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Schools and Covid 19 (part 5) **Mod warnings in OP**

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 150 ✭✭Teacher2020


    Unions aren't there to fight for the needs of the children. They are there to fight for the pay and working conditions of teachers. We pay them 400 euro a year each for the privilege. The national parents Council are there to represent parents and children. Yes the teaching unions aren't popular but thats only because they tend to be stronger than the other unions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭orecir


    Never seen morale as low as today in my school. The coldness of the building and the amount of staff absences was tough going.


    We had about 50% student attendance out of a school of 800 pupils.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,506 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    HEPAs are scientifically proven . Órla Hegarty isn’t a “ ding bat “ she has verified qualifications , unlike many random Covid “ internet experts .”

    I bought a HEPA for my own room as I’m very high risk ( despite Medmark saying I’m not , because I can stay behind a screen ( erm, airborne?) and enforce 2m SD ( again , in my room as an SET, even if there was the space to be 2 m back from children, you can’t SD from the children )



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Well put it this way -it can't hurt to have HEPA filters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,625 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Opening windows is a guideline.


    Its not the law.

    Sometimes in life its OK to use a bit of common sense.


    Close the windows next week. Kids are freezing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,689 ✭✭✭notAMember


    oh I don’t know… I think it has a few disadvantages.

    It gives a false sense of security

    it wastes energy

    it wastes the earths resources to create them

    it costs money to buy

    it needs maintenance

    it takes up space

    it is destined for landfill


    But I get ya, no more than all the other pointless unused things that are bought, left in a corner and later binned. Just the destruction of the environment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,457 ✭✭✭lee_baby_simms


    Orla Hegarty has absolutely no relevant qualifications with respect to infectious diseases, immunology or epidemiology.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    If that is what we are measuring by, I think HEPA filters are the least of our problems.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,689 ✭✭✭notAMember




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  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭JP100


    Just pick a day while you're at it! Say Wednesday, the virus doesn't like Wednesdays!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,485 ✭✭✭harr


    I am torn , I want my child in school he has missed so much and he needs the extra help he does an extra class to help him along . Home schooling was not great in my house as I have a special needs child as well .. so home school was a nightmare.

    He had been well all over Christmas and thank god covid hasn’t hit us yet , but just two days into the new school term and he is chesty and runny noise , he has asthma so he gets infections very easily.

    He rarely complains but he was frozen in school yesterday and his teacher said it barely got about 7 in the classroom .. because he now had symptoms of covid it’s back to antigen tests but I know it’s only a heavy cold and his asthma

    I honestly don’t think I can bring myself to send him in on Monday . He wants to be in school with his mates so bad



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    harr - is your child primary or secondary? What kind of extra help? If I can help you with anything, I will, if that makes your decision any easier. I am an English teacher and I've lots of SEN experience



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,485 ✭✭✭harr


    Hi , thanks so much , he is in primary school and just at the moment gets an extra hour a day one on one to help with his math and English. The school in fairness have been excellent and his teacher has set additional home work for him and has adjusted his home schooling work if needed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭orecir


    Fair play to Sinn Fein calling for another year of predicted grades for the current 6th years.


    The minister needs to announce this asap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,077 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    It is totally incorrect for him to do so. If predicted grades are announced too early, too many students opt for them and give up working. This will effect them at third level. In the end it is the disadvantaged child that will lose in the long term

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭deiseindublin


    Wasn't announced for another 7+ weeks in 2021. I can't see us not having AG this year, but hopefully there will still be exams as there were last year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 529 ✭✭✭snor


    AG and exams by far the fairest option. I have 6th years this year who have never sat a state exam or even mocks. They have missed So much in person school last year. This year, the student absenteeism rate is hugh with many teachers absent also. Fear now is some will be absent for orals, mocks etc. a very stressful time for these young people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    If there is anything I can do, I will, so please PM if there is anything you ever need or are unsure of. I really don't mind. I'm glad to hear that the school have been good to you and to him. I'm not a primary teacher but if I can help in any way would only be too happy to.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,506 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    If we are talking about wasting energy etc. heating is full on for most of the day with windows and doors full open . And who will have to make up the funding shortfall once again( hint : Not the DES)



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,506 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    And Luke O’ Neill has no qualifications in the area of ventilation but seems to be trotted out as a media darling .



