The vaccine

houseyhouse · 03-01-2022 8:24pm #1

Registration for vaccines opened today. Are you going to get your 5-12 year olds vaxxed?

Personally, I’m torn. I’m not anti-vax in general. My kids have had all the normal vaccines and the flu vaccine the last couple of years. I’m double vaxxed and boosted against Covid myself. But… I think we’re vaccinating kids against Covid for adults’ sake rather than kids’ sake and I think the threshold for proof that the vaccine won’t cause long-term side effects needs to be higher in that situation. I hadn’t even considered not vaccinating them until I met a woman whose son got narcolepsy from the Swine flu vaccine and now I’m not sure. Would be interested to hear other parents’ thought process on this.

04-01-2022 12:09pm

My two kids (age 3 and 5) were vaccinated in the UAE last September. I had no qualms whatever. They suffered no side effects or discomfort.

Ethereal Cereal · 04-01-2022 12:54pm

1/18,400 percentage of population reported Narcolepsy as a side effect to the Swine flu vaccine. The benefits of that vaccination still way, way, way, outweigh the risk of vaccinations.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28847694/#:~:text=During%20the%20first%20year%20after,1%20per%2018%2C400%20vaccine%20doses.

Also, that was a swine flu vaccine, its not applicable here.

Nearly 4 billion people have been vaccinated against covid, without any reported side effects. What sample size are you looking for? Your not vaccinating kids for adults sake, your vaccinating everyone to put an end to this pandemic. Then schools, businesses, etc, can reopen and stay open without recurring annual variants. That's how vaccinations work, its how the ebola, polio, MMR, etc, vaccinations worked previously.

Supercell · 04-01-2022 12:57pm

I was nervous about it before but as time went by and billions of people have now been vaccinated I've changed my mind.

All three of ours are registered and will get the jab when their turn comes.

notAMember · 04-01-2022 1:31pm

All of mine are now registered. Looking forward all sorts of things as a result

that worry of them getting covid or the associated potential long term effects of it will be reduced
if there is good uptake, should reduce the chance that schools will close at a moments notice, throwing their education into the toilet for another period of time.
Travel will open up for them without PCR. Looking forward to bringing them to see family we have missed for years now.

The vaccine has been given to billions of people for over a year, side effects would be visible by now. Greatest risk of side effects is in the first ten minutes, risk diminishes over time.

notAMember · 04-01-2022 1:50pm

One other thing, on narcolepsy link with swine flu vaccine, that is still not well understood, it's still being studied to this day.

It's really unclear twelve years on if that was the vaccine, swine flu itself, or something else completely, I think there was a possible link with a parallel strain of streptococcal infection going around at the time.... A similar spike in narcolepsy cases was seen in taiwan and china, where they didn't vaccinate for h1n1 at all. Higher numbers of narcolepsy were detected in people who had suffered from swine flu, than in the vaccinated population. And countries where there was an outbreak before there was a vaccine program seem to have higher numbers again, something like a two-hit combination causing a stronger immune response? So while it could be a version of a vaccine contributing, it's not really clear what the cause or the mechanism was. Also, naturally occurring narcolepsy usually goes undiagnosed for a long time, but there was huge media attention on it at the time, which may have caused some uptick in diagnoses. It's so cloudy.

coffeyt · 04-01-2022 2:09pm

I'm trying to check with my gp but in the meantime I have a query someone here more knowledgeable than me may be able to answer.

I have registered my children and had always planned for them to get the vaccine when the time came. I know that they have stated that you should not get the vaccine within 4 weeks of having covid.

now as far as I am aware neither of my children have had covid to date and anytime I was concerned 're contacts I have been checking with antigen tests BUT as children are very often asymptomatic how can I be 100% they haven't had covid in the last month?

does anyone know why the advise is in place 're the 4 weeks and what are the implications if they have had covid recently and then receive the vaccine?

houseyhouse · 05-01-2022 12:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415227#Comment_118415227

Do you have children? I posted here because I want to hear from other parents about how they made the decision for their own kids.

I’ve read plenty about the science. There are serious known side effects of the vaccine though they are very rare (and yes, I know this is true for most vaccines). Though narcolepsy is not likely to be an issue because the feature of the swine flu vaccine that has been linked to narcolepsy is not a feature of the Covid vaccine. I brought that up because it was meeting a mother who’s child’s life was upended by narcolepsy that made think again about vaccinating my own kids against Covid.

