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Schools and Covid 19 (part 5) **Mod warnings in OP**

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,300 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Omicron is sweeping USA. School closings spotted across the country. No uniform plan or practices implemented as a nation. Hit and miss. Hence huge COVID spike after holidays and face-to- face instruction.

    There are exceptions. My university employer remains consistent. ALL students, faculty, staff, administration, and campus visitors: Thou shall be vaccinated. No exceptions. Plus masking will be enforced. No exceptions. Science not politics rules on campus.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    Thanks for clarifying. I'm not a primary teacher so didn't realise that. Wow, feel for you guys going back. To be fair, in secondary, we've at least got a couple of measures going.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Hi folks

    Can anyone tell me what they think the isolation period is for children who are negative, but household close contacts?

    In simple terms, how many days and from when....

    I cant work it out.


    Thanks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 389 ✭✭Vaccinated30


    17 days from when the +ve case had symptoms / had pcr



  • Registered Users Posts: 18 Msbookeeper


    As a post primary teacher, in a modern school, students are definitely not that far away from each other in class. Regardless at break/lunchtime they're all over each other, no masks as they are "eating/drinking" it's a fallacy to believe these measures are enforceable in a secondary school with 100s of kids walking the halls during breaks vs 4/5 teachers on supervision.



  • Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭Pigeon Chaser


    FAO Teachers. Yes, schools are "safe" .. not because of any mitigation measures put in place. They are safe because Covid is a very mild disease. It's likely you have had it / will have it and not even realise 😮


    FAO Teachers Unions. There's nothing I love more than seeing you put back in your box. 😁


    Looking forward to walking my 3 kids to school tomorrow. They are driving me mad 😨



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,554 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    What a parent you are. Maybe you shouldn't have had kids if they're that much of a burden?



  • Registered Users Posts: 18 Msbookeeper


    I'm sure your kids feel the same about you, being that bitter of person must wear on people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    Your desks and chairs are not 1.1m apart in your school? They should be - why are your lead workers not enforcing this with your principal?

    At break and lunch they eat, but in our school there is a strict policy of remaining in their seats to eat with mask off if they must remain indoors, but they are encouraged to go outdoors to eat. A huge amount of planning went into rezoning areas of the school to make sure every year group has access to outdoor space. Yes, we have the space to do it, we are lucky.

    You guys need to go to your lead workers and tell them you need more supervisors. There is money to provide additional supervision, it can be used on the halls and corridors if that's where you need it. Your principal and deputy should be patrolling too to ensure compliance.

    How long is your lunch time? Ours was 50mins but we reduced it to 30mins and shortened the school day by 20mins. 30mins is less time to supervise so you can have more teachers and it also doesn't allow students to get too wound up because, to be fair to them, they are only doing what comes natural to them at break and lunch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    17 days?

    Not to be shooting the messenger, but janey mack - if you were a builder I'd definitely be looking for a second quote....



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18 Msbookeeper


    Haha no,at least in my experience in the classroom for the last 2 years. Perhaps from the far corner of a desk to the back of next person's chair but of course students sit behind desks not at the front so definitely not 1.1m apart. Even if it was the desks would need to be bolted to floor or else they get moved throughout the day. Not to mention most classes are plus 30 seats/desks and all the other things like cabinets etc. Have to fit into rooms. Again this "control" has no impact on an airborne virus, like most of all the other measures, like spaces between seats in a canteen or washing hands, it's airborne. The only effective thing is open windows/wear masks, which should be done, the rest of it is for optics/hubris that the Dept or school can control the school environment regarding this virus and keep mammy and daddy from calling their local TD.


    Look I'm happy to be back in, easier to teach in person but the PR spin put on these covid measures is frustrating and flat out lies in some contexts.


    As regards making demands of our management, c'mon, your having a laugh there?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,718 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Agreed. I think though we have reached a point where we don't need measures enforced anymore. This thing will rip. Children aren't in danger at all from it. I wouldn't be worried at all if they got rid of all measures in my kids school in the morning. They just don't help.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    Well, I dunno. Your principal is not very good in that case. It is hardly making demands either - the role of the lead worker is to liaise with the principal on your behalf, regarding all things Covid-related.

    I don't know, maybe I am just really really lucky, but we have two lead workers and they are absolutely smashing! Cabinets, lockers, presses etc were removed from all the classrooms to make space to separate students out. They painted little dots on the floor to mark out the 1.1m distances so that when the tables and chairs got moved, they could easily be fixed back to where they were supposed to be.

    Our principal is 100% open to everything that is suggested. Our principal assists with S&S if we are stuck or if we point out a black or blind spot.

