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Minimum Alcohol pricing to be signed into Law

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,679 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly



    And quite a few people I've spoken to have no desire to go back to the pub after the past few years - rather have a few drinks at home and save a fortune, the habit of going out for a few beers in the local has gone



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    The lack of actions or protests trying to reverse MUP isn't even a half credible argument in favour of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,111 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    None of that happens though when you intoduce prohibition type laws like this and doff your cap to vintners who seem have to be the arbiters of proper consumption despite being the source of the majority of violent incidents and late night issues.

    The mature conversation is to normalise consumption. Open up licensing to cafes and to breweries so that a person can have half a beer or glass of wine with lunch. Or that closing hours aren't limited to X o clock where people dump out on to the street together.

    The zealots are what I like to commonly refer to as muppets, they have the unhealthy relationship with a substance which has been around 7000 BCE. These types seem to believe that increasing control and prohibition is the way to go. When we have various examples of the opposite. The US prohibition era and the war on drugs. That's not healthy that's absolutely baseless non scientific action with a strong pungent smell of Catholic guilt wafting off of it. Iona your heart out.


    If we want to increase alcohol awareness and treat it in the manner it should be treated then we do the opposite of MUP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    Already looked. The 8.99 wines are still 8.99, the 9.99 are still 9.99, the €25 whiskey is still €25. Even the €14 8 can Guinness pack is still €14 and the single can Guinness is still 1.99

    Some prices have changed by a few cents compared to their Oct prices.

    Or maybe you are doing what some people are doing and comparing prices to the Christmas offers which are now finished and would have changed with or without mup, just as they did last year



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Never said it was and its a bizarre leap to try say it is

    My point was, for all the belly-aching going on in this thread, the fact that there is barely a peep among the populace indicates that its really not a big deal



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    What happened to the €5 to €6 wines?

    What happened to the own brand spirits?

    What happened to the beers in Lidl and Aldi?

    What happened to the case of 24 Guinness?

    Don't bother answering, we all know they went up due to MUP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    So why did you bring up the lack of actions and protests?

    There is no belly aching just people who resent the fraud that MUP is and want to talk about it.

    Have a listen to Liveline today and you will hear a few home truths from ordinary people.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Because some people stated that "the country is up in arms", its not and that "there will be hell to pay", there won't



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭PCeeeee


    No offense Tod but none of this bar the 'what time did it finish' sounds like anything relatable.

    Perhaps instead of telling us what we need to do in relation to alcohol you should take a good hard look at the people you're socialising with.

    And frankly if you're drinking till your'on your ear' you need to be looking at yourself before preaching to the rest of us.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,550 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    It's almost as if the level of MUP was chosen so it wouldn't affect the major brands and would only affect the generic alternatives that provided competition to them.

    The stated aim was to reduce consumption, but nothing has changed for those who drink in pubs or buy brand name products.

    Here's the Guinness Index if anyone wants to see how the publican's have priced a pint at around 1/150th of an average industrial weeks wage since 1973.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,748 ✭✭✭Phil.x




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,302 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Mate if the government introduced a 80% flat income tax on everyone's income in this little country I'd say people would just grumble clinch their teeth and take it.

    Was in aldi this evening. Lots of complaining and shock in the drinks section.

    Its doubled in price I heard one woman moaning to another.

    People on phone explaining prices to others.

    Kinda funny really.

    Loads didnt know it was in the pipeline at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,426 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Not Relatable ?

    Have a read of this thread, it's very short. And not uncommon.

    And when I say I'm out on my ear after 4 pints, that does not mean I always have 4 pints, I usually don't go beyond 2.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    People are annoyed and upset at being led by the nose by all political parties in the introduction of MUP.

    They may not be out in the street with torches and rifles but trust in politicians such as it was has been damaged.

    There may yet be "hell to pay".



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭PCeeeee


    When I said not relatable I meant to myself. The circles I move in. I don't doubt you that there are people with this kind of behaviour. In my experience they're a minority.

    To return to the point of the thread I see no reason why we all should be saddled with MUP. Personal responsibility is a great thing. Just as yourself. You know your limit and you stick to it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭MBE220d


    Its another tax, plain and simple, anyone that can't see that deserve the politician's we have.

    Why now introduce a minimum price on takeaways and the likes of McDonald's if the the are so concerned about people's health,

    Have the closed the dail bar out of interest, not likely.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Why is there a undercurrent in this country that literally wants to see us having the most expensive everything that can be sold.

    Were rode up a stick via stealth taxes and get SFA back in return for it.

    We now have MUP on top of one of the highest rates of alcohol taxes in Europe

    Cigarettes the same - so much that the black market is thriving

    We have exorbitant excise duties on road fuels and we're adding carbon taxes to bate Banagher every year here too.

    Our primary public services are in tatters. So, where the fook is all this dosh going? Someone is pocketing big time and giving back bollox all in return.