I do believe we’re vaccinating kids to protect adults, the economy etc., i.e. not *primarily* to protect children’s own health. I’m not actually opposed to vaccinating children to ‘end the pandemic’ as you put it, but I do think it changes the cost/benefit analysis, for want of a better phrase.

houseyhouse · 05-01-2022 12:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414976#Comment_118414976

That’s helpful, thank you. I didn’t realise children that young were being vaccinated anywhere. Did they use the regular child dose?

houseyhouse · 05-01-2022 12:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415459#Comment_118415459

Thank you. There are lots of benefits, I know. Our youngest will still not be vaccinated so we’ll still have some of these worries. The greatest advantage to me is that we’ll be protecting their local grandparent, who they love and see regularly.

xzanti · 05-01-2022 12:44pm

I'm also not an "anti vaxxer". My children received all of their childhood vaccines, boosters etc and we sought out and paid out of our own pockets €350.00 for two doses of the Meningitis B vaccine for our eldest as it wasn't included in his infant schedule.

We are declining this particular vaccine for now.

Our reasons are our own and I have no interest in debating the issue with anyone.

But that is our answer. No.

Chips Lovell · 05-01-2022 12:50pm

Lots of pros, no cons from what I can see. My kids have missed out on a lot of pre-school, spent long periods of time not being able to see grandparents or other family members, play with other kids, have birthday parties, or go on holidays. Sooner we get this pandemic under control the better or half their childhood will be gone.

XsApollo · 05-01-2022 1:02pm

Bit too early in my opinion to be giving it to developing children.

they have every other vaccine they were supposed to get.

it’s too early in my own opinion so will be holding off.

05-01-2022 1:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420438#Comment_118420438

I don't know what dose was administered as I never check this detail for any vaccine. They received the Sinopharm vaccine in two doses. If Pfizer had been available, I would have given them that. On purely selfish grounds, we decided to vaccinate our children because:

We want to reduce the risk of COVID entering our home
We want to reduce the risk of COVID negatively affecting the kids, if they were to catch it
We want to reduce the risk of the kids bringing home a COVID infection that could kill or debilitate my wife or myself, thereby reducing the risk that the kids would end up motherless or fatherless
We want to reduce the risk of school closure, which when it happens is highly inconvenient and educationally sub-optimal

The wider utilitarian grounds are well understood and these were factors also: reduce risk of variants, end the pandemic, etc. etc.

To be honest it didn't cost us a thought and we did it with no apprehension, having seen that many millions to billions have taken this and other covid vaccines in the year before we gave it to our kids.

As an aside, we are not a household that has operated in great fear of covid. We travelled abroad for holidays twice during the pandemic, eat out regularly, have gone to the cinema, etc., all throughout 2021 and the second half of 2020. So our decision to take the vaccine was not done because Saint Tony or his UAE counterpart said we should do so; it was done because we as parents don't fear vaccines and never have. We strike a balance between living life as normally as possible while utilizing whatever tools happen to be available to minimze risk - vitamin D, hand sanitizer, avoiding crowded places, vaccinating, etc.

Pawwed Rig · 05-01-2022 1:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415227#Comment_118415227

That is not true. Many people have side effects. They are listed in the literature you get when you are getting vaccinated. Anything from fatigue, unwellness to bells palsy are known side effects.

Not to say the vaccine is not worth getting but people should be aware that side effects will happen in a percentage of those vaccinated.

I am torn on the issue aswell but will probably end up getting it as there is one of my child's friends who is high risk and has a heart condition.

Princess Calla · 05-01-2022 2:21pm

I'm torn as well. All other vaccinations are up to date.

We have been extremely cautious as the eldest has asthma and has had a few stints in hospital when they were a toddler. Thankfully that seems to be behind us.

However for the last two years all I've heard is "kids get a mild dose" , "schools are safe" etc so I'm failing to see the urgency in getting the vaccine. Also is it going to be a case that they will need a booster every x amount of months?

Unless they bring in measures where you need a covid vaccine cert to get into kid places for birthday parties etc I'll be holding out as long as possible.

Pawwed Rig · 05-01-2022 2:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118421070#Comment_118421070

I don't think anyone believes the 'schools are safe' line anymore. It does not make an ounce of sense. I have continued to send mine to school on the basis that if they get it and we get it we will most likely be ok. Luckily (if you can call having dead parents luck) we have no elderly or vulnerable people we need to worry about.

I would not judge anyone on their decision in this case (other than the obvious loons).

Princess Calla · 05-01-2022 2:40pm

Oh I never believed "schools are safe" I accepted it as a necessary risk.

The point I was making was not to push vaccinations on parents after 2 yrs of "children get mild symptoms" sure "the schools are safe", mantra.

We have one elderly grandparent who can't sit still so is more a risk to us than us to her 🤣🤣 but even if we vaccinated the eldest the youngest is too young so we'd still need to maintain distancing measures.

It's a tough choice for parents as all you want to do is protect your child as best you can.

Part of me is also wondering if they are better off getting this variant and building up their own natural immunity.

houseyhouse · 05-01-2022 2:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118421175#Comment_118421175

It seems to me that a lot of kids will get this variant either way. I know so many people who are boosted but still caught it.

