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Schools and Covid 19 (part 5) **Mod warnings in OP**

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭Sammy2012


    Thats not true. If a school has to close for whatever reason there is leeway to cancel things like school tours, sports days etc if the school feels that the time lost can not be made it. Working extra days is the last resort. This has come up before when schools had to close for weather related issues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,256 ✭✭✭✭km79


    Schools who close due to staff shortages will move online I would say



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    True, but online learning will kick in before that becomes an issue.

    First week of Easter has already been given over to leaving cert oral exams.

    If Omicron is as mild as we all say then theres nothing to stop even the majority of the positive ones from teaching from home.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,159 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    The lollipop lady in our estate was out sicks for about 2 months before Christmas . The road is very dangerous for kids and yet she wasn’t replaced leaving kids in danger . They were far more at risk crossing the road than from Covid but no one in authority paid any attention . Its all about Covid now and other risks being ignored .



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    You gotta love how everyone for the past 2 years has been "I trust the experts, I trust scientists!"

    But as soon as the scientist come out with something people don't like, union reps, teachers and unemployed mammies on facebook know more than them and should be trusted over the experts!

    Childs ombudsman who's a doctor said today schools should open as normal.

    I trust the experts, I trust scientists...schools should be open!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    LOL.

    You claim to trust science and a previous thread you think autism is just an excuse people's behaviour or some sort of fad. Sure..... You trust science when it suits your own opinion.

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Well yeah, but I'm just pointing out tjlhat there will be schools that will not have the staff to open due to Covid positive, awaiting PCR, or isolating. Just the way things are. It will be hit and miss for the next couple weeks.

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭Anything4883


    Can Schools not just take it as a class by class basis- If the teacher is out due to Covid (find a sub), if none available- Class is off for the 10 days that it takes for Teacher to isolate and return.


    The amount of people online saying to wait until kids are vaccinated?? I doubt many parents will get their kids vaccinated at all to be honest. Most kids have a mild cold from this.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭Leftwaffe


    Just out of curiosity, in post-primary if no subs available, how can the class be given 10 days off? Do they go home for that class? They’ve 5 or 7 other classes with different teachers depending in length of class on the school. What’s the solution there???



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    I think the most difficult situation to cope effectively with will be the schools who are neither fully open nor fully closed.

    Trying to plan for a school where you can't predict what staff will be in or out or what number of students will be in or out.

    Staff who are in will have to support both in person and streaming for remote teaching at the same time.

    At what level of student absenteeism (on a per class, per subject basis) will a teacher live stream a classroom based lesson for the benefit of absent students?

    Staff who are out will need to remote stream to the classroom for students who are in and to students who are absent.

    Students who are in may have one lesson in person and the next streamed to the classroom with an unqualified supervisor (if one can be found) in the class for insurance purposes. Or do we just not teach that subject for a week or two?

    Can our schools support a teaching model which is ad-hoc in person mixed-hybrid and is constantly changing in an unpredictable manner?

    I'd hate to have to try organising that! As soon as you have a plan made, it has changed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭Anything4883


    Double classes for the ones they can go to, with some study classes in between !



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    So you agree with the Minister. Just so we are clear.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    No I do not believe that schools are safe. But it is what it is.

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    And if the teacher who taught them for the 1st lesson is scheduled to teach a different class for the 2nd lesson or there's nobody available to supervise study classes?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    Unions climbing down tonight. Opposition with nothing constructive to say.

    Well done Norma Foley.



  • Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭Pigeon Chaser


    What is unsafe about schools? It's a headcold bro ...



  • Administrators Posts: 54,168 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Even SF are giving a wishy-washy response to this which suggests that the union support here is the square root of fcuk all.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    No votes in it, no opinion from SF. That's leadership!



  • Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭Anything4883


    There will have to be a bit of scheduling / unplanned changes obviously, but its better then closing them all completely isnt it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭Leftwaffe


    Clearly someone who doesn’t know how a school works tbh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭jrosen


    In our school the kids attended as usual and the class that the teacher was absent was taught remotely by that teacher at home. He was obviously well enough to do so. Other times there was work sent to the kids to cover in class and they did so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭Leftwaffe


    That’s fine, if there’s no subs who supervises the class and sets up the live stream etc? Not being smart but none of that addresses the issue. 24 students won’t supervise themselves in a class room and set up a live class.

    I’m all for a full reopening but just scrap this absolute madness that is the testing and isolation requirements. If we don’t do that schools are in trouble between close contacts and positive cases. Something has to give.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,776 ✭✭✭donaghs


    I think you’re redefining the meaning of the word “safe”?

    what’s the danger? We’ve been through Delta, and now we have an even milder variant. So what’s the problem with opening schools?

    the omicron wave has already passed through South Africa, there’s no need for hysteria about “cases”. Driving a car is much much more dangerous.



  • Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭orecir


    The meeting today being online is peak Norma Foley.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭Marty Bird


    Schools are not a magical virus free place we all knew that from the start, this virus is absolutely nothing to healthy children. If parents that have a risk to bring it back to vulnerable persons, don’t sent you children in but the world must go on.

    🌞6.02kWp⚡️3.01kWp South/East⚡️3.01kWp West



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Care to educate me or point out the error in my reasoning?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭Leftwaffe


    I’m not sure if you’ve read the posts correctly. It doesn’t matter if a teacher is teaching remotely or not, there still needs to be a sub in the classroom. Teaching remotely is nothing to do with this.


    Edit: You picked up my post wrong, I was agreeing with you saying the other poster doesn’t know how a school works.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    That will work to a point but we are dealing with an potentially unprecedented level of both staff and pupil absenteeism. You can only replan so much.

    At some point it becomes an intractable problem beyond which the predictability of fully remote may be better as staff or pupils isolating or restricting contacts wouldn't effect their ability to take part in a lesson.

    There may be some fixed infrastructure problems e.g. staff or student access to reliable broadband or suitable devices but being fixed, fixed solutions can be sought as opposed to the moving target of what staff are in today, have we enough staff / subs to supervise all classes, etc... and only figuring out on the day that there just aren't enough staff / subs to go around.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    I misinterpreted your post. I thought you were asking if I knew how schools worked.

    It's going to be something of a roller coaster for a while.



  • Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭Anything4883


    It seems the people that think remote schooling works dont have children or clearly doesnt know what's best for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭ax530


    Spoke to a primary school teacher recently, Dublin based said they have no issues getting subs now that student teachers can do it.

    I delighted school opening lots of children have not seen other children outside family since school closed for Christmas.

    Children are most fed up with covid at this stage. Let them into school no doubt it will be yoyo students& staff in and out for few weeks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    It's not a question of what's best but what's best under the circumstances. The younger the children the greater the compromise.

    Luckily all my children were 2nd and 3rd level so the question of child care / home teaching / working at the same time didn't arise.

    3rd level actually found it better. Either pre- recorded or live lectures which were recorded and also downloadable from Moodle later could be rewatched if they wanted to go over a particular point or later for revision. There's not much one to one interaction in a lecture hall with 100+ students in it anyway.

    2nd level depended on their motivation. Luckily mine were motivated and attendance to online classes was good but they did need more help with explanations and homework than they would have when school was in person.

    Luckily I'm past the primary school children age, that would have been a whole different kettle of fish. I don't envy anyone who was trying to home school one or more primary school children especially if they either had to work from home also or take leave or give up work because they had no alternative childcare .



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    Well if you think Norma Batty is a great minister for education, you have to be one of her Kerry voters. What has she done for education or schools and children with special needs since she has being in office. Feck all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,718 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    I'm not sure how many medical vulnerable kida have ended up in hospital from Covid though. Is it amy different to them catching a cold or flu. I wouldnt think its an issue to be honest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,718 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Id second it. She is one of the few who has stood up firmly to the unions. Hasnt got everything right but has done a decent job imho.



