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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    There's three houses within a 100m radius at the 'end' of the cul de sac. The first on the left, about ¾ mile up the cul de sac is the one, exactly as described.

    I don't think anyone would expect someone to measure the distance to each front door to measure to the metre or centimetre, which was the furthest from the turn off and therefore 'the end of the cul de sac' in the narrowest, most literal, to the point of absurdity, interpretation.

    At this stage I can only conclude you are being deliberately obtuse as you are not comfortable with the fact that from what we are aware of, this crime is still completely wide open.

    You conveniently haven't addressed whether you would have noticed the driveway and large white gable on the left as you got to the 'end' of the cul de sac.

    As you round the corner around ⅔ way down the cul de sac it's the first house you would see.

    By your reasoning the murderer would drive past the first house on the left, as described, within a metre or two of the house and drive a further 50m or so to get to the second house at the 'end' of the cul de sac before looking for a house on the left. 🙄 or having been told it is on the left you would go right 🙄🙄


    Again I can only conclude you are being deliberately obtuse as you are not comfortable with the fact that the house is easy to find, even by someone not familiar with the area and the implications this has for the investigation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭tibruit


    I`m comfortable with the fact it wasn`t a hit and you`ve conclusively shown that finding the place wouldn`t be simple for a stranger.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    It is very simple to find for anyone who is even approaching average intelligence and is willing to learn.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,682 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    There's three houses within a 100m radius at the 'end' of the cul de sac. The first on the left, about ¾ mile up the cul de sac is the one, exactly as described.
    

    How would a stranger know where the end of the cul de sac was?

    Ah, OK he would continue on till he could go no further, then he'd think " this is the end of the cul de sac,

    I'll have t backtrack , now how many houses have I passed, will it now be the last on the right as I go back?"

    Typical Irish directions " the house you want is about a mile before the bridge."



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    About ¾ mile from the turn off, exactly as described. QED some people just don't want to learn.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,261 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Pre google etc, did you never draw a layout of a location for someone? Or directions?

    This is trivial stuff.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,120 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    It is about as difficult to locate today as it was in 1996, except for the local postman. No road number - the "main " road, that is, let alone Sophie's boreen - no streetview and the name of the townland, Dreenane, is not listed on OS or Google maps.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    2 of Jules daughters corroborated the tree cutting and scratches after, one of whom couldn’t stand Ian. Not to mention the neighbour who made a statement that he witnessed Ian walking back up the road with said tree.

    people that think the scratches/tree/turkeys is untrue are implicating both Jules and her daughters too. There’s no way around it. They have all stuck to the same story for 25 years, despite Bailey not exactly being flavour of the month with any of them.

    now that is a conspiracy.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Understatement of the whole thread right there 👌😆



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    Correct - all that's needed is an identical situation and a person of identical build, age, fitness level and agility as IB. To ensure a reliable result, they would also need to have the same instincts, reflexes, degree of patience, strength level and risk assessment mentality as IB. Otherwise, different decisions will be more during the reenactment.

    Achieving a proper reenactment would need to weigh all the variable factors correctly. Weather conditions need to be considered too, people tend to rush things when uncomfortable. We should not overlook the amount of sunlight or it's direction either. I'm sure there are other considerations that others will be able to add . . .



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  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭PolicemanFox


    It was no more difficult to find in 1996 than it is today. Here is her house is on a map, actually printed in 1996. Most people would not have a dot on a public maps for their house. So in fact very easy to find even for a stranger.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭tibruit


    It would be in the interest of someone who wants to run with the hitman theory to call it all trivial. The first thing you would need to know when you draw a map for someone would be where exactly the house was. Did the husband know this for example? The ex boyfriend had been there three years previously but would he have remembered the exact location? Then you would have to have had the physical act of passing the drawing to a hitman, not to mention locating a hitman in the first place. But sure then maybe there was a sleeper assassin hanging out in Schull who knew all the back roads intimately. Maybe he had his number listed in the Assassin section of the French Golden Pages back in 1996. You seem to be a fan of Jim Sheridan. Do you know if there is a follow up documentary in the works?



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,261 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I'm mainly pointing out that it's trivial to provide the directions and work from them, if you engage your brain. Many people have received training in just such a task e.g. boy scouts, military, rescue volunteers ... and even film location scouts.

    There's lots of holiday homes in the area, how did the people coming from abroad ever find them I wonder? And wouldn't that give good cover for a recon? Hmm.

    Hiring a hitman is non-trivial, for sure. It explains why quite a few people are in prison here and elsewhere for hiring someone to murder their spouse & the people they hired because they hired someone non expert, or left a trail in doing so. From this, we can also conclude that there are occasions when people hire a hitman to murder their spouse and they get away with the murder. So apparently people are capable of hiring other people to commit a murder (or other crime) on their behalf. Now I don't know how they did it, but apparently they do. So no need for nonsense about the French Golden Pages.