    The Department is beyond useless, but that's not a Covid thing. They've been like that since as far back as I can remember. At least Covid has outed them to the general public!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    Wow. That's interesting. What is it that they just don't help?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,718 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Well the kids mix anyway. Way to school and way home. Outside of school. In the yard.

    Just let them at it now. Obviously masks should remain but anything apart from that is probably not helping a lot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    Probably not. I'll be honest, I don't know. But, my principal and lead workers made huge efforts to at least make the effort and I really appreciate that and I tell them that regularly too.

    In an era where wellbeing is the buzz word of the century, what harm in taking out a couple of presses and bookshelves if it makes teachers and some kids feel better? (there are some students nervous of Covid, whether they need to be or not)



  • Registered Users Posts: 18 Msbookeeper


    Well that's sort of my point, there's been millions spent on hand sanitizer, stickers etc., measure after measure, euro after euro, to what gain? Placating the public and keeping them off the Govs back. They won't bloody purchase masks/air purifiers or test kits for school and they are the only thing half useful.

    Even in your situation, which sounds perfect, but really I doubt it's much safer than our classrooms despite having what sounds like military precision planning. I mean there's no virologist in the world who would stand over 1.1 M being an effective measure for airborne virus, someone in the Dept got out their calculator and divided the avg class size in M by avg class size in students and voila the Dept have a safety measure to be rolled out, it's a red herring.


    The Government needs to be seen to have an element of control and hence these easy to repeat measures are parroted and if they do it enough times people believe them. It's all optics and I wish they were called out on it by the media.



  • Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭Pigeon Chaser


    Never said they were a burden ... Just that they are driving me daft.


    Anyway, I'm happy common sense has prevailed and schools will open as normal tomorrow.



  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭noplacehere


    I’m VHR so they had spotty teaching last year, then I went down with a bad dose of illness this year and they missed more time. It’s not their fault and not like I could have done anything about being sick but there’s no qualified subs. So they’ve missed a lot



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Just got word that we'll be missing between 35 and 40% of the students tomorrow going by the parents that have emailed so far. Not sure about staff. Going to make continuity of education a bloody disaster.... this is going to be a long month....



  • Registered Users Posts: 30 TheCrank


    Got word this evening that my child's secondary school is only open for 3rd and 6th years tomorrow and Friday due to a staff shortage. Seems like a sensible call to me but I'd love to know what the teachers have been at for the last two weeks. Half of them have already been out with covid during the Autumn term.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    Are you for real with a comment like that?

    Do you think that of everyone in the country who is either positive or isolating tomorrow?

    The absolute cheek of you



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,718 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Couple of relatives who are teachers giving out stink on whatsapp at the moment. Saying parents treat school as a glorified babbysitting service. Well duh. Its part and parcel of schools. They arent happy at all. Apparently to do with safety. One of them on a foregin holiday with his kids over Christmas. LOL. Chancers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭JP100


    Ah, the infamous boards.ie poster/s coming on here and listing imaginary WhatsApp messages throughout this pandemic! It's as reliable now at this stage as death and taxes!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,718 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Ah yeh.

    I should have done a Tony Holohan on it and referred to the whatsapps as anecdotal instead. That would make it much more believable.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    So true. Can't wait to hear about it in 6 weeks time when I'm about to go back to work after yet another week off for Feb midterm



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,718 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    If your still around by then. What with the schools being such a scene of carnage.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Spent the last week doing this tortured calculation.1 pos, 2 neg here.

    The HSE were telling people 17 days isolation on the phone.I haven't spoken to them myself, missed their calls and no way to call them back.BUT.....this is not what is written on their website.In addition, I have received 2 emails from the school today, one quoting the HSE's advice direct from their site, the other a letter forwarded on by the principal from the Acting Director of Public Health in the HSE.Both say isolate for 14 days, get a PCR on Day 0 and Day 10 and if both are negative, they are ok to leave isolation. I've added the link below, I am not sure how old your kids are.

    I do not know why the advice on their website contradicts what they are saying on the phone, because I know they are saying 17 days to people with kids.But as far as I can see, the correspondence I have received so far mentions 14 and 10 days, so I am going with that.The obvious struggle being the part where you have get two PCR tests for them🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 30 TheCrank


    I am entirely for real. What's the problem with my comment? It's unfortunate that so many staff are ill or isolating and I wish them well. The school has made a good call in prioritising the exam years. I am also wondering how so many of the staff came to be in this position at the same time. It seems a normal thing to ponder. My sister-in-law's house came down with it and after the initial concern and well wishes the first thing that was asked was how did they get it? I'm confused by your outrage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭the corpo


    Missing because they're isolating or parents don't want to send them in?