  • Registered Users Posts: 409 ✭✭holliehobbie


    Would you believe my daughter nearly went to her appointment on the wrong date! Luckily she checked just before she left the house! I think she only got the appointment because she’s working in a health care setting. It’s actually for today!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It’ll be a mad few weeks, and we’ll certainly be under pressure for a while. But that’s life. We won’t be the only sector under pressure.

    It’ll be messy with absences and staff shortages. But it has been before with the shortage of subs. We got through it. Some schools will find it hard, classes, years and even schools might be sent home at some point. But they’ll come back, and it’ll be fine. The answer to disruption and pressure isn’t to close down.

    I think some union reps and spokespeople have realised tonight they did more bad than good with their staggering plea for staggered returns. The only people seemingly wanting schools to close seem to be a few within the unions, and a screaming mob of ISAG influenced moaners on Twitter and Facebook. If unions are now pandering to the shouty mob then they’ve backed the wrong horse.

    In the real world, scientists, public health, children’s advocates, politicians - government and opposition, teachers and kids just want schools to reopen as normal.

    And when they speak of ‘measures’. What measures? Not much is going to stop an airborne virus that will probably infect a good percentage of the population in the next few weeks, causing not much more than a bad head cold for a high percentage. Anyone at risk should be vaccinated and boosted if wanted. Distancing, pods, masks under kids noses, staggered starts all seem fairly pointless given the science. Tracing isn’t going to be reintroduced for kids and teachers when the noises are that isolation times and close contact rules in general will be eased. Filters would be useful, but by the time they’d even be supplied, there’s a good chance the wave has passed and they won’t be needed.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,718 ✭✭✭Gusser09




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭airy fairy


    Maybe it's already been said, but what happens with teacher absences and leaving cert kids? Surely the school with teacher absences is at a disadvantage to the school that have less missing teachers at LC level?

    Is it tough?



  • Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭orecir


    Only fair for the current 6th year thst the hybrid exam/predicted grades model for the LC is used again this year.


    Needs to be announced ASAP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,411 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    If you equate doing a good job to doing sweet fcuk all, sticking one's head in the sand and intoning the mantra of "schools are safe" ad nauseam without any sort of actual reasoning/data as to how they can possibly be, then yes Norma Foley has done a top notch job 👍 she's also very good at hiding.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,411 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    100% but we all know it will be left until after Easter until the department announce it if they do, completely unfair on 6th years yet again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,836 ✭✭✭Trampas


    Norma saying schools are in a controlled environment. What’s the difference between a school and pub or anywhere else that makes it safer.


    Department there to help. Same department who told schools to find your own filters etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Pubs are open, they are regarded as safe enough to keep open, like schools. There would be a lot less alcohol consumed in schools.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,159 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    The difference between a school and a pub is that schools are totally necessary and vital for our childrens well being and education .Pubs are not . So we have to live with the risk of schools and try to find a way .



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    Not a massive fan of Norma Foley but she's screwed here. Everyone knows that there will be a lot of instances of classes being sent home because of covid.


    This decision will be judged against a standard that doesn't exist (i.e. that there is some obvious right/perfect answer). There are a couple of choices here - close schools or try and keep them open. Either will result in a shitshow and criticism of the government and Foley particularly.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty



    I think this is it, this is going to be a problem for a few weeks.It isn't a permanent issue (well, look, our staffing isses appear to be permanent but I don't see anybody lining up to address that).If classes are sent home then look, they are sent home. Honestly think that is better than being subjected to an indefinite online situation, that nobody will put an end date on.

    And to follow on from the poster saying online was ok for 3rd and 2nd level, you're right -it was useless for primary.Childcare is a separate thing and thankfully wasn't a problem in our house but actually trying to school a JI and then SI via apps, Zoom, emails and random educational links - just a disaster.The teacher was brilliant but the kids lost all interest after about 2 weeks and it was of very little value.



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