Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

If someone genuinely wants to debate/seek information about vaccines they would likely be on the medical/health forum or related.

If they are on a conspiracy forum, well, more often than not they are an anti-vaxxer either being direct about it, or masking it under a veil of "I'm just concerned about X". And this thread is straight-up anti-vaxx central.

Also if I was genuinely concerned about vaccines in children (who've been receiving vaccines for decades) then I'd be going to a reputable sources

I don't think doctors have an ulterior motive. No.

Did they have an ulterior motive in the States when freely prescribing Oxycodone? I don't know.

I do wonder why there seems to be what I consider you be imbalance in the Covid debate in general, not just about child vaccines. As a small example, last night we were treated to Anthony Staines from ISAG with his latest opinion as the lead story on Today FM news. I believe the media are biased. Perhaps I've read too much into the views of Chomsky & Herman on this point but I've always been one to question things. Just question it, not deny it outright.

If you are so sure medicine, the media & science are completely right this time. Why have they been wrong in the past?

Lol. Where did I say "medicine, the media & science are completely right this time"?

You were whinging a few posts ago about people assign arguments to you that you didn't make. It's very hypocritical for you to engage that in that same misrepresentation.

And again you've ignored questions put to you.

Do you believe there is an ulterior motive for why there "isn't debate" on the matter?

Yes or no?

If the answer to these questions is no, why would you want to discuss this topic in a conspiracy theory forum and not the other places that have been pointed out to you?

Again, you keep saying that you aren't an anti vaxxer, but you keep behaving like one. Ignoring questions and misrepresentation is a very common tactic used by them.

I believe the media are biased and only promote the narrative given to them by government and subscribers, so I guess that's an ulterior motive yes. They are biased.

I was referring to another posters reply in relation to the comment about medicine etc being right this time. You'll have to forgive me but there's a bit of a tag team thing going on here with regard to replies.

As for debating this on a conspiracy theory forum that is the precise point I was making from the start. I asked why a thread innocently entitled "Vaccine Safety" is filed under "Conspiracy Theories". It was explained that there were some wild arguments in there and it was moved there.

Are there not similarly "wild" or conspiratorial arguments made in the other general Coronavirus threads as well?

My OP, once again, was questioning why what I believe is an important debate is housed away under the moniker of conspiracy.

Yes I could start a new thread or debate it in a main Coronavirus thread but I thought an existing debate about vaccine safety, particularly for kids, might be more mainstream.

I'm not anti-vax. If I say it a 3rd time will you accept that? I'm vaccinated, not boosted. I'm anticipating you'll ask why? Because I had a bad reaction to the AZ vaccine. Was it definitely vaccine related? I don't know I'll never know. There could be 2 other causes. But it was such an unpleasant and still persisting reaction that I held off on the booster until I could see a specialist.

Ok. So you're suggesting that there is a conspiracy.

That makes you a conspiracy theorist I fear.

Why do you believe that the governments are trying to push an agenda to get children vaccinated with a dangerous and ineffective vaccine?

How did they manage to trick doctors and medical organisations into this when you've admitted that they aren't involved in this conspiracy?

And no, sorry I don't believe your claims about having adverse effects or "not being anti vaxx".

Claiming unverifiable personal experience with the vaccine is also a very common tactic of anti vaxxers.

If you want to just have a serious discussion about the safety of the vaccine, you've been pointed to several places were you can do so.

However, they will not tolerate your conspiracy theory that the media are being controlled to push the vaccines. Because that is a silly conspiracy theory with no place in serious adult discussions.

I think this is the true reason you are posting here and not in those places.

I'm not calling it a conspiracy. You and others are.

I am simply saying the media are biased. If that's a conspiracy then Noam Chomsky must be wearing great big tin foil hat as well.

And again, I never ever ever said the vaccine is dangerous & ineffective. Please stop misquoting me. I simply said I'm still not convinced of its efficacy or safety in kids. If you can't understand the difference in those 2 stances then that's your problem.

And if you still think I'm anti vax or that I may (I repeat may) have had an adverse reaction, then there is little else to debate with you because you are incapable of accepting what I write. Is that ignorance or paranoia or what is it?

Ok. So if it isn't a conspiracy, why is the media biased towards the safety and effectiveness of the vaccines?

Why do you believe that the government is trying to push vaccinations to kids that could be potentially dangerous and ineffective?

Not sure why I've had to ask you this 3 times to get a straight answer.

And yes, I still think you are anti vax and making things up about your personal experience.

I will accept what you write as long as it's stuff that you can back up with evidence.

Do you want me to send you the ECG of my arrhythmia?

And I've already answered the other question. I never said the vaccine is dangerous & ineffective and the government are therefore pushing an ineffective & dangerous vaccine. My view is that it needs more debate.

I could turn that question around, why are some other governments NOT pushing the vaccine for the same cohort then?

Nope. You can't provide any evidence I think will convince me. Again many many anti-vaxxers have claimed to have had bad personal experience.

Personal experience you can't verify doesn't have any place in any debate on the topic.

You haven't answered my questions, you are dodging them by nitpicking and whinging about the wording.

Why do you believe that the governments are pushing vaccines?

Simple question, you keep dodging it.

I believe they are pushing it because the majority of doctors and medical organisations have shown that they are safe and beneficial for kids.

I cannot think of any other reason why they would be doing so if there was good reason to think that they were not safe and beneficial.

Your vague claims of big pharma money do not hold much weight because they are so vague, nor could they explain why doctors would support the vaccines when you've accepted that they aren't supporting the vaccines for ulterior motives.

As for why some other countries aren't pushing the vaccines as much as others, there could be a great number of reasons, such as their differing infrastructure, different progress in vaccination, differing views about public trust and opinion.

Which of the governments you are referring to are not pushing because of safety concerns? Please list them and show where they have stated this.

What do you mean by "this"?

Vaccines in general?

Vaccines in general have a very good record. Of course, there have been some issues, but looking at them in context, they are isolated rather than systematic. Likewise there have been millions of medical treatments and products, out of all of those there were obviously incidents where treatments/products had issues. Whether for negligence, fraud, research issues, etc. But the vast majority have been safe.

Again, I'm not sure how this is conspiracy related?

The government believe they are safe, hence they are promoting them.

Yes Pandemrix. Did they not also believe Pandemrix was safe or were those compensation sums awarded in court my imagination?

I'd prefer the more cautious approach of somewhere like Norway or Sweden where I believe (happy to be proven wrong) they aren't vaccinating kids under 12 without underlying conditions. I reckon their infrastructure is as good if not better than ours if it came to vaccinating kids.

You do also realise you are calling me a liar regarding the fact that you don't believe I have an arrhythmia and am waiting to see a specialist, in May as it happens? If I was an anti vaxxer would I not exclusively be blaming this on the vaccine and not being simply quizzical about it being a potential cause and therefore hesitant about getting a booster shot? Do you realise how childish or paranoid that makes you look?

Come on, this is a blatant lie on your behalf. The data being released by Pfizer is around the trial data, which the FDA have been releasing (Pfizer don't control that data anymore), it's also got nothing at all to do with the ingredients.

You should feel really bad in yourself for posting something that stupid.