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To the people who say the troubles was not a war

123457

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,409 ✭✭✭corner of hells




    Changes under the Education (Admission to Schools) Act 2018

    The Education (Admission to Schools) Act 2018 aims to make the rules around admissions to schools more structured, fair and transparent. Some of the provisions of the Act have been commenced and are in operation and others are expected to come into operation from 2021.

    Schools cannot charge fees or ask for contributions as a condition for admission or continued admission , with the exception of fee-charging secondary schools, boarding schools and admission to post leaving certificate or further education courses run by post-primary schools.

    Since 2018, primary schools are not allowed to use religion as a basis for admission and are not allowed to prioritise students based on their religious beliefs. However, there are some exceptions to this:

    A school that provides religious instruction or education in a minority religion can prioritise a student of that religion who is looking for admission to a school that provides religious instruction or education consistent with, or similar to, their religious beliefs

    A school that aims to promote promote certain religious values can refuse to admit a student who is not of that religious denomination – provided it can prove that the refusal is essential to maintain the ethos of the school

    .

    How schools select and prioritise students who apply

    In general, schools must accept all students who apply to them unless they receive more applications than there are places (that is, if the school is over-subscribed).

    All schools must have an admissions policy. This outlines the criteria that will be applied if the school is over-subscribed. These selection criteria will help the school to decide which students to accept and the order for placing the remaining students on the waiting list.

    In their selection criteria, schools must not prioritise one student over another on any of the following grounds:

    • Gender
    • Civil status
    • Family status
    • Sexual orientation
    • Religion
    • Disability
    • Race
    • Membership of the Traveller community
    • Special educational needs

    There are some exceptions to these rules:


    Religious ethos

    Many schools in Ireland promote certain religious values. These schools are not allowed to discriminate by admitting students of a particular religion in preference to others, except in the following circumstances:

    A school that aims to promote certain religious values can refuse to admit a student who is not of that religious denomination – provided it can prove that the refusal is essential to maintain the ethos of the school.

    A school that provides religious instruction or education in a minority religion can prioritise a student of that religion who is looking for admission to a school that provides religious instruction or education consistent with, or similar to, their religious beliefs

    Students have the right to attend a religious school without getting any religious instruction.

    .

    What happens if my child doesn’t get accepted into a school?

    If your child does not get accepted to a school you have applied to, the school should write to you and give you the reasons for the refusal. It should also give you information about your child’s place on the waiting list and explain your child’s ranking against their selection criteria.

    The school may recommend another suitable school for you to apply to if they cannot accept your child.

    If you have difficulty finding a place for your child in a local school, the Educational Welfare Service of Tusla – the Child and Family Agency is the statutory agency that can help you. You can contact it on 01-7718500.

    How do I appeal the decision of a school not to accept my child?

    You can appeal a school’s decision not to enrol your child.

    If a school refuses to enrol your child because it is oversubscribed, you must first request the school’s board of management to review this decision. You must make your request for a review using the Board of Management Request Form (BOMR1). The board of management must notify you of the outcome of your request for a review within 42 days from the date of the decision to refuse admission to the school.

    You can make a Section 29 appeal to the Department of Education, once you have received the outcome of the review by the board or 42 days after the decision to refuse admission was made - whichever of these is earliest. However, your Section 29 appeal to the Department of Education must be made no later than 63 days following the original decision by the school to refuse admission. You make your appeal using a Section 29 appeal application form. The Department has Frequently Asked Questions about Section 29 appeals when a school is oversubscribed.

    If a school refuses to admit your child for a reason other than the school being oversubscribed, you can make your appeal to the Department of Education using a Section 29 appeal application form.

    Before making a Section 29 appeal, you may, but are not required to, request a review of the decision not to admit your child by the board of management using the Review by the Board of Management Request Form (BOMR1). Alternatively, you can proceed directly to an independent Section 29 appeal without requesting a review by the board of management. If you request a review, the board of management must notify you of the outcome within 42 days from the date of the decision to refuse admission to the school.

    Your Section 29 appeal must be made no later than 63 days following the original decision by the school to refuse admission.



     

     

     There's quite a bit more reading according to that Act and it's updates .In regards to the religious ethos being maintained , at a guess , I'd imagine if you want your child to be educated in Judadism , it's unlikely Clonskeagh would be able to accommodate you.

