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Coronavirus and the effect on Public transport

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 950 ✭✭✭Burt Renaults


    As long as they have their screen up, and assuming there's nobody else in the cab with them, why should they wear a mask? Like wearing a condom while masturbating. I only ever wear one (a mask, not a condom - I make sure to wear one of them at all times) while driving certain routes (i.e. routes where I've found compliance issues among passengers). I don't wear one to protect anyone because there's nobody to protect between me and that perspex screen.

    I think a lot of drivers are contracting it at home. It's a fairly solitary job for the most part.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,089 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Outside of a well ventilated cabin with a perspex screen, how does it stop you getting it through your eyes?

    And how can any mask make a difference in the cabin?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Stevek101


    Well not wearing any mask isn't going to help the driver regardless of the perspex. We are a bit behind the times here sticking with old advise screens, cloth masks etc. It'll be interesting to see what happens when the workers return wth cloth masks under the nose, windows closed with heating on full blast. Things were easier with delta.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    SI 244 of 2020

    5. (1) A person shall not, without reasonable excuse, travel by public transport vehicle within a relevant geographical location without wearing a face covering

    (2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply –

    (c) where there is a screen in a public transport vehicle which separates the driver of the vehicle from persons boarding or alighting from the vehicle, to a person driving the vehicle from behind that screen



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,008 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I agree that these are currently the rules, but I'd say those rules aren't following the the reality of how this virus transmits.

    There is a lot of "medical theatre" going on relating to Covid.

    Unless the cabin is hermetically sealed, a bit of perspex isn't going to do much to keep an airborne, highly infectious, virus out as we now know it to be.

    I'm not saying it should change, but I think it is only right for drivers to understand the risk. A PPF2 mask properly worn would greatly reduce your risk. Perhaps worth keeping in mind for drivers who might be at a higher risk.

    As an aside, I find PPF2 masks actually much easier and more comfortable to wear then silly cloth masks. Easier to breath through, better fitting and don't cause glasses to steam up.

    Post edited by bk on


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,302 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Luas struggling for staff today

    "Red Line passengers please be advised we are operating with a frequency of 20-25 minutes today.

    Greenline passengers please be advised we are operating with a frequency of 20-35 minutes at times across the afternoon."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,839 ✭✭✭thomasj


    Irish rail cancellations for the week

    https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/news/covid-19-update



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,759 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    What agreement is required to have drivers work on a standard working day after 10pm? I would be surprised if there is any legal or actual need (though always good to have all partiers happy).

    DB did reference Covid and Operational Issues in the press release.

    Its about time NTA stopped the early close, at a minimum core routes and the 24hr don't stop. No real issues with a major reduction even below Sat freq on NYE but the complete stop never made sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭Kyleboy


    9pm Xmas eve, 10pm new years eve. Its a written agreement going back 40 years between Dublin bus and staff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭Kyleboy


    Why do you think Dublin bus released the press release on new year's eve? Very convenient. Nta wanted full service. Night driver's were required to start duties at 00.01 hours they didn't operate between 10pm and 00.00, unless they agreed to do it for ot



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 950 ✭✭✭Burt Renaults


    Meanwhile, Go Ahead were presumably still running a normal service on New Year's Eve. This sort of legacy nonsense can't be doing Dublin Bus any favours in the long-term. There's no valid reason not to provide a bus service on New Year's Eve (and also a limited service on Christmas Day). The world has changed a lot over the last 40 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭Kyleboy


    I couldn't tell you what service go ahead have been running over Xmas, but they definitely seem to have released more "covid and operational issues" statements over the Xmas period. Strange!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 950 ✭✭✭Burt Renaults



    As in previous years, their New Year's Eve service has been putting DB to shame. I get that nobody wants to work NYE, but antisocial hours are part and parcel of the job.

    Covid-related absenteeism is likely to get a whole lot worse across all companies in the coming weeks, especially after the schools reopen. It'll always effect Go Ahead more, because they've a lot of low-to-medium frequency routes and a smaller pool of employees (not to mention a revolving door approach to staff retention). DB has been far better at masking the issue, but it's going to become increasingly difficult for everyone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭Kyleboy


    Have you compared the Xmas arrangements of all the transport operators in the Dublin area? You seem to think that go ahead are running a far superior service to Dublin bus over the festive period? I'm sure the nta have been monitoring the levels of service over the festive period and will reward each operator accordingly when the next batch of contracts come up for renewal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 950 ✭✭✭Burt Renaults


    They've ran a superior service on New Year's Eve four years in a row because they were contracted to do so. The other PSO operators should be contracted to do the same. Antiquated agreements should play no part in it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭Kyleboy


    You seem to have a big fascination with new years eve, what about Xmas eve?, what about Stephens day? What time did go ahead operate from on New Year's day?. I sure Dublin bus will negotiate with it's employees and come to a satisfactory agreement in the near future.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    I happen to think that the fact that Go-Ahead are actively tweeting out cancellations and disruption etc when they happen is a very good thing as it allows passengers to get a heads-up of the fact there are problems.

