agree, but I don’t want to go back to being also rans in the league.

Girly Gal · 03-01-2022 9:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412881#Comment_118412881

I don't either, but, I fear we let our window of opportunity to win another league title pass us by, mainly through poor decision making after winning the league title, it's an uphill struggle now to get back to where we were.

Agent Coulson · 03-01-2022 10:08pm

I wouldn't mind seeing Matip play beside Fab in a double 6 and try it out in the league cup with a 4231.

----------------------Kelleher--------------------

---------------Gomez------Konate-----------------

Williams-----------------------------------Tsimikas

---------------Matip---------Fab---------------------

Jota----------------Bobby-----------------Minamino

---------------------Origi------------------------------

giveitholly · 03-01-2022 10:12pm

Won't Matip and Bobby still be out with covid?

yourdeadwright · 03-01-2022 10:22pm

Surely we go as full strength as possible away to Arsenal mayne let Gomez come in and play a second string at home to Rochdale along with lads back from Covid

Kelleher

Trent, Gomez, VVD, Robbo, FAB, Hendo Ox, Jones, Jota, Takk

Fitz* · 03-01-2022 10:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413055#Comment_118413055

Toby?

Girly Gal · 03-01-2022 10:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413147#Comment_118413147

Would go with Konate instead of Gomez, Minamino may not be fit, so might need to play one of the youngsters instead. Also it's Shrewsbury Town we're playing in the Cup

.G. · 03-01-2022 10:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412855#Comment_118412855

Thankfully enough I don't let the results of a sports team control my feelings these days. I very much used to in my youth. But I grew up.

I get very happy when they win, when they don't I can easily switch off the negativity. Best of both worlds really.

yourdeadwright · 03-01-2022 10:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413281#Comment_118413281

Konate deserves on form but Gomez needs games and i reckon he might play both leauge cup games, kind of like Origi and Taki if fit will start

I keep thinking Rochdale no idea why

03-01-2022 10:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413305#Comment_118413305

Some of us are more passionate I suppose. No shame in being a kid when watching your favourite team play, happy when they win, sad when they don’t. Part of being a fan, you care enough to be emotional. Why support a team if it doesn’t excite and frustrate?

Thing is .G., it’s ok to disagree.

03-01-2022 11:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412814#Comment_118412814

You couldn't make it up

Also, a draw away to Chelsea is a good result!

03-01-2022 11:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118413388#Comment_118413388

In a game you have a 2 nil lead, and need to win to stay in the title race?

Charlie19 · 03-01-2022 11:27pm

Yes beforehand a draw at Stamford bridge is totally acceptable but after going two up I can get why people are annoyed.

03-01-2022 11:43pm

We didn't deserve the win tbh. Draw was the correct result. If anything Chelsea were the best team

Agent Coulson · 03-01-2022 11:43pm

Just noticed there are 16.5k posts a bit strange not seeing a new thread every 10k.

~Rebel~ · 03-01-2022 11:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412354#Comment_118412354

Things can always be done better with the benefit of hindsight. Don't think I've ever claimed they're infallible, but their processes are solid and thoughtful enough that I'm not gonna complain too much about stuff after the fact when you can easily enough see how they arrived at their decision, even if things went awry after. One of the few exceptions was not bringing in a CB before last season, which I was as vocal as anyone about.

As for decision making since the lockdown, well, we're only privy to some of the information so it's hard to make that call. I don't think they've done much obviously wrong - that CB decision aside - given the initial financial uncertainty of when football would return, and then the actual financial losses from tv money and stadium money.

Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2024/25

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