    Our class whatsapp have a good few kids out, but other parents stressing over whether they should send their own kids back tomorrow



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  • Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭cant26


    I feel your pain! We were the same before Christmas, one positive and two negative. I was told on the phone the 17 days and couldn't believe it. Was the first time I had heard of it but as a previous poster said a few days ago I was told 17 days because I wasn't isolating my child with covid. Think if we had put him in a room it would have bee the day 1 test and day 10 test.

    Might have changed because I also received emails from our school this eve giving the same info you just mentioned. Honestly the 17 days was so hard no way will I do it again.

    Just to add I think the hse website has been updated. I definitely read 17 days when we were going through it in early Dec. I couldn't believe the contact tracer and had hoped I'd get different info from the hse.

    Pity you missed the calls because they automatically send you your day 1 and 10 test appointments. Hope you are nearing the end of it now!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭History Queen


    I'm not sure to be honest. I didn't ask, I would assume a mix of both.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    Oh, my sincerest apologies. I read your post all wrong. I thought you were being really ignorant and doing the usual 'jealous 9-5er who takes their own unhappiness with their work/life balance out on teachers' routine.

    I thought you were suggesting that teachers might have been visiting family or doing their shopping or maybe even going to the pub or getting a few Christmas presents and that you disapproved of this, in a way that would mean that you are of unsound or of no mind and all.

    But I was wrong. You care. You're a good guy. I'm sure they teachers will be delighted to get those well wishing emails from you in the morning or you might even pop in a card to the school

    Fair play to you

    You've actually made me wonder and now I too am curious - what it is your sister in law and the whole family were getting up to to end up with it too?

    Post edited by Bananaleaf on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭Sammy2012


    My family had PCR tests today. Myself and my husband had positive antigens and I got my kids tested too incase we test positive! Would today be their day 0 and then another test on day 10? So they can return to school on the 17th...its a nightmare! They haven't classic cold or flu symptoms either but had a couple of things wrong with them in the last week that could be covid related!



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Ah well, I had already got the Day 1 tests sorted privately myself because it was Christmas and the HSE was a mess so...🙄And we actually just got private tests today for Day 10 (actually Day 13 since the first pos antigen) and are still neg.But I can't be shelling out this much money if this happens again.Whole thing has been a very expensive farce tbh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭cant26


    Think it depends. My son was asymptomatic when he tested positive on an antigen. By the time he had the PCR and it came back positive he had symptoms. So the tracers said day 1 was from when he had symptoms if he remained asymptomatic day one would have been the day his antigen was pos. So for you it will depend on your circumstances if that makes sense!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭Sammy2012


    Yea I hear you! My kids are currently fine but have had one off vomiting and tummy issues in the last week. Oldest complaining of head and ear ache today....these are all symptoms! So who knows really! But we shall see what happens with our test results first! Its so hard to keep track of all the information



  • Administrators Posts: 54,168 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I really don't get this mindset of stressing about tomorrow.

    The numbers and the risk are going to be no different next week, or the week after. Unless these parents want to keep their kids in the house for weeks on end in a 2020-type lockdown their worrying is pointless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,159 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Best wishes to all teachers , SNAs and kids . Lets hope they can stay in school and manage the disruption as best they can . Its not easy but life is not easy for us all at the minute so we muddle through as best we can . Most adults will be putting kids first throughout all this and know how vital it is to keep them as safe but as stable as we can . Thier well being is vital so we plod along and do out best for them



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭SusanC10


    Both of ours (1 Primary, 1 Secondary) gone back today. Both fully vaccinated and wearing FFP2 Masks so hoping for the best.

    Primary has managed to get enough Subs to open all classes. Not sure on the Secondary but our son's Year are in anyway.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Thanks - that was 100% my reading of it too. The only issue I had was when does the 10/14 days start. E.g. you get a runny nose on a Tuesday, you do an antigen on the Wednesday - thats positive lets say, you then apply for a test - you dont do the test until Friday or Saturday, results come through on Sunday or Monday, nearly a week after symptoms begin. In the mean time there are close contacts in the house. When does their 10/14 days begin......



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    The other thing that confuses me on this - why is the isolation period longer for children than adults.