    That kind of transparency and customer information, that to be fair, Bus Eireann also release on their website, is something that all bus operators should be doing to allow their patrons to make an informed choice to use other mods, if possible.

    On the subject of New Years Eve, whilst I sympathise with the fact things may have been a certain way for decades, at the end of the day a publicly funded bus service needs to serve the public first and foremost. Stopping services for an hour or two and inconveniencing the public is not defensible and the practices need to change to provide the level of service the public needs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭Kyleboy


    Yes i agree with you Dublin bus should be operating a full service on New Year's Eve, i expect it will be something that will be included in ongoing negotiations between the company and union representatives. I also think it shouldn't be specific to Dublin bus and luas and Irish rail services should be operating more frequently over the Xmas period.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 950 ✭✭✭Burt Renaults


    No fascination - just an observation that there's no excuse for a public service company failing to provide a service to the public. Didn't all operators have normal Sunday services on the 26th and 1st (although I think Irish Rail still take the 26th off)? Although that's another thing that needs to change across the board - a Sunday service isn't much use to the increasing number of people who start work before 9am.

    The fact that they have to go through painstaking negotiations with employees to get them to work beyond 9pm on a day that isn't even a public-holiday is a huge disadvantage over private operators.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭Kyleboy


    Yes you are right Sunday service should start before 9am on Stephens day, maybe next year go ahead will operate their contracted services before 9.am to get the increasing amount of people to work? Maybe next year luas might operate after 8pm on Xmas eve and before 9.am on Stephens day to get the increasing number of people who work outside of those hour's to their workplaces ,it shouldn't be too much of a problem to them as they are a private operator and won't have to any painstaking talks with their employees to implement enhancements to their service.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 950 ✭✭✭Burt Renaults


    The thing about Go Ahead is that they (and any other private operator that enters the market) will invariably do whatever the NTA tells them to. It's a luxury that the CIE companies don't have.



  • Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭Kyleboy


    From my experience Dublin bus management seems to be implementing every thing the nta wants, unfortunately for them they actually have to talk to their employees before they implement the changes. I'm sure in the next couple of months the nta (Dublin bus) will have implemented every thing on their wishlist.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    Not strange at all. Smaller company, less drivers, less spare drivers, less flexibility to cover the shifts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭Kyleboy


    Yes it is strange, do you think Dublin bus has hundreds of driver's sitting around 24/7 just waiting for the call? I would hazard a guess that they both run very similar pro rata operational numbers. I am lead to believe that go ahead have a very serious issue with staff retention, maybe that has something to do with it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭drivingmissdaisy


    The hullabaloo from some posters about New Year’s Eve DB service leads me to believe that they may not even use DB and most definitely do not use it at night. Since the pubs and restaurants shut at 2000 the buses are running practically empty from 2100, and the few that are using the bus are literally people walking and the bus comes along so they decide to get it to go no more that a 5-10 minute walk distance. I have driven last departure 3 times since the 2000 pub/ restaurant closure on one of the busiest DB routes and was carrying 2, 5 and 3 passengers on this departure. All went 5-10 walking distance, all where late teens early 20’s, there is simply zero demand for a late bus service with the 2000 pub/ restaurant closing times. DB after 2100 would not make enough to cover the diesel never mind the wages.

    Even today seen in city centre 46a, 39,39a,37,145,155 the new C spine buses running a full service and where practically empty. Some actually where, while others had 2-5 onboard. There is no magic money tree, fares will need to rise again to pay for all this, the longer Covid goes on the bigger the rises will be. Makes zero sense to run a full service with passengers not using the service. But you enthusiasts know better and are looking for more buses to run, madness to say the least.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,839 ✭✭✭thomasj


    While you may have a point that it's not the busiest of days today , I wouldn't be using the city centre as a basis for presuming services will run light or empty. Not in the case of routes that serve busy shopping centres like the 39A.



  • Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭Kyleboy


    You are 100%right, but it gives certain posters an excuse to come on and bash the workshy Dublin bus staff over their amazing working conditions. God forbid what they will think when the next contracts get signed for 2024!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,759 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    I'm sure when the NTA ordered DB to run a service it was long before pubs closed early. I agree there is a good case for service reduction now however in more normal times there is no reason to finish at 22.00 on NYE.



  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭drivingmissdaisy


    Saturday service from 24 January.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 950 ✭✭✭Burt Renaults


    Unless we go back into lockdown, I don't see how that'll work. They should be reducing capacity on buses again, rather than cutting services.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,944 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer



    "Saturday Plus" service to correct you.

    Given the amount of drivers out with covid or being a close contact, and the resulting numbers of cancelled services, I don't see how they can maintain the full Monday-Friday service for much longer.

    Same impact across the water too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    Public transport is a social service. That's why it never is profitable in cities. Government pay subsidies to the operators to keep the service level. Irish government is actually subsidising it at a lower level then the other European countries.

    Pubs and restaurants are closed for late evening and night temporarily. So this demand drop is also temporary. Need to look and plan for the future, even though planning ahead isn't the strongest thing for Irish people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,441 ✭✭✭StreetLight


    Cramming more people onto less buses? Ummm...........