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,689 ✭✭✭notAMember


    Yes, seems completely pointless as well. Why don’t the teachers just turn off the heating? I send my lot in with blankets and hot water bottles. Eventually got the teacher to agree to fingerless gloves for writing, and letting them keep their coats on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭orecir


    Sounds like Soviet era Russia.


    Grim what our children and teachers are going through in 2022. Shame on Norma Foley and the DES.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,689 ✭✭✭notAMember


    Well its 9 or 10 degrees around here at the moment, not quite soviet levels, but yes I wouldn’t like to be sitting down for it.


    what happened to the CO2 monitors in classes btw? They were supposed to be used to show when the windows needed to be opened. Another thing bought, left in a corner and ignored?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,517 ✭✭✭KildareP


    Most schools did not get one for every classroom.

    I have heard several cases where if the windows are closed the monitors will go into red within a matter of minutes and will remain there until windows are reopened again. So in many ways, yes they are mostly now ignored, because you either just accept your windows are permanently open come what may or you close your eyes and quietly unplug the CO2 monitor forevermore...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    What's needed in heating upgrades, install IR heat panels on the celling, they heat the objects in the room aka the kids and not the air. You can have the windows open and still be warm



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Can anyone say how much the open windows reduce the spread by in situations where there is a positive case in the class? What difference do HEPA filters make? Would it be 20%? More or less?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,638 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    It might be time to consider radical change to the school year. Open for another month in the summer, and close in January. That would solve part of the heating problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,689 ✭✭✭notAMember


    I'm optimistic there won't be another January of open windows and masks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 631 ✭✭✭poppers


    Suprrise Surprise the TUI and ASTI coming out against it as per irish times today. I'd say their main problem is if it used again the goverment would find it easier to reform the exams process and introduce a continous assessment model and scrap the traditional leaving cert all together.



  • Registered Users Posts: 529 ✭✭✭snor


    Gosh. I can’t understand how they can be against it seeing the stress the students are under. I am a member of the TUI and they haven’t consulted me in it!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭History Queen


    I'm against it too, at least in last year's guise anyway. I've the course finished in one of my subjects and will be finished next week in the other. I understand not all subjects will be the same but the changes made to mine are more than adequate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,921 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/no-justification-for-hybrid-leving-cert-exams-this-year-say-teachers-unions-1.4772913

    The standardisation process used for predicted grades over the past two years requires junior cycle data, however due to the pandemic, some of the current leaving cert students did not sit those exams.

    “Advocates for a repeat of the emergency methods are therefore advocating for something that is either impossible or else will be radically changed and involve historical school data that would be hugely unfair for many students,” the TUI added.

    Roisin Shortall was making the same point at the weekend so it's not just the unions

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/students-seek-more-choice-in-leaving-cert-exams-given-disruption-1.4772392



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,077 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Stress is a part of life. From the day we are born we have to cope with stress. The actual event of bring born is one of the most stressful that happens to us. We go from a warm environment where all our needs are met to where we need to start to fend for ourselves by sucking a nipple.

    This idea that stress is all evil is not a reflection on life

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,218 ✭✭✭✭josip


    "We go from a warm environment where all our needs are met to where we need to start to fend for ourselves by sucking a nipple."

    Doesn't sound sooo stressful...



  • Registered Users Posts: 593 ✭✭✭mullinr2


    It has started already in my sons class, he is in second class. A few of the kids has had the vaccine and are now saying that they are going to create a vaccine only group, plus are going around saying you have to get the vaccine. Is this what people want? Those who are pushing the vaccine for u12s. I will be speaking to the school principal tomorrow. This is completely unacceptable



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,077 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,784 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    I'd be against predicted grades this year as well.

    Can only speak for my subjects but the changes to papers mean my groups could sit the paper now.

    Predicted has broken the CAO college application system. 625 not enough to get some courses. Others getting nearly 100 pts more than they would have gotten and ending up on courses they possibly won't be able for

    The exam system isnt fair but its better than the free-for-all we've had the last 2 years.

