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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,835 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Seems like the Government are backing away from Michael's claim that boosters will be needed for indoor dining, saying there's no plans for it.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/no-plans-for-booster-vaccine-requirement-for-people-to-dine-indoors-41216379.ht ml



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    TBH the Martin comment looked more like a response to a question from a journalist than policy although his mindset on this would have him very much in favour of it on safety grounds.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,946 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Completely agree that the government need to act. This thing is so prevalent now that having perfectly healthy people isolate because they are close contacts while thousands are walking around oblivious to the fact they have is crazy. It's kinda crazy that they need nphet approval for anything but this is where we are under MM.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,835 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Martin is weak and risk-averse. He's also in an age group that are statistically more vulnerable to Covid and his attitude to it has been shaped by the tragic deaths of 2 of his children


    Per a recent IT article:

    Mr Martin said the experience of losing two children has shaped him as a person and he believes that throughout the pandemic the “number one priority [is] to prevent people from dying”.

    He said the overall aim “to prevent as many people as possible from dying, as many people as possible from becoming severely ill – that has to be still, in the society we live in, the number one metric”.

    Mr Martin said he has noticed language around Covid slipping to “how many deaths can we tolerate” almost, but for him it is still about “preventing death and preventing severe illnesses”.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/taoiseach-speaks-about-how-the-death-of-his-two-children-has-shaped-him-as-a-person-1.4759140


    Now, I have every sympathy for his loss and the impact it had on him and his family. It's not something any parent should have to go through and as a parent myself, I can't imagine the pain.

    But, there's a wider impact on society and families, business and industry, and the economy and future of the country as a whole to consider here. His last comment above highlights why we are still taking a hyper cautious approach to the response, and he's letting his personal loss (albeit understandably) influence the decisions he's making for the country.

    As Taoiseach he needs to consider all of those other elements as well, and it would seem that he can't do this objectively (again understandably), which is why NPHET are making the majority of the decisions largely unchallenged. The obvious issue with that (Tony Holohan himself aside) is that their remit and scope does not include consideration of the wider social, economic and political impact.

    Governments are there to govern, and leaders to lead, but he has completely abdicated that responsibility to Holohan and Co, and because the legacy of Bertie, Enda and Leo has left us with an increasingly divided parliament where FF/FG are more concerned with holding on to their dwindling power than anything else, we effectively have had 2 Governments largely on autopilot, tinkering at the edges, but without making the fundamental changes this country needs.

    With Covid they've jumped on the ability to further kick that can down the road at every stage, regardless of the impact (now and in the future) this will have on the nation and those who live and work here, and who ultimately will be the ones paying for it in both economic and social terms for decades to come.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,081 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    he should recuse himself then, empathy can be toxic if its not balanced

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,195 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    When they say they have no plans for something, they definitely have plans for something.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,835 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    I agree, but unfortunately his only apparent goal as Taoiseach was to not be the FF leader who wasn't, in the same way that Enda was determined to be the only FG Taoiseach to get a second term.

    Both parties are more afraid of SF replacing them entirely (which is likely to happen next time out and will not be pleasant in the aftermath of Covid) and so are more concerned with keeping their seat than anything else.

    It'll be the general public and particularly the "squeezed middle" who will pay for the decisions they're refusing to make now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,946 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    There is also the fact that MM is very likely to retire soon on his mega pension that will never be under threat. He doesn't have to worry about any future repercussions because he'll have a guaranteed pension and some tidy little speaking gigs to keep him ticking over.

    Then we have to consider the fact that he has never been able to make a decision without 10 reports to recommend the recommendations.

    We really ended up with the worst possible person at the helm for some of the more crucial parts of the pandemic. If, as is fairly clear now, nphet are the decision makers of how and when we start to lift restrictions then my original prediction of a March date for the severe restrictions to end may have been extremely optimistic.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 989 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    Just on that - scanning through the news items on the removal of PCR for entry to Ireland I see no mention of NPHET.

    Was this something they were consulted on, or is their opinion of it known?

    Would be heartening if government made that decision all by their selves, though I imagine they ran it by Tony quietly first at least to gauge the risk of possible tweets in opposition to decision.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,946 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    I'm pretty sure Donnelly mentioned that Tony gave that his blessing as well.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,995 ✭✭✭Quags


    My local doesn't ask for a pass so I go in there, defo don't do festivals anyway. God knows what diseases are there 😂

    Majority of people I have spoke to got the vaccine to travel and to feel safe knowing hey could come and go without getting tested which in its self was a shambles as everyone knows you can still transmit it. I didn't get it cause I happily paid for tests to get me around the places I needed but unfortunately it is looking like I may need it for more importantly visiting a parent & less important getting of this island



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,291 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Only a fool would use GDP as a measure of Ireland's economic performance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,976 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Have to agree, I've long thought MM really only interested in seeing out his time as Taoiseach, the internal strife within FF seems to have died down but it wouldn't take much for it to brew up again.