    We need a reform of everything in this country. A government should be only raising taxes to fund the minimum amount of services, but those fewer services need to be world class. We currently have our public purse pie cut into too many small slices with too many snouts looking for a piece.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Don't take my word for it.

    This is a quote from a letter to the Irish Times today -

    "If the breeding ground of policymaking continues like this, where a concoction of quangos, interest groups and civil servants magic up new ways of making life more difficult and expensive for ordinary people, this Coalition faces annihilation at the ballot box."

    The author?

    Art O'Mahony President of Young Fine Gael

    link to all today's letters - https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/the-price-of-alcohol-1.4770423



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The MUP is not going to the central exchequer. There will be an increase in the amount of VAT collected per purchase, sure, but as the volumes purchased will be lower it will cancel out.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    It doesn't really matter where it's going, it's coming out of the pockets of already hard pressed consumers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Your arguments are getting more and more threadbare.

    Enforced abstinence should not be considered as an option in any democracy.

    Try addressing the facts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    Ah come on, you think people will believe that utter bullsh1t that there were auld ones ringing around moaning on their phones, others explaining to people and more general moaning.

    Aldi drink sections are tiny. Seems in your Aldi that they were squeezed in like effin sardines.


    Stop the bullsh1t



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    You are forgetting that we have the highest unemployment benefits in Europe, one of the highest children's allowance in Europe, one of the highest statutory pension payments in Europe and we also have one of the lowest tax rates for those earning under €35,000 a year in Europe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    News for you.

    While children's allowance is a universal payment anyone who finds themselves unemployed and has to meet their bills from the JSA needs every penny of it.

    Under 35k a year is low pay in this economy.

    Furthermore the basic state pension is not the gateway to shangri la.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,302 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Yea all made up. Completely. Haha now I know what I'm dealing with on this thread. Jesus. It could never happen. 2 of front of me and 2 behind me so cramped. Maybe we should make the drink section smaller so this wont happen. 😄



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    I never said it was not deserved or too much.

    I think we have a very good social welfare system and it could be better.

    But it was in response to a poster saying that it's take take take. I just was showing that the in money does get spent in vital areas.


    We don't want to go the British route where people can't afford tampons because the social welfare payment is so low and it puts them into a spiral of debt that is near impossible to get out of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    You said "lots of complaining"

    "People on the phone" - that's plural.

    Others talking to each other.


    Now you say it was just 4 people. I think you wildly exaggerated what you saw.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,302 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Two women moaning to each other in front of me. Not exactly eavesdropping they were talking aloud.

    One guy on phone to someone one talking about prices of a certain beer to someone going up.

    Another woman turn to guy on phone said its madness.

    Aldi is usually a quiet supermarket.

    Not exactly a building site with noise. Now is it.


    I was in for two minutes to buying a bottle of wine.

    A long 2 minutes mind you cause I couldn't decide myself. Imagine what its like all day or across the whole country.

    Why Iv to explain myself in detail. Do you want me to draw it in crayon for ya.

    How can you not comprehend something that people buy in their weekly shop has doubled overnight and you think it's fine.

    Bill's overall in this place have skyrocketed in the last few months.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Funny you should mention that, I just came back from Lidl where 17 people had various opinions on the MUP. 14 were "meh", 1 was using a phone card on the Eircom payphone to call his aunt in France to say they should do it there and the last 2 were sat on the freezers drafting a strongly worded letter of protest. It wasn't going well for the last 2 based on the amount of rolled up sheets of paper on the floors around them.

    This is all true, seriously, I even had to ask the last 2 to shift for a minute so I could get a bag of chips



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,372 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Has definitely replaced Covid as the conversation topic around here, think most hadn’t realised the effect it would have on them instead of the boyos buying the 50c cans, lots of bus trips being organised and the lads with vans have never been so popular lol.

    MasteryDarts Ireland - Master your game!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,426 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    I even had to ask the last 2 to shift.

    Well did they ?

    Shift each other ?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,302 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Look it believe what ya want to believe. I'm really fooked up of there is no proper discussion on these things without people resorting to calling people outright liars. That's what happened the two minutes I was in. Which if it sounds far fetched.

    Not exactly sci fi now is it.

    The bs I read on here about the whole country being raving alcoholics is amusing and being cheaper than water. Ffs ya couldn't make such shite.

    If ya dont like people drinking alcohol

    That's your problem. If youv have a family member affected by it I feel sorry for ya but that's still your problem .

    Sort it out with counselling. Not forcing a massive price increase on a product that most people consume in moderation.

    This will result in a lot more damage

    That's me done here. I wont reply to stupid callouts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,170 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    The level of argument on both sides of this debate leave a lot to be desired, imo.

    So much personal abuse, misrepresentation, belittling and oversimplification.

    While I'm against MUP, some of the other arguments against it are really pretty strange, though.

    As a nation, we have an odd relationship with alcohol, no question.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,750 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Very odd, had a good skinfull of craft lager there recently and got a taxi into the ‘town’ offie to get re-enforcements.

