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The Hobby Horses of Belief (and assorted hazards)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,120 ✭✭✭Odhinn




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,754 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Strangely enough, it appears he was a convert to Christianity though sectioned under the mental health act some years previously. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-59301708 The other suspects involved have also been released. It will be interesting to see how this one plays out, while it has been declared as a terrorist incident based on the bomb / incendiary device it hasn't been linked to any group or ideology.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Yeah. This is curious because pretty central to the idea of terrorism is that you are committing atrocities at least nominally to advance some at least vaguely political objective (as opposed to just because you like killing people, like a US school shooter, say). If they don't know why this guy did what he did, it seems a little early to categorise the incident as a terrorist one. But it is possible that the authorities know a bit more about his motivation than they have publicly said so far.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,059 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The Burkes lose their case against NUIG.

    In his judgment on Monday, Judge Raymond Groarke noted the case arose after NUIG’s university society co-ordination group (USCG) imposed the ban in 2014 on the siblings from being members of college societies.

    USCG said the ban arose because the Burkes distributed leaflets using the college logo which was against the college’s code of conduct and used college funds to pay for the leaflets and, by doing so, misrepresented the college. It also claimed they had shown no willingness to engage with an investigation committee and provided misleading information.

    In 2014, they were involved in distributing leaflets seeking a no vote in a referendum advocating Boycott Divestment Sanction of Israel in the context of its dealings with the people of Palestine. They also distributed flyers against gay marriage which implicitly connected gay marriage to paedophilia and incest. Some fellow students had complained about the leaflets and flyers.

    Judge Groarke was satisfied there were many procedural flaws in USCG’s handling of the matter and those were the result of “extraordinary and inexcusable” lack of knowledge of fair or proper procedures.

    However, he could not accept the procedural flaws were so “egregious” they could only have been motivated by conduct and/or intention to discriminate against them because of their religious beliefs. While some members of USCG and its investigating committee vehemently disagree with some opinions of the Burkes, that disagreement was not influenced by dislike of their religion, he said.

    There were “serious aggravating circumstances” in this case, he also held. Those included the failure of the Burkes to co-operate with the investigation, their efforts to hinder it, their failure to give a truthful account of matters, their fabrication of accounts and their misuse of CUS [Christian Union Society] funds, he said.

    Post edited by Hotblack Desiato on

    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,059 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The Hindu nationalist party of Indian prime minister Narendra Modi has banned the street sale of all non-vegetarian fare, including eggs and fish, in four major cities in his western home state of Gujarat as it “offended” Hindu religious sentiments.

    The Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)-run municipal corporations in Gujarat’s largest city of Ahmedabad imposed the restrictions this week, following those similarly enforced in nearby Bhavnagar, Rajkot and Vadodara, which ordered the removal of non-vegetarian food carts along all major roads.

    The embargo also prevents vendors from selling their merchandise within 100m of all religious places, parks and educational institutions in these cities, with local BJP councillors stating that such food had a negative impact on people’s minds, particularly children.

    Since the BJP assumed federal power in 2014, it has made India’s food habits an integral part of its politics, by imposing complex bans on individual beef consumption and outlawing cow slaughter, as the animals were considered holy by India’s majority Hindu community.

    Thereafter, the BJP has gradually extended this beef ban to include all other non-vegetarian fare, and over the past seven years has often proscribed its consumption during Hindu religious festivals in several states ruled by them.

    In August, the BJP government in Uttar Pradesh state north of Delhi completely banned the sale of meat in the temple town of Mathura, which lies some 180km from the federal capital, with a population of more than 2.6 million. Chief minister Yogi Adityanath said the restriction was being imposed at the behest of local Hindu priests.

    Gujarat opposition Congress Party leader Manish Doshi declared that the ban on non-vegetarian food carts was a “diversionary tactic” by the BJP to deflect attention from more serious issues like galloping unemployment, inflation and rising fuel prices.