    I see the good cop, bad cop routine working a treat, Government will be seen to get NPHET review, NPHET won't, all part of this never ending silly game.

    I was waiting to see if updated covid certs would be emailed out after midnight as suggested yesterday, nothing yet albeit I've personally only ever looked and used existing one, Once.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    Long live social distancing.... BACK AWAY YOU COVID INFESTED BAG OF BONES & BLOOD 🤣

    Joking aside, the travel ban really messed with me, so I got vaxxed as soon as I was allowed to, and I travelled abroad shortly thereafter. It was like a cloud lifting getting back on a plane for the first time in over a year.

    There was lots of choice last year regarding countries with lax or even no restrictions, but unfortunately that pool is getting smaller by the day it seems, so the barcode will be part of my life for another while by the looks of it 🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭floorpie


    The Independent doesn't seem to understand the convention on human rights

    New EU rules state that from February 1 Covid passes will have a nine-month validity from vaccination, meaning that people will be incentivised to get the booster jab to keep their freedom of travel.

    The EU's position is that the passes exist to facilitate/speed up travel, to uphold our fundamental right to freedom of movement. They don't exist to GIVE us freedom of movement.

    It's interesting to see how different people interpret these measures.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,028 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    In this instance I'd see it as the independent cutting through the bullsh*t (not like them)



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,608 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Sure, we can use GNP as well, what matters is that in comparison to other countries in Europe, Ireland has come through with good economic growth and less impact due to COVID compared to other economies, this puts us in a stronger position for recovery than other countries. Now, we've also been witnessing the economic implosion of a large neighbour through this, making performance even more impressive.

    Either way, whatever worry you have for Ireland's debt due to COVID is a much bigger worry for nearly every other country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 371 ✭✭bluedex


    People will just stop reporting their positive antigen and not a get a PCR.

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,625 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    As I have done. I tested positive on an antigen test and never bothered with a PCR, what's the point the antigen was positive, I had the symptoms so I just did the isolation. No need for a PCR.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    I'm not one who views his personal loss as being a strong influence on this. I don't doubt it has come to the forefront of his mind, just as rest of the population has had a lot of time to reflect and think about things.

    His problem is and always has been his political performance. If you look back over his track record he really hasn't achieved very much at all and the smoking ban is all he delivered in Health. During the crisis of 2008-2014 he managed to hide away in the DFA, generally a fairly handy number. By all accounts he's a very nice man and is not one you want to go up against in debate but that's really the extent of it. Even so it's not entirely his own fault, as the talent surrounding him in the party is pretty average and this coalition arrangement has made him look just a little better by having access to what's in the other two parties.

    He is as you say a ditherer and very risk-averse. Each of our previous Taoisigh had something going for them. Bertie had street smarts, Cowan was scrappy, Kenny earnest, well-meaning but tough and Leo is more of a crowd pleaser but can get things done.   



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭floorpie


    Perhaps, but if this is how they conceive of covid passes then they should instead be talking about how our fundamental human rights are being undermined by them. That's what's interesting to me here, them blithely relaying their conception that boosters give us human rights.



  • Registered Users Posts: 371 ✭✭bluedex


    Exactly. A lot of people will just view going for a PCR as an added hassle, especially if it means they can't get boosted. There's no real incentive unless you need PCR validation for benefits etc..

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Well, the original idea, agreed at EU level, was only for travel until the French got the idea they could "piss off" the unvaccinated as a policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,625 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    There is also the problem that you can't get a PCR test. I understand that some people may need a PCR test to get a covid cert, for work or for hospital/GP appointments but anyone that doesn't need a PCR test for those reasons really shouldn't be getting one, if the antigen is positive just do the isolation and leave the PCR testing to people that really need it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,625 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    I often wonder would Martin have even made leader of FF if they weren't destroyed by the collapse in 2008/09. He never struck me as the leadership type because of his dithering. He is also the person responsible for setting up the HSE and is responsible of the state of the HSE is in now, if he had've been stronger and stood up to the Unions at the time we may have had a better more functioning Health Service than we do now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,368 ✭✭✭User1998


    Some appropriate adds from Boards while we are discussing mice😂




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There are no plans for it, until there's a plan for it..

    "Well, we're relaxing restrictions and letting the pubs open until 11.30 for a few months, but the one compromise we'll need will be the passports..it's for the good of people's health lads.."



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,835 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Look up an app called AdGuard if on Android. Thank me later 😊



  • Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭darem93


    The problem with Micheal Martin is that he is genuinely an extremely weak leader. There is no backbone there, no desire to change things and take a risk sometimes.

    He would far rather hide behind NPHET and take the cautious approach as it deflects blame off him and makes life easier.

    He is the definition of someone who wanted the top job for his own personal benefits without any of the responsibilities that actually come with that role.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,870 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    He’s a weak leader of a weak party with absolutely no talent coming through.

    And those of us looking to get on with our lives are paying the price for that.



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