    On the way back unfortunately lost control and left about a quart of sour piss in the back seat.


    Still feel bad about keeping the poor lass off the road



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 648 ✭✭✭MakersMark


    Interestingly, nothing I drink has increased in price.



  • Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭agoodpunt


    Prude



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,382 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    This is the most idiotic and laughable argument of all. The idea that supermarkets would just absorb a €8-9 excise hike on a bottle of own brand vodka when you already acknowledge they are already absorbing costs! Or absorb a FURTHER hike of €20 or so on 24 beers (or nearly 30 in your example -which is rare) , on top of what they already lose. If anybody believes that their mammy should not let them cross the road on their own, not in your right mind. Embarrassing stuff...

    The price paid for the average can of guinness/heineken/bud was WELL below MUP in 2021, this €1.99-2.50 temporary pricing is in place to give the illusion that the cheaply produced beers are "premium". I would love to see the figures for the average price paid.

    A massive excise hike to match MUP would "help" far more people, I cannot see how anybody could argue against it, of course they will not want it since they do not want to pay more for THEIR beer, but if they are being fair, and genuinely want to "help" people what is the argument? The government are fully aware of what alcohol costs, the own brand beer & spirits do not have seasonal/fake discounts, they know fine well that a man drinking at the HSE low risk 17 units per week will face a risk of nearly 500euro per year. They have said this pretty much insignificant, realising that this is the rise for the poorest of the poor, or those with very little disposable income (could be a high earner with a big family). So a similar massive hike in excise should be just as acceptable, if you can afford to drink in pubs then it should have far less impact on you, in fact the price hike should be higher, which could be achieved by a massive VAT hike on alcohol -which would "help"/impact far more people. The poorest low risk drinkers are facing nearly 500euro per year rise, drinks of 4 times that price should ideally see a good 2000euro rise IMO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,382 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    I would certainly be content if excise was increased instead of MUP. I would not be happy as I do not want MUP at all, but it is certainly a better alternative. But if MUP has to happen then I would prefer a combined VAT and excise hike. It would "help" more people, a wealthy alco drinking 100 bottles of whiskey will easily afford a 8-9 euro increase. If anybody is in favour of cost as a means of dissuading people then it should be done in a manner that effects people more fairly. Just like in some countries fines are based on a % of peoples income.

    This "I'm alright Jack" attitude of many is disgusting, I want equal treatment even if I fare worse. I have said in other threads I would love to see alcohol made illegal (temporarily anyway), just like other recreational drugs, just to see the self righteous hypocritical anti-any-recreational-drug-but-mine have to suffer what others do for a change.

    This almost 500 euro per year hike for low risk drinkers is a massive % of disposable income for many, if the same % chunk was taken from wealthy low risk drinkers it would never have been passed.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Imagine the freakout from the vintners if excise was increased!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A review of some of the numbers involved for the folks who want to north





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    A friend of mine is in a wheelchair after being crashed into by a drunk driver returning from a barbeque 2 years ago. That barbeque had multiple slabs of alcohol most likely bought cheaply and then given pout like confetti. I'll pass your "I don't give a sh1te" message on to him. I really hope no friend or family member of yours gets whammed by a drunk driver coming back from some home event where alcohol is the be all and end all of the proceedings.


    I'm not saying mup would have made a difference, but the volume of alcohol at any type of home event is due to the phenomenal low cost of "slabs"


    As for your aldi experience, I still say BS especially as you say you were there for just 2 minutes. And whilst some items have doubled - they doubled on the extreme discounted price and would have gone up substantially anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    feck all savings as predicted. A look at sainsbury's website will tell you that anyway.

    Most people are not concerned about a few euro unless the saving is literally at their fingertips.

    Classic example is the Emo fuel garage in Johnstown - literally 3 minutes off the M8 at junction4. 10c a litre cheaper for diesel, yet its never rammed with cars the way the Junction 8 Circle K is. but that 3 minute detour would save €5/€6 off a standard fill and so few bother.


    I'm in Portadown a few times a year. I still won't be stopping off at the asda drive by



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,041 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Not a lot of saving unless you buy thousands of quids worth. Otherwise what you'll save you'll spend in petrol and then some coming from most places.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,302 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Well i if was making light of what people post like you I'd call bs on your story too. But i ain't like you.

    I dont dismiss people opinions as if there nothing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Speedline


    If you're going that far, you may as well get a week's shopping too while you're there. You'll Ave even more. Its not just drink that's cheaper.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,294 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    An interesting thought experiment is: would MUP have made sense for tobacco? Only a small proportion of the extra price (VAT) going to the government, the rest going to retailers and producers of tobacco products. Purchasers of expensive cigars unaffected, consumers of shag or roll your own (?) tobacco most affected. People who consumed 'on sale' tobacco in 'coffee shops' unaffected.

    So why does it make sense for alcohol...

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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