    Other analysts said the veto on the food carts was a calculated BJP move to harass Muslims, who largely control India’s meat trade.

    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



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  • Registered Users Posts: 35,059 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato



    The leader of Spain’s main opposition party, Pablo Casado, is facing accusations of either being an extremist or of making a monumental blunder after attending a Mass dedicated to the late dictator Francisco Franco.

    Mr Casado, leader of the conservative Popular Party (PP), attended the service in a church annexed to Granada cathedral on Saturday, the anniversary of the death of General Franco in 1975. A small number of churches around the country continue to hold such masses every November 20th in tribute to Franco, who headed a brutal dictatorship for 36 years.

    However, the PP has insisted the incident was an unfortunate coincidence. Mr Casado was in Granada to take part in the convention of the Andalucían wing of his party and a PP spokesperson said that he and his family had attended the Mass on Saturday because they wouldn’t be able to on Sunday.

    The archbishopric of Granada also played down the incident, with a spokesperson telling local media that “someone organised a Mass for someone’s memory and his name was said, but there’s not much more to it”.

    However, details of the service have emerged suggesting the far-right nature of the service was obvious. A photograph reportedly taken during the Mass and published by elDiario.es news site shows a pro-Franco flag hanging over one of the front pews.

    During the service, the priest spoke the first names of Francisco Franco and José Antonio Primo de Rivera, another icon of the far right, but not their surnames.

    Afterwards, by the entrance to the cathedral, people brandished Francoist flags and sang Cara al Sol, the anthem of pro-Franco soldiers during the 1936-39 civil war, according to reports.

    The Francisco Franco Association, which promotes the legacy of the dictator, said in a statement that it had not invited the PP leader to the service, but it thanked all those who had attended “the Mass to pray for the soul of an exemplary Christian like Francisco Franco Bahamonde”.


    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,059 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato



    A little known sect led by a pastor who pokes eyes to heal is at the centre of a Covid-19 outbreak in South Korea, as the country reported a new daily record of 4,116 cases and battles a spike in serious cases straining hospitals.

    In a tiny rural church in a town of 427 residents in Cheonan city, south of Seoul, at least 241 people linked to the religious community had tested positive for coronavirus, a city official said.

    Many of the congregation were aged in their 60s and above and were unvaccinated, the official said. Just 17 out of the 241 confirmed cases had been vaccinated.

    "I believe it's the church's anti-government beliefs that refrained the believers to get the vaccine," the official said, adding that the town was put under a lockdown.

    Fackin' morons 🙄

    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    "A little known sect led by a pastor who pokes eyes to heal"

    Never heard of that before - any more info?

    Googling for the above produces a) a small number of reports from reliable media outlets, with similar prose; or b) popup trash media outlets copying the text from reliable media outlets word-for-word.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,059 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Well I think I'd have to infiltrate to learn any more, and I'm not really willing to do that 😎

    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,575 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Adieu, archybishop Aupetit of Paris. Don't be messing around with dem wimmins. Maybe his replacement will be able to keep it in his cassock:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/paris-archbishop-resigns-over-alleged-relationship/vi-AARoUsB



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Makes a welcome change to see a priest in a relationship with somebody capable of providing consent. The man should be applauded.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,059 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Pakistani mob kills Sri Lankan over alleged blasphemy - Independent.ie


    A mob has descended on a sports equipment factory in Pakistan’s eastern Punjab province, killing a Sri Lankan man and burning his body publicly over allegations of blasphemy, police said.

    Armagan Gondal, a police chief in the district of Sialkot, said Muslim factory workers had accused the victim of desecrating posters bearing the name of Islam’s Prophet Muhammad.

    Police said initial information shows Priyantha Kumara was lynched inside the factory.

    Videos on social media showed the mob dragging the man’s heavily bruised body outside, where they burned it, surrounded by hundreds who cheered on the killers.


    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,059 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Oopsie.