     



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Gerry T


    I suppose the point being, according to that link, schools can still discriminate against applicants based on religion. Especially if the school was a minority religion, such as protestant schools. Seems crazy to me that a 2018 act would continue to promote such discrimination. Why does the state continue to fund these schools, people don't have a choice, there isn't enough secular schools to meet demand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭BurgerFace


    The excuse that the Japanese were never going to surrender is a farcical myth to hoodwink gullible fools. Perhaps you buy into it because you can't stomach the very uncomfortable truth. The Japanese had been trying to surrender for months to anyone who would listen on the Allied side. The Americans used nuclear bombs on civilians to send a message to the world. That message was "we are in charge of the post-War world, we have these weapons and we will use them on anyone who tries to get in our way. Are you listening Russia?" They peddled the excuse that using weapons of mass destruction was unavoidable in order to placate the public. Governments around the world in particular in Moscow knew it was bullsh!t and that the US were in effect saying "we have no qualms about incinerating countless innocent lives to maintain our control over the world".

    Yes the Japanese slaughtered millions. That's not in dispute. But the idea that dropping nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was to bring the war to a speedy end and spare countless American live is truly laughable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,409 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    I don't think it's promoting discrimination, I think what it's saying is " Our school provides religious instruction ,seeks to maintain that ethos and can prove so ,is allowed to refuse a place for a child of another denomination "

    Again it's open to interpretation but I'd imagine it boils down to minority religions not so much the Catholic/Protestant beliefs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,409 ✭✭✭corner of hells




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Gerry T


    You could see it that way, but the provision can be used by catholic schools, the're not excluded. The situation is we have predominantly catholic schools, I accept these were provided by the church originally, but it would be also fair to say it was the people in each parish that funded the church who funded those schools. A percentage of those peoples children's children are looking for secular education, it's right that the church stops its control of those schools. Also the state has been funding building repair and teachers salaries for decades.

    The alternative would be to have the state pull funding of buildings/salaries of schools that promote one religious belief over another and that money should be used to fund non denominational schools only.

    It's off topic so I'll stop posting on religion & schools. Suffice to say religion has played a massive role in the politics and the war in the north, in a devisive way. Hopefully successive generations can set that aside and bring unity to the north and that Brexit doesn't see a return of that war.



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭BurgerFace




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,409 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    At least add a bit more detail.

    Was it a truce/armistice, an unconditional surrender, did the emperor have to abdicate , who were the brokers.

    I knew the Russians signed a non aggression pact in May/June with Japan but then voided it by declaring war attacking Japanese forces in China.

    Towards the middle and end of July allied powers asked Japan to surrender unconditionally.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Well seeing as though the subject has changed the last couple of pages and most people have agreed that the IRA campaign was justified I think this thread has marked it's completion.

    The IRA is now the most popular political party in Ireland both North and South, a United Ireland is closer than ever and now once Sinn Féin get into government after the next election in the Republic they will then begin to put the final part of the provo master plan into action and unite Ireland once and for all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,409 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Your drunk Harry .

    "The IRA is now the most popular political party ?"

    And " the provo master plan ".

    Harry you need to read what you write ,before posting it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Sinn Féin was the IRA's political Wing during the troubles, When the IRA disbanded it pledged to dedicate their goals to solely peaceful and democtatic means, that means is through Sinn Féin, many of the highest ranking IRA members were at the top of Sinn Féin at the time and some still are.

    The armed Wing of the IRA stood down the political Wing didn't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Gerry T


    The worrying thing is SF have a lot of support in IRL. Their a populist party, touting houses for everyone, cut in taxes for the working class and screwing the wealthy, pay rises for all of those as well. It can't be done, their fiscal strategy just doesn't add up. Not that their as bad as the tory nutters but they would do some damage in my opinion if they got in.

    I was talking to a friend, he has 3 kids in their mid 20's and they all favour SF, from their perspective a party saying they will get a house is the party for them. God help us.

    I'm just glad the war is over 🙂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,612 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    I think the sticking point was the role of the Emperor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,521 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    most people have agreed that the IRA campaign was justified

    Must have missed that memo as well...

    What's the weather like in Boston anyway?

    Not your ornery onager



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Did Gerry Adams not stand up in court and give evidence against his brother? Pretty sure he did.