Princess Calla · 05-01-2022 4:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118421255#Comment_118421255

Well that's just it.

The whole idea of the vaccine is to limit the impact of a virus on the host.

The original virus didn't seem to impact on the majority of children, of course there are outliers. Now this variant seems alot weaker, even if it's much more transmissible. So what impact will the vaccine have on an already weak variant of a virus that doesn't appear to impact on children to begin with?

The reward of the vaccine isn't outweighing the risks at all, in my mind anyway.

notAMember · 06-01-2022 4:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118421836#Comment_118421836

You’ve said your child has asthma though… one of the risk factors for severe disease. I am reading from what you’ve said , that you think catching the wild virus ( now, or in an unknown future variant) is lower risk than getting the vaccine in a controlled environment. Isn’t the risk is the other way around?

That being said, i actually don’t think it’s either /or. All the exposure they can get is most likely good for immunity long term. This thing has been around since 2019 and is still making its presence felt in 2022, continuing to mutate. It will likely still be knocking about in some new form every for the next decade at least, when our children are adults, maybe for the rest of their lives. There will be probably be parts of the world where delta or omicron flourish in pockets of population. Every layer of protection I can give them now will count towards future safety throughout their lives, making sure they have some defence no matter what part of the world they go to, or who they meet. Vaccines will change over time, I’ll get them this one, and every other one that comes along when it’s available to cover as many defence points as we can.

06-01-2022 6:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118424917#Comment_118424917

People's intuitions around risk are often very poor. For example, I know a couple with an only child. Whenever the parents fly, they fly separately, in case a single plane were to crash and kill them both. They think flying in separate planes cuts the risk in half. But it actually doubles the risk that at least one of them will die, which ends up being probabilistically more likely than a single plane crash killing both of them.

Bobeagleburger · 06-01-2022 6:40am

A lot of kids will have picked up covid over the past few weeks, or will do when schools open. Having some natural immunity will probably make the choice easier for a lot of parents.

Bobeagleburger · 06-01-2022 6:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118424946#Comment_118424946

That's the most bizzare thing I've heard in a while. Hyper anxious people by the sounds of it.

notAMember · 06-01-2022 7:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118424950#Comment_118424950

hmmm, not sure though, if anything it complicates the decision, or gives a false sense of security.

The viral load from picking it up is different for everyone. And the immune response is different.

fits · 06-01-2022 7:59am

Mine are registered. They are vaccinated for everything they can be including flu and chicken pox. Covid is a novel virus and long covid and MIS are risks so I’m vaccinating them for their own health.

Bobeagleburger · 06-01-2022 8:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118424957#Comment_118424957

What I mean is, if kids get covid the parents may choose not to vaccinate them (this time around).

notAMember · 06-01-2022 9:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118425056#Comment_118425056

Yes, that's what I meant by the false sense of security.

Immunity is complicated, you've already got the wild card of your own immune response, your body. You can control the exposure to a dose strong enough to create an immune response in most people with a vaccine. By relying on having tested positive for covid, you make that "dose" a wild card as well.

Could be hit and miss.

El Gato De Negocios · 08-01-2022 11:45am

We have 2 kids and the eldest will be 5 in April. Neither will be vaccinated. My wife and I are both double jabbed and my wife has registered for her booster. The reason we aren't getting the kids done is that we feel it's totally unnecessary. We all had the rona in December 2020 and none of us had any significant ill effects, the vaccination does not curtail transmission so considering that and the fact they both had v1 of the rona, getting them jabbed is an unrequired trauma. They've had all their other vaccinations but won't be getting this.

Pawwed Rig · 08-01-2022 1:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118438166#Comment_118438166

This link hints at curtailing transmission without being specific. It also seems to indicate that there is no reason for isolation if they get covid after vaccination which I assume is incorrect

They do not seem to be pushing it onto children though

https://www2.hse.ie/screening-and-vaccinations/covid-19-vaccine/get-the-vaccine/covid-19-vaccination-for-children/

for example

Children who are vaccinated will be less likely to miss school and other activities because of being ill with COVID-19.

I don't see how as if they have covid they will have to isolate regardless of vaccination status.

airy fairy · 08-01-2022 1:38pm

My youngest was just 12 a few months ago and got the vaccine as soon as it was available. At the time it was the adult size dose. No side effects but we did have duvet day as a just in case 😉

I debated a lot with it. I have a medically high risk older child who was the first in the family to get the vaccine way back and I didn't bat an eyelid, such is the fear of that child getting sick if Covid came along.

I was in a damned if I did, damned if I didn't.

Anyway, I left the child get it, with a heavy heart. But now months later, glad I did it. With the reinfection abilities of omicron, and wanting the child to have a regular child activities, the roulette of having an immune system hit more than once with it, helps with knowing I did the right thing at the time.

The vaccine

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