    A Roman Catholic diocese in Sicily has apologised to parents after its bishop reportedly told a group of children that Santa Claus did not exist.

    At a religious event last week, Bishop Antonio Staglianò also said Santa's red costume had been chosen by Coca-Cola for publicity, Italian media report.

    The comments infuriated parents.

    In an apology, Rev Alessandro Paolino, from the diocese of Noto, said the bishop had tried to underline the true meaning of Christmas.

    He also said the comments had been aimed at highlighting the story of Saint Nicholas, the initial inspiration for the figure of Santa Claus and known for giving gifts to the poor.

    "First of all, on behalf of the bishop, I express my sorrow for this declaration, which has created disappointment in the little ones, and want to specify that Monsignor Stagliano's intentions were quite different," Rev Paolino said in a post on the diocesan Facebook page.

    Rev Paolino, who is the communications director for the diocese of Noto, said the bishop had wanted the children to "reflect about the meaning of Christmas", saying that the date had become known for consumerism.

    "If we can all draw a lesson, young or old, from the figure of Santa Claus... it is this: fewer gifts to 'create' and 'consume' and more 'gifts' to share," the statement said.

    In an interview with newspaper La Repubblica, the bishop said he had not told the children that Santa did not exist but that there was a need to "distinguish what is real from what is not".

    "A real fact has emerged, namely that Christmas no longer belongs to Christians," he said (in Italian). "The Christmas atmosphere between lights and shopping has taken the place of Christmas."


    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,385 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    I liked this bit

    the bishop said he had not told the children that Santa did not exist but that there was a need to "distinguish what is real from what is not".

    Said by a man that has dedicated his life to something on the same level as Santa Claus



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,575 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Bishop stripped of powers after marrying author of occult erotica

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/bishop-erotica-author-xavier-novell-b1974650.html



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    "A real fact has emerged, namely that Christmas no longer belongs to Christians," he said (in Italian). "The Christmas atmosphere between lights and shopping has taken the place of Christmas."

    Said the silly man, oblivious to the fact that early christians appropriated the holiday from various elements of the festivals of Saturnalia and Sol Invictus which were - entirely predictably - lights and pressies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,059 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    According to El Mundo newspaper, Mr [ex-bishop] Novell, an agricultural engineer, is now working for an international firm which specialises in the preparation of doses for artificial swine insemination.

    Every porcine sperm is sacred!

    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Maria Butina, last seen in the west departing from Tallahassee Federal Correctional Institution where she spent nine months following a conviction for espionage while hobnobbing with the NRA and prominent Republicans, returned to Russia where she was "elected" to the Russian "parliament".

    Her latest concern in a country well-known for having an uncountable number of intractable issues at all levels within society, involves the sale of dolls within Russia, where she has found that dolls with non-white features are incompatible with the correct education of children.

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/12/15/lawmaker-convicted-in-us-of-being-russian-agent-seeks-to-regulate-childrens-dolls-a75820



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Amusing and depressing in equal measure, but I'm not entirely sure why this is turning up in the "hobby horses of belief" thread. Has Butina expressed any views on religious questions?



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Definitely more of a "manufactured culture war" newsitem than anything specifically religious, but then again, this thread is a broad church and unevidenced beliefs leading to bizarre behaviour and potentially, to crazy laws as well, is right up its aisle.

    It would be easy to list a thousand issues which the Russian state could profitably deal with to the benefit of the country, its population and the world at large - not the least of which is to determine precisely what the f*ck Mr Putin's longterm plans are for the huge numbers of his well-equipped, but poorly-trailed and poorly-disciplined army which have recently marched up to the borders of Ukraine and now fester there, angrily and dangerously.

    But insidious cultural problems emanating from little dolls made of brown plastic isn't one of them.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,575 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Jeebus is coming back, and apparently demands cash. So the LDS has been hoarding some $$. Like, $100bn. This was too much for this wealthy, now Ex, Mormon


    https://friendlyatheist.substack.com/p/the-richest-man-in-utah-just-quit



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,059 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    India's government has refused to renew the foreign-funding licence for a charity founded by Mother Teresa.

