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Hate Speech Public Consultation

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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    It does the opposite - it protects and promotes democracy.

    It gives even further protection to the likes of Mr. Martin… even if he is a miserable cnut.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭political analyst




  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Indeed. Good point. Protesters suggesting Leo Varadkar is a paedophile because he's gay as an example.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,415 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    rather interesting that the first example the OP thought of was:

    (e.g. gender-critical feminists' opposition to the use of women's changing-rooms by biologically-male persons who identify as being trans-women) because of the fear of being prosecuted.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim



    Half of your argumentative arsenal is calling people a bigot in some shape or form, which is common with supporters of such legislation. Anyone who's been around for awhile, knows that many people with such minds, love to call said "bigotry", "hate speech". Those people likely think this legislation will be to their benefit, so when those people tells us it will all be ok, it holds zero weight.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well you posted it here, as fact. You didn't even post the actual letter.

    So I'm calling bullshit, it's not true.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That is not the definition of hate speech. Maybe look it up 🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭sekiro


    In the end they will end up being the victims of the legislation they wanted anyway.

    The fact is that most genuine racists and bigots in modern society know better than to express those views online or in public. They will find their own private little groups and express themselves there or in person. They'll be the people who already know their views are controversial and offensive so they keep their mouths shut until they feel safe.

    However, the people who can't shut their mouths on social media or at work etc are always walking the tightrope. They may eventually say just one thing that's a bit iffy and their group will turn on them and use the apparatus they spent so long setting up on their own "side".

    That's more or less what "cancel culture" is now. People who are mostly "on message" making a small misstep and then being absolutely hounded and destroyed by their former "comrades".

    Teenage boys from Eastern Europe posting horrendously bigoted stuff behind fake accounts on Twitter and on 4Chan etc are never ever going to be held accountable. Daft Mary from your office who is always on board with every single progressive campaign accidentally letting slip that she feels uncomfortable that a former man might be using the ladies changing room at the gym? Oh they'll definitely make her pay for that.

    In addition to all that, I think for a lot of people online I think the endless calling of "bigotry", "racism" and "hate speech" is borne for a genuine fear that their own past will catch up with them. That joke they made in college. That time in high school when they bullied the minority kid in class. That time they got drunk with friends and admitted they'd never sleep with a trans-person. They think if they just support the cause hard enough and relentlessly enough that they will never be found out.

    People, with closets absolutely chock full of skeletons, overcompensating.

    It won't work.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Eh, we don't all live our lives through boards.ie. And this is essentially what Helen McEntee is doing - applying the boards.ie code of conduct to everyone in the country. It's disgusting.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭political analyst


    I didn't post it as fact - I posted it as a point that was made by the author of a letter to the editor of the Indo. I didn't say whether or not it was true - I asked a question about the topic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    Gas how those who would most likely identify themselves as free thinkers and people who want to speak out against injustice are the ones cheering on giving more power to institutions to crack down on speech and expression... strange times.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If you were interested in a thread on the topic, is there some reason you didn't just do that? And perhaps post some actual facts about that topic?



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    If someone is prosecuted for actively going out of his way to "promote the use of knacker babies as sharkbait" - I'm perfectly ok with that. Unfortunately it wasnt prosecutable under the current 1989 law.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin


    And so the Overton window shrinks further, this is predictably lauded by the usual crowd who love to have their (and others) freedoms restricted.

    As Noam Chomsky once said on the matter:

    ”The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum—even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate.”

    But as per usual this is all disregarded and anyone who disagrees even slightly is (probably) just a racist so who cares



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I've got a feeling that in 20yrs a hate speech conviction will be a badge of honour similar to having convictions for resisting the communist state.. eg a Polish solidarity activist



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,446 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    Who defines what hate speech is?


    That's the problem, it can't be defined.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,504 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Nothing free thinking about the WOKE


    Deeply conformist in terms of the approved narrative



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It doesn't "threaten democracy"; that's just an exaggeration.

    But it does create a culture of fear that certain perfectly respectable opinions cannot be uttered in public, what's known as a chilling effect.

    And that is a total disgrace.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's clearly obvious that no poster has even read the Bill



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭John Doe1


    Examples of recent cases using the UK Hate speech laws for reference:

    *On 23 April 2018, Scottish YouTuber Mark Meechan of CoatbridgeNorth Lanarkshire was fined £800 after being found "grossly offensive" for posting a YouTube video that was viewed over 3 million times depicting him training his girlfriend's pug to respond to the phrase "Sieg Heil" by lifting his paw in a Nazi salute.

    *In 2017, 19-year old Croxteth resident Chelsea Russell quoted a line from Snap Dogg's song "I'm Trippin'" on her Instagram page. The line, which read "Kill a snitch nigga, rob a rich nigga", was copied from a friend's page as part of a tribute to Frankie Murphy who was killed in a car accident at age 13. Hate crime investigators were alerted to the presence of the slur and charged Russell with "sending a grossly offensive message by means of a public electronic communications network".



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    Some excerpts I'd love some clarification on from the people bringing this bill into law

    A person may be found guilty of an offence under this section

    irrespective of;

    (a) whether or not the communication the subject of the offence was

    successful in inciting any other person to hatred, and,

    (b) whether or not any actual instance of harm or unlawful

    discrimination is shown to have occurred, or to have been likely to

    occur, as a result.

    when determining whether an offence was motivated by prejudice, one of the reasons is simply :

    Ethnic, religious or cultural differences between the perpetrator and the victim 


    In determining motivation by prejudice for the purposes of this Act, it shall not

    be necessary to show that prejudice was the only, or the principal motivation

    for the offence.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Police resources should not be used for this kind of thing.

    What a total waste of police resources.



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    if that is signed into law, every single person on the planet has been guilty of an offence at some stage



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Like as in someone may be found guilty of hate speech irrespective of whether hate speech actually occurred?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's absolutely not straightforward.

    Only lawyers would love legislation written as inexact and elastically as that.

    ** lawyers, and people who favour limiting free speech because they dislike other people's opinions / and, or science that disagrees with their worldview



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  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    No, ffs.

    You act like this hasn't happened for years.

    It's against the law to make a death threat against someone. Is that limiting 'free speech'?

    Just because you are capable of spreading vile hatred doesn't mean you should be allowed to do so at your own free will.

    Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of speech without consequence. It's literally always been the way.



This discussion has been closed.
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