    Most if not all British soldiers who served during the early 70s would tell you it was a war, here's a quiet day in Belfast 1972, this is one of the few days nó one died.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DkK3Ff4ivkJA&ved=2ahUKEwi__IfhvYD1AhV4Q0EAHaS7C4IQwqsBegQIBRAE&usg=AOvVaw0OOWHoQ0IonXdQeehON_d3



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    What kind of ridiculous comparison is that? Obviously that wasn't a war it was one single incident commited by 6 people, all but one of which were dead by the end of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,715 ✭✭✭corks finest


    Collins was a terrorist?

    de Valera?

    isnt it great that we gained partial freedom by “ terrorists” like McSwiney

    michael Collins “ the object of terrorism is to terrorise “

    we’d still be under John Bulls tyranny if brave men n women didn’t sacrifice their lives/ freedom

    I see no difference between Collins/McSwiney and Bobby Sands

    then again I lived up north for a large part of the war whilst you obviously didn’t

    great to throw stones but mind tbe window you’re squinting out of



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,715 ✭✭✭corks finest


    You’re being paranoid and extremely prejudiced

    IRA gone- much like FF/ FG predecessors did , or maybe you conveniently forgot or just don’t know your history?

    btw ever visited/ lived in tbe 6 counties during the war of occupation?





  • if they set of car bombs and the likes, then yes they were.

    I don’t care where you used to live you don’t get to redefine terrorism to suit yourself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    What about shooting pregnant women, children and killing dozens of teenage boys and burying them in unmarked graves?

    All the stuff Collins and his terror gang were up to back in the day.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,715 ✭✭✭corks finest


    Only those who personally witnessed what went on can truly appreciate the what went on

    i lived in the Creggan estate - google it

    personally witnessed and was at the receiving end of John butchers vile behaviour in my own house replicated throughout the 6 counties during the war

    irrespective of one’s allegiances it’s categorically wrong for soldiers and RUC thugs to terrorise children as my own were during countless raids

    when kids see their daddy getting beaten / humiliated in their own home and on the streets etc they are traumatised

    going through and making vile comments while going through my girls underwear was disgusting and taking nappies off babies whilst visiting long kesh/ H blocks was another favourite of the Brit war machine

    my personal experiences after 20 years as a Corkman living in occupied 6 counties was what happened to thousands of others day and daily so it’s vv easy to be smug and comment on something you personally know **** all about/ jog on



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    Terrorism being the use of violence for political aims....where do fg and the heavy gang of the 70s/80s.fall in your definition of terorism?



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Do you really not know,what went on?



    That would be fairly mild to some of what i known went on



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,715 ✭✭✭corks finest


    well you’re a fool then , want to pm me and I’ll ring you or contact via what’s app - then u can did around, I’ve no reason to lie

    ive 12 grandchildren at present still living in the Creggan

    my unique Cork surname is b easily looked up on Twitter or google

    went up originally as part of the Terence McSuibhne SF cumainn cork city

    ( Bloody Sunday commemoration match in 78/79 until I moved permanently there)

    balls in your court ol stock



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,715 ✭✭✭corks finest


    This guys living in a different reality or is just looking for a reaction



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,715 ✭✭✭corks finest


    Give the world one reason why the hell anyone would lie about their origins?

    I won’t , and fyi was arrested in Dundalk on suspicion of being a member of a subscribed organisation- other Cork guy with me went onto serve 5 in Portlaoise

    john Murphy ( aka Tiny) was spokesperson for 32 county sovereignty

    still involved afaik ( political side) google him foola and come back to me



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,715 ✭✭✭corks finest


    Not meant to impress anyone just put a bit of reality to a shite time that some don’t believe actually went on



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,715 ✭✭✭corks finest


    For Gods sake I don’t support anyone but my family- past is past , long time ago

    I’m in my 60s not prone to lying or exaggerating, if you don’t believe me that’s entirely up to you, I’m not unique in anyway what I stated is an honest account that happened to hundreds of other families ( both republican and loyalist and others with nothing whatsoever to do with anyone)

    in the 6 counties during the war, ppl in the free state didn’t in the main care what went on “up there”

    so I guess nothing changes-

    PS do a bit of research before judging- I’m out of here,

    goid luck.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Come on cut the crap, I've even seen by previous posts of yours that you've never lived in Derry so I don't know who you think you're trying to fool.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,710 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Heads up, all. We’re heading into 2022, not 1972…



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    Be careful, you might make yourself a legitimate target for assasination for wearing Marks & Sparks socks or something.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    the free state still exists, it is the term for the 26 counties.

    once ireland is reunified which it will be, then the free state will sease to exist.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    it is, however the fight for irish freedom, which still hasn't been fully achieved, will always be relevant regardless of year.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,710 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Truth be known, vast majority people culdn't give a fiddlers. The world has change so much....patriotism and all that has not near the effect that it once had.....all juts part of the world now

    I couldn't care less......and I used to care.......