    Post edited by jimmytwotimes 2013 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 6 ainebell


    Completely agree with the point you have made, my son is in LC , points will go up, students will not get the courses they want, last year a lot of courses went to random selection , it's not ideal, but an exam is better that predicted grades



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭airy fairy


    I've a LC kid. Busting arse to do well. But is very nervous of impending dates for certain projects in case she's deemed a close contact, or indeed gets Covid. Or if she gets it in June.

    6 teachers from 6 subjects missing today. No online alternative. So it's a study class when courses haven't been completed yet.

    The anxiety of needing 600 points for a course that only required 520 or less the year before last is real, no idea if they'll drop to '20 points or not, I suspect not.

    I understand that some kids will only take the foot off if PG are brought in now. But surely a blend of PG and marks for exam taken in June might help?

    I wonder will points drop to 2020 leveks? I had a LC in 20 too, and while the marking went blaa for some, at least points remained stagnant.

    No idea of a solution, but I do believe continuity of the course is not happening, be it teacher or student that is absent due to a close contact or has Covid, it indeed long Covid. It's not level at all this year.



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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,506 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Genuine question: what do you want the principal to do?



  • Registered Users Posts: 508 ✭✭✭dickdasr1234


    Surely there wouldn't be any spread to reduce if there wasn't a positive case in class?



  • Registered Users Posts: 20 Dublenguy


    Like that idea. So much more caused by COVID fear and restrictions than COVID looks like causing into mid year. Please God they will shut the windows. My Dad went to school with no shoes but it’s a no brainier to say he was happier.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20 Dublenguy


    What impresses me about Norma Foley is that she is so out of her depth and we can still hear her. I have a BSc, not an expert but don’t see good data for open windows.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Right, but we have no way of knowing if there is an asymptomatic case in the class, unless we were to PCR test the class regularly. So, we have windows open and schools want HEPA filters. It was a genuine question by the way. I am not in a work environment like that so haven't been part of conversations around it. I presume the DES/schools/NPHET have made an estimate of how much the reduce the spread by? There is a cost to having the windows open in terms of the comfort of those in the room and obviously the financial cost of the filters. What are the expected benefits exactly?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,156 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Not every decision requires a double blind scientific study.

    Open windows increase the number of air changes, therefore reducing the concentration of airborne droplets. Masks reduce large droplet spread.

    This doesn't require a masters in fluid dynamics.



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Assuming it's primary, I'd probably have a word with the teacher to keep an eye on that.Doesn't matter that it's vaccine related, fact is if they are ganging up on one another, that needs to stop.It could be branded shoes, phones, a type of school bag, anything, I still don't think it is acceptable.

    When I read that post, I was strongly reminded of a cartoon which I cannot find now, of two children, one screaming into the face of the other, and the mother of screamer is standing behind him -her tongue extends down to him and is also his tongue.They are most likely saying what they are hearing at home and that should be nipped in the bud in school, at the very least.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭SusanC10


    Agree that you should start with the Class Teacher.

    When our daughter (6th) went back to school last September, she had just got Dose #1. Very few of her Class had at that point. Another girl in the Class went around asking the kids aged 12 (the Birthdays are on a chart on the wall) if they had been vaccinated and really pushing that everyone should be asap.

    The Teacher knocked it on the head quite quickly and had a chat with the Class on personal choice etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Who exactly is "pushing" the vaccine for under 12's? It is available if you want it for your kids, but you don't have to give them it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Points are based on supply and demand. If predicted grades don't happen there'll be no grade inflation, therefore points will drop that had been artificially inflated.


    There have been significant changes made to courses this year. Is your child aware of how much less needs to be covered? Students aren't the best barometer of how much work needs to be done as they aren't aware of things teachers know such as sections that can double up yo answr two parts of the paper or sections that can be cut out entirely. I have finished the course in one of my subjects and will be finished next week in the other. Normally I don't finish until Easter.

    My students are looking for predicted grades but couldn't articulate why when I pointed out that course wise, they are at no disadvantage to previous cohorts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭Marty Bird


    I'd definitely talk to the teacher first, children should not be asking the health status of other children it’s bizarre and needs to stop if its happening.

    🌞6.02kWp⚡️3.01kWp South/East⚡️3.01kWp West



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