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,944 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Again, it is simply the case of that there’s not enough drivers to operate the weekday service due to Covid absence.

    All of the transport operators are having to cancel numerous services.

    Better to have a service that can be delivered than one that can’t.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,441 ✭✭✭StreetLight


    Quite understandable. I'm just not sure how it helps the health and safety aspect of trying to control a virus when the automated announcements on board are advising people to observe social distancing on a 100% capacity public vehicle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,944 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Well that is up to the government based on the advice from the public health officials, not the transport companies, and as of now they are not imposing any more restrictions on society.

    The Saturday schedule for many city bus routes has the same daytime frequency as Monday-Friday, it's just less frequent during the traditional morning and evening peaks. With vast numbers of office workers continuing to work from home, the numbers using the buses or trains at that time are far less than normal. I've been on buses on one of local routes that would traditionally be standing room only, and they've got maybe half a dozen people both downstairs and upstairs.

    Most buses aren't exactly packed right now. Some are, particularly around school times, but most are carrying large amounts of fresh air for most of the day. Many people can probably work around avoiding the school times, maybe travel a little earlier/later if needs be.

    Also, the Saturday schedule would have more appropriate running times for buses than Monday-Friday. Yesterday and the day before I was on a number of buses that had extended waits at bus stops along the route due to the running time being far too generous as a result of there being very little traffic.

    Post edited by LXFlyer on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,839 ✭✭✭thomasj


    Will this be the first time there's a Saturday timetable and kids are in school?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,544 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    You have to feel for the poor driver who was unfortunately caught up in this horrible situation. It's not a nice thing to hear it happened 5 days before Christmas Day.

    How often have these assaults occurred on bus drivers here during the pandemic? Is it a recurring trend that is taking place at the moment along with anti-social behaviour on IÉ staff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,944 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    It would be, but bear in mind that it would be a "Saturday plus" timetable which has additional morning and evening peak services over the Saturday schedule.



  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭drivingmissdaisy


    Despite the opinions of the experts who grace us here with their knowledge of all things DB related and how DB should be putting on extra services due to the increased demand in their imaginations, I’m hearing we will be going on a Saturday service for 6 weeks.

    March 6th back to normal “IF” things improve.

    Probably a lock down coming and after we can have a normal St Patrick’s day. The usual political lies.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't see a lockdown coming to be honest. All indications are that we will be peaking over the next 6-8 days after which cases will fall. As Omicron is putting strain on the health service, but not pointing towards a collapse, there is no driver for a lockdown.

    Sure we'll have a month or two more of short staff issues all through the economy due to isolation rules (also about to be eased) but its the status of the health service which will determine how good or bad things really are and right now its coping. Its under strain for sure, but coping, so no, there is unlikely to be any need for a lockdown



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,008 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Well the government have just announced changes to isolation rules, I wonder will this positively impact staffing numbers and the need to move to a Saturday+ schedule.

    Covid positive people now need to isolate for only 7 days rather then 10 days.

    Close contacts who are fully vaccinated + booster + no symptoms don't need to isolate any more (but most wear medical mask or high quality filter mask).

    To be honest moving to Saturday+ schedule on January 24 seems strange to me. By then we should be past the peak of the current surge. Most people were likely exposed over Christmas/New Years, so I'd imagine most staff would be back by the 24th anyway. And now with the new rules, it looks even more unnecessary.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,530 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Sadly it's background music at this stage. Nothing happens unless they go beating up high court judges.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 344 ✭✭TranslatorPS


    Reportedly Dublin Bus are NOT going ahead with the Saturday service starting next week. Go-Ahead must be as they published their Saturday-based timetables already (they're kind of Saturday departures with Mon-Fri running times tbh).



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,008 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Makes sense givien that we seem to have past the peak of this wave, close contact procedures, etc. have been eased and the government is even talking about lifting restrictions.

    I'm sure staff numbers are still constrained and there will probably be cancellations, etc. But I wouldn't see the need to move to Saturday schedule.

    Obviously GAI have less wiggle room with less staff, but hopefully they can return to normal as soon as possible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭drivingmissdaisy


    Saturday service for next week officially canceled, will be a normal service.

    Would appear the hypochondriacs have been told to stay home if they want to and the rest of the country is getting back to normal



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,302 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    So with it looking like there'll be a full reopening coming from tomorrow that got me thinking, how long would DB require to get the nitelink service back up and running ? I'm assuming it would be next weekend at the earliest, rosters etc?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 344 ✭✭TranslatorPS


    DB cancelled, GAI looks to be still going ahead with the changes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,949 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    So I can sit in a pub for 12 consecutive hours without a mask on, sink a load of pints and fall about the place, but I need to have a mask on while on public transport.

    🤔



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,839 ✭✭✭thomasj


    I'd say there's a big difference. The pub is personal responsibility, you don't have to go if you do it's your decision and bar the pub or someone else doing something bad you'd be solely responsible for your actions. Bus however is an essential service and there would be a lot of old and vulnerable people and healthcare staff that need public transport that would be hessitant on getting on buses where people are not wearing masks.



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