    The Missionaries of Charity has thousands of nuns supervising projects like homes for abandoned children, schools, clinics and hospices.

    On Christmas Day, India's home ministry announced it had not renewed the registration due to "adverse inputs".

    Hindu hardliners have long accused the charity of using its programmes to convert people to Christianity.

    The charity has denied these allegations.


    Hindu vigilante groups disrupted Christmas celebrations in parts of the country this year, protesting outside religious gatherings, and vandalising a church in northern India.

    The majority of India's population are Hindu. But there are around 24 million Christians in the country - around 2% of the population - and it is home to the second-largest Catholic community in Asia, behind the Philippines.

    Authorities have sought to crack down on alleged campaigns to convert Hindus to Christianity and Islam. Several BJP-ruled states have recently passed, or are considering passing laws that ban religious conversion for marriage.

    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,059 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Merely 20 minutes after arriving, while unpacking our suitcases, my mother dropped the bombshell that we still are prohibited from sharing a bed under their roof. Despite countless conversations about our visit, she waited until this moment to share that if we wanted to stay there, we'd have to sleep in separate rooms (which means I'd have to sleep on the couch, given the other visitors). Our marriage is valid, she explained, but it's not a sacramental marriage. We can sleep together under their roof one day if we choose to have our marriage blessed by a Catholic priest.

    Wow.

    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,575 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Good luck for Mom to ever see those grandchildren. It's why divorcing toxic parents is so commonly a thing these days.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    During Christmas visit, Catholic parents wouldn't let me share bed with my wife

    Happens in our extended family too. Popette has a standing rule that anybody not married in the right kind of catholic church (ie, essentially the hardline SSPX-Resistance group) - is, de facto, unmarried and cannot sleep with their spouse in her home. As this rule has hardened over the last ten years or so from what used to be a general mention before a visit, to more recent incidents of her marching into bedrooms early in the morning to "check for towels", visits from her large, extended family have dwindled to the point of vanishing altogether. She seems quite proud of this.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    This week's angry churchman is the appropriately-named Michael Sparksman who hails from Howth and claims that the “right to worship is being overtaken by the right to cycle” as local council is erecting bollards to protect cyclists, and these bollards are preventing people parking illegally during church services.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/right-to-worship-being-overtaken-by-right-to-cycle-church-elder-claims-1.4767490



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,059 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    "The council suggested people walk, cycle or take public transport but that is really not viable given our age profile and the distances people come from”

    I'd wager that given their age profile, driving won't be a viable option for many in a few years either...

    Mr Sparksman said he accepted parking was “not strictly” permitted on the road, but that churchgoers had never been ticketed for the short duration of services.

    No doubt he'd have been whinging his head off if the law had been enforced as it should have been.

    Constitutional right to worship does not give you a right to occupy public property for the free storage of your private property. Tough.

    Except in Galway though 🙄


    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Constitutional right to worship does not give you a right to occupy public property for the free storage of your private property. Tough. Except in Galway though 

    The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster should declare that parking a car is an vital part of an FSM religious service.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,575 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    So we could rock up to Galway and have a FSM uhh.... meetup complete with gorging on ramen noodles, and it'd be o.k. to park there? Count me in if so.



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Lainie Chait works, or worked, for a "wellness clinic" selling, amongst other things, medicinal hemp, at the splendidly-named Church of Ubuntu in Newcastle, Australia. In October, Ms Chait was fired when her boss learned that she'd been vaccinated since the boss knows that Jesus hates vaccines. Ms Chait took a case for unfair dismissal against the church and it seems the matter might drag in a few more pending cases in which it seems to have slipped the minds of religious organizations that it's the state that makes the law, not them.

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/sacked-for-being-vaxxed-church-defends-decision-to-terminate-worker-who-got-covid-jab-20211230-p59kvu.html



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