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So you support the dissident republicans then?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    i have kept up, hence my post.

    the free state only seases to exist upon reunification.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    ''democracy it's fantastic''

    You seem to be forgetting the only reason we went along with Northern Ireland was because the British threatened ''immediate and terrible war'' and partitioned Ireland against the will of the vast majority of people in Ireland.

    How can you then go praising democracy about something that happened 70 years later because our backs were against the wall and we had no other options.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    northern ireland is still under british rule because of a treaty signed under duress via the threat of violence upon the irish people.

    therefore until northern ireland is back with it's legitimate country and the sectarian abomination of partition is removed, then irish freedom has not been fully achieved.

    the fact we removed our territorial claim to our territory doesn't ultimately change anything really as northern ireland is irish and the treaty signed partitioning the island into a sectarian apartheid state and a former sectarian catholic state was signed under duress.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Your post is actually ridiculous, we abandoned the claim because we had given up on it, Ireland was partitioned against the will of the vast majority of people in Ireland under the threat of immediate and terrible war.

    We gave up our claim to it in 98 to make a peace deal and stop all the killing.

    How you say something like ''democracy it's fantastic'' in regards to us giving up our claim to Northern Ireland is bizarre to say the least.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Our claim to the 6 counties was legitimate and then given up after over 60 years for the sake of peace.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    actually we are supported by a majority as a majority support a UI.

    sf will be in government likely on a majority here in the south, and will probably end up being the main government in NI, they support reunification and the full deliverance of irish freedom, which will be realized upon the reunification of ireland which brings an end to the fight for irish freedom once and for all.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    Because we are actually able to take our heads out of the history book and live in the real world were peace is wonderful. A united Ireland now would just be an utterly pointless headache.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Apart from actually letting the people of Ireland decide their own destiny rather than sitting on their hands waiting for Boris Johnson to decide what happens with the IRISH border and other matters, there are numerous reasons there are of course people like yourself who are very vein and can't see past next year and are only worried about a few extra euro in their pockets, of course things like unity and putting the past behind us and finally moving on as a nation mean very little to greedy self interested partitionists like yourself but mean a lot to a lot of people.

    A 2015 report entitled ‘Modelling Irish Unification’, by Dr Kurt Hubner and Dr Renger Van Nieuwkoop analysed the economic benefits that could arise from having a single state on the island of Ireland. It calculated that unification could boost all-island GDP in the first 8 years by €35.6bn. The north is predicted to benefit the most (unsurprisingly, as it’s starting from a lower base), with its per capita GDP estimated to grow by between 4.5% and 7%. This supports the belief that any taxpayer subsidies required from the south to pay for unification would decline over time, by enabling the north’s economy to improve. 

    Cost is usually portrayed as the biggest issue – with the British Exchequer’s £10bn annual subvention towards NI (the difference between what the north raises in taxes and what it costs to provide services there) presumed to be a deal-breaker for many in the south. In reality the NET cost of NI to Britain once UK-specific costs like debt, contributions to defence etc are stripped out is closer to only £5 billion a year.

    And of course there are the millions of people who died fighting for an independent Ireland, we could go ahead and spit on their graves by rejecting it for the sake of a few extra euro which I'm sure you'd have no problem doing, but I would.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,409 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    I think you might be a bit out with your "Millions who died fighting for Ireland".



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    'of course there are the millions of people who died fighting for an independent Ireland'

    Really?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    According to the Geneva Convention this article states that the certain minimum rules of war apply to armed conflicts "where at least one Party is not a State". The interpretation of the term armed conflict and therefore the applicability of this article is a matter of debate. For example, it would apply to conflicts between the Government and rebel forces, or between two rebel forces, or to other conflicts that have all the characteristics of war, whether carried out within the confines of one country or not. There are two criteria to distinguish non-international armed conflicts from lower forms of violence. The level of violence has to be of certain intensity, for example when the state cannot contain the situation with regular police forces. Also, involved non-state groups need to have a certain level of organization, like a military command structure.

    When the British Army went to take back the nó go areas from the IRA in 1972 during operation motorman the ministry of defence estimated (if the IRA decided to stand their ground) that there would have been at least 5,000 dead/injured soldiers from the fighting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Hundreds of thousands, whatever, it was an exaggerated term not meant to be taken literally.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,105 ✭✭✭Trigger Happy


    Exaggerated...a bit like describing the troubles as a war.



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