    I'm not even pushing the hitman theory, just saying if you're going to dismiss it, or claim the killer had to be someone from the area, I think it needs more than just the house is hard to find.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Well is it a conspiracy though or is it just faulty recall? The tree was cut down on the 22nd and Sophie was murdered that night. If you are making a statement weeks later you need to remember something very specific to help you pinpoint the scratches being visible on the 22nd. So you have the patrons in the pub that night who saw Bailey playing the bodhrán and didn`t see any scratches apart from one who noticed a single scratch on one hand. Someone in the household might have noticed scratches on the 23rd following the murder and asked about them and the reply could have been "I got them cutting down that blasted Christmas tree." Within the household then, the scratches were always associated with the Christmas tree on the 22nd. But that doesn`t necessarily make it true.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭tibruit


    I suspect a lot of foreigners don`t find their holiday homes at the first attempt. It`s no big deal to them once you get there in the end. Kind of important to get it right if you have murder in mind though.

    You are making assumptions about hitmen and spousal murders that you cannot substantiate and I`m not sure it is that common anyway. Catherine Nevin comes to mind but that fell apart fairly quickly. The reason why this murder remains unsolved in my opinion is because there is only one person who knows who the killer is and that`s the killer. Sometimes I wonder if the killer even knows for sure himself that he did it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭PolicemanFox


    Tisdall saw multiple scratches actually, per Nick Foster. They must have been light so only the more observant noticed them. A consultant dermatologist met Bailey on the 28th

    "As a keen observer of people's appearance due to my profession I certainly did not notice any marks or injuries to his face or hands"

    Ronan Collins and Dillon Fairburn stayed in the Prairie on 24th and they didn't notice any scratches on him either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,261 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Right so you accept that people are capable of hiring someone to murder another person. It occurs.

    Nobody said it was common, but that it happens. The people in jail for such crimes is proof - here and elsewhere.

    It is entirely reasonable to conclude some people have gotten away with such crimes. It would be absurd to conclude otherwise.

    Why does it have to be common?

    If you only go with common solutions you will be right more often than wrong but wrong in some significant percentage of cases. This could be one of the uncommon cases.

    If it did turn out to be a hitman, it would be uncommon but not novel in the annals of crime either and would not surprise me.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭tibruit


    "Musician Richard Tisdall told Gardaí that Ian Bailey played the bodhrán with his group that night and he noticed that he had his sleeves rolled up to play the instrument but he saw no marks on his face and only one scratch on his hands, without specifying which hand."

    A 23-year investigation: What next for the Sophie Toscan du Plantier murder case? (irishtimes.com)

    It would be interesting to know which version is correct. Seeing one scratch rather than multiple scratches is saying a very specific thing here if the Times is correct.

    Maybe someone can ask their pal to pull out that statement for us. I won`t name her cos she gets upset.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    You are still making assumptions, apparently without evidence, that it was a male, acting alone without the knowledge of anyone else, either before or after the fact.

    It would be helpful if you could explain the basis for your opinion.

    The problem with this crime is the lack of evidence. Even the time of death is so uncertain that the murderer(s) could have been 100 miles away, even if their only form of transport was by bicycle, within the possible window of uncertainty between the time Sophie was killed and she was found.

    Perhaps advances in forensics will allow the unidentified blood on one of Sophie's shoes or DNA from the stone or block she was struck with to be identified. I don't think it will be solved on current evidence as there doesn't appear to be much.



  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭PolicemanFox


    Barry Roche & Irish Times are wrong.

    Robert Sheehan wrote, quoting the actual statement:

    "Richard Tisdall in his statement 190B recalls seeing scratch marks on one of Bailey’s hands on Sunday night 22 December 1996 (prior to the murder but after the cutting of the tree and the killing of the turkeys)."



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  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭PolicemanFox


    Why do we need "advances in forensics"? They already found male DNA on her boot, which she was wearing when she was murdered! This was over 10 years ago and nobody is talking about this.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It was a Sitka spruce whoever asked.

    Did IB cut off the top and let it fall ? I thought he said he pulled it down through the tree? If he did its a lot different from pulling out a tree from a house.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Did you learn that during one of the video calls you said you have with Bailey* . Or is there a more objective source.?

    Bailey wouldn't be the best person to ask as he hides from difficult questions by changing the subject to his 'poetry'

    *Told me in pm.



  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭PolicemanFox


    Soulwriter, will you stop with the snide remarks? Glossybox has a lot of excellent info.

    Everything he/she said is public domain sources, I can confirm



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭tibruit


    That isn`t quoting the statement. It is paraphrasing which is also what Roche was doing. You would need the statement to decide which version is correct.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Was not snide  she told me in pm she is in contact with IB. Ihave the pms saved

    People are entitled to know that. Info from IB is not objective.

    And it is not your business . if you have an issue with my post report it. That is how it works. So do not correct me call me snide again or i will report it.

    "Everything he/she said is public domain sources, I can confirm'

    With your 27 posts?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No idea what SoulWriter is saying as he's on ignore and it's staying that way.

    His endless harrasment of me is likely what got the thread closed down temporarily tho. Some people never learn hey! 🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭dublin49


    the scratches are a rabbit hole no point going down,they are not relevant because nobody can catergorically dismiss Baileys version so let it go,



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How do you know who is right? Have you the statement?



This discussion has been closed.
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