    For adults it seems to be 5 days, and thats it, assuming a negative PCR. Double for kids? Thats the reason I asked the question - I could see the 10/14 days on the HSE website, just couldnt see when it was supposed to begin, and was also wondering why it hadnt been adjusted down in line with adults.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,788 ✭✭✭Benimar


    It's 5 days for anyone with a booster, 10 days without the booster. Very few (if any?) kids have a booster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,316 ✭✭✭Deeec


    My kids are not gone back today as they are close contacts of a positive last week - so they are isolating. Hopefully they will be able to go back on Monday next

    On a positive note I want to praise one of my kids teachers ( primary school ) - She sent a message this morning to all parents listing what she would be covering in school today. She said she will do this every school day for the month of January ( and review it then for Feb) to help kids who are sick or isolating at home. I wasnt expecting this at all and it is truly so helpful. I wasnt a fan of the basic email during lockdowns but in this case I am so grateful of it. It will also encourage parents to follow the rules and keep their kids at home if showing symptoms. For me it takes away the worry that the kids are missing out on their schoolwork while off - we will get all the work covered at home today. I have already decided that I will be giving her a voucher for a meal or takeaway at the end of the month as a thank you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,316 ✭✭✭Deeec


    I think its because most kids are not vaccinated. I agree though it is frustrating - my kids have to isolate longer than my husband who was positive which does seem crazy. The kids are perfectly well showing no symptoms but we have to follow the rules.

    Kids have had to put up with alot over this pandemic



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,156 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    It's complicated and depends on age. The HSE website says

    Children under the age of 13 who are in contact with a confirmed case of COVID 19 in a non-household setting do not need to restrict their movements or get a PCR test unless they are told to by the HSE or they have symptoms of COVID-19. They can attend school, childcare and other activities as normal.

    If over 13 then booster more than 7 days before HSE contact means reduced isolation, as does positive PCR within 3 months.

    It's all here: https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/covid19/contact-tracing/if-your-child-is-a-close-contact/

    My 16 y/o in TY is boosted but still within the first 7 days.

    Kids of age 13, 14, 15 are slightly in limbo since they can't get a booster but also can't avail of the reduced requirements of under 13 y/o.

    If my 13 y/o (who is in JC year) has to miss a couple of weeks of school I won't be impressed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,156 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    So, my kids secondary school has handed back contact tracing to the HSE since the beginning of this academic year.

    In practice, this means that contact tracing has to happen through the parents of a positive PCR testee.

    The question is: even if they have some phone numbers, who in their right mind is going to give out these details to the HSE, knowing the consequence to be that someone's child is going to be asked to miss up to a week and a half of school just because they were in the same class?

    If my child tested positive I would let them (the child) contact other kids in their class, and leave it to the other kids+parents to decide how to handle it. I don't even think I have any of the parent's phone numbers, and even if I did I wouldn't be giving them out without consent.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Zero sense to half of it.

    We took the positive antigen as a "marker".For bureaucratic sake for the neg kids, we counted ten days from their "Day 0 " PCR (even though it was actually Day 4 after the antigen),to get their Day 10 test, just so we could show texts from two dates 10 days apart.In reality their Day 10 test was 13 days after the pos antigen.

    I had to bring the positive child to a doctor at the weekend, and speaking to two doctors, they both counted and referred to the positive antigen as the "first" day.They didn't care about the PCR dates.In reality she had a symptom the day before the positive antigen (diarrheoa) but I guess the antigen is a definitive thing you can point to.

    I am being harassed with texts from the HSE here reminding me of the dates my two negative kids must isolate until.Since I filled out the close contact form late, they are counting 14 days from the date I said there was last contact.So they appear to be using 14 days also.Their calls to me were 7 days too late, so they are totally out of sync with my actual test dates for the kids.

    17 days...I haven't notion.They need to be more consistent with their advice.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Funny now, because in the case of our school, the principal emailed to notify parents of the cases and then the parents of the sick kids followed up on the whatsapp group themselves to say what days what child had tested positive on antigens.When my own child tested positive I told parents myself via the Whatsapp.I was not giving their contact details to the HSE to be harassing them (a week too late most likely) with text messages about testing.They all had access to antigens via the principals emails, and obviously quite a few ordered them.

    It really depends on the circumstances -I mean we had a positive here on a Friday, no test til a Sunday, close contact texts on a Tuesday - they were already 5 days late, and everyone had known since the Friday already, so in that case I just didn't see the need to involve the HSE. Although I fully appreciated not everyone behaves the same .



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭ginoginelli


    Breaking news! Norma Foley has confirmed the implementation of medical grade face masks in schools will be..... kept under review. No rush there minister. 🙄

    Between the contact tracing mess, the blatant lies about transmission and not even providing proper ppe for the teachers, I'm not surprised they cant get staff for this term.

    Shambles



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