Sock-Puppetting and the Current Affairs Forum

DaveCliftonAP · 08-01-2022 9:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118425945#Comment_118425945

Does Francie's second account also get banned or how does banning work when a user has multiple accounts?

Beasty · 08-01-2022 1:13pm

The Happyman42 account was closed 6 years ago

Francie does have another account I am aware of. If that account is used during this ban period then both will be permanently banned

I have indicated the sanction applied to Francie's current account is not a topic for discussion here. I will though add my thought process that resulted in that ban

When someone pointed out extra examples of him using both accounts at the same time I started looking at the accounts and where and when they posted. I PM'd Francie to let him know that further information had come to my attention. Initially I was thinking given the passage of time that an acknowledgement that he had done this was sufficient. He pointed out that his recollection after 11 years could not be definitive. That's a point I fully acknowledged. He indicated any examples of using both would have been errors due to the different PCs he gas access to around his house

So I dug deeper looking at timing of posts, and identified the pattern set out in my prior post. That involved switching between the 2 accounts over a very short period (less than an hour) one evening with a gap of a few minutes in one case

Again I understand Francie would not recall the detail. However so far as I was concerned it showed a clear intent to deceive at the time. If we had known about that at the time both accounts would have been permanently sitebanned, although he would have been able to make his case in Prison and would probably have been able to regain access on appeal, but under strict conditions. And indeed there would have still been some period of ban served

My view was, based on what I had seen in that history, but also Francie's own comments in this thread, that a complete "pardon" was inappropriate. I knew there would be claims of inconsistency if I had done that. Given everything that has been said in this thread, as well as the specifics here, a siteban was appropriate. There is no Prison forum to make your case on this platform. A month would have been the sort of time period I would have considered on the old platform, but it's not possible to issue "timed" sitebans on this platform. It's all or nothing and I did not think a permanent ban without Prison was appropriate

Short bans can be applied through the accumulation of warnings. Each point applicable to a warning stays on an account for 1 week. A 2 pointed warning lasts for 2 weeks. If a 1 and 2 point warnings are issued simultaneously they remain on the record for 3 weeks. 5 "active" points = an automatic siteban for the remaining period of those warnings. Hence by applying 5 points a siteban kicks in and doing that at the same time makes it a 5 week ban. 5 weeks is the minimum ban that can be applied in this way and was applied in this case

Crocodile Booze · 08-01-2022 1:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118437416#Comment_118437416

You could be right. A lot of Guinness loving Galwegians around alright.

08-01-2022 3:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118437222#Comment_118437222

First good job to all involved for uncovering such activity. Disgusting deception like this ruins healthy debate.

I’ve had suspicions of dormant accounts popping up to post at times in and around active users with the same posting style but never thought to report it! I definitely will from now. My experience hasn’t been with sf threads but more culture war type topics in current affairs.

New users that tend to be more controversial are swiftly dispatched but it’s the long standing users like me Murphy who seem to get away with the sort of ‘light-touch’ moderation discussed in this thread. Well done Beasty.

facehugger99 · 08-01-2022 3:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118437819#Comment_118437819

Poor Francie's credibility is gone, so I'd imagine we'll see a new user before too long - Not a SF voter obviously but one who's posting 24/7 in support of every SF policy position.

blanch152 · 08-01-2022 6:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118437683#Comment_118437683

Well, at the same time, we now have two examples of confirmed sock-puppetting relating to supporters of a particular political party (though one relates to a decade ago and appears relatively minor). That will inevitably lead to questions whenever there appears to be a coordinated defence of that party or support of that party. Humans think and operate like that, and while we can try and educate people that not all are the same, you are on an uphill battle with the accumulation of evidence.

Unfortunately, the behaviour in labelling others (recalcitrant unionists, partitionists, West Brits, FFGers) as these now-banned accounts commonly did won't help their "side" in avoiding being now labelled in return.

Fionn1952 · 08-01-2022 8:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118439846#Comment_118439846

Two examples in ten years is hardly groundbreaking evidence of a concerted effort, Blanch.

That being said, I'm sure some will use it to suggest that any criticism they receive is part of a concerted effort and use that to deflect from legitimate points raised, and some will pretend it never happened at all, there were no sock puppets really and couldn't possibly happen again.

The vast majority I suspect will continue on relatively normally, with a slightly heightened tendency to ask the mods to take a look....which I'd suggest is a much more mature response than your proposal of accusing anyone who disagrees of being a Shinnerbot Sock Puppet and letting every single thread descend into nonsense accusations. I'd be a bigger fan of letting the mods look after it myself.

08-01-2022 8:09pm

I don't think anybody would disagree that we dont want accusations of shinnerbot activity to be the default norm

It would be good imo if the actual evidence of shinnerbot activity was acknowledged by anyone who is only protesting a backlash that hasnt happened as yet

It would be good imo if ppl acknowledged that accusations and suspicions of shinnerbot activity over the past few years has seemingly been justified.

That would seem like two fair things to ask before we moved swiftly on to pretending this thread was started out of nowhere

Fionn1952 · 08-01-2022 9:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118440550#Comment_118440550

As I'm probably the most vocal on the, 'potential backlash' side, I'd just point out that I've been pretty clear on both your asks right off the bat when posting in the thread.

I've actually found your posts a very reasonable middle ground, SS. My argument is against what I see as quite an extreme, reactionary position held by Blanch, certainly not any of the points you've made.

08-01-2022 9:51pm

thats fair enough tbh- i think you have noted the context reasonably, a few others haven't which is just unbalanced in the situation

CrookedJack · 08-01-2022 10:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118441031#Comment_118441031

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118441155#Comment_118441155

Isn't it interesting how easy it is to have these discussions when specific posters have been removed.

08-01-2022 11:53pm

Look i dont want to keep bumping the thread but honestly one aspect of the whole thing just doesnt sit well with me and i think it needs resolution

Surely the title should be "sock puppetry" i mean nobody practices puppetting ask anyone who puppets

Scarleh for yeh OP

Esel · 08-01-2022 11:55pm

^ I prefer Sock Muppetry myself.

facehugger99 · 09-01-2022 12:16am

facehugger99 · 09-01-2022 12:27am

What is most concerning from this thread is the relative ease that Shinnerbot sock-puppetry has been allowed on Boards. If anyone thinks the McMurphy antics were an isolated incidence, they are a fool.

Anyone with even a passing interest in the CA forum could see that it was being targeted by pro-SF online tactics. Francie Brady, finally an acknowledged sock-puppet, was given free rein to bombard any thread, critical of SF, with his whataboutary BS - hell, he was even allowed into this thread to do it.

As far as the "way to go Beasty" comments are concerned, the Moderation of these antics are appalling - it was only after a poster provided cast-iron proof of Francie's sock-puppetry, that any sanctions were taken.

Fair dues the poster that took the time to expose Francie Brady - he did the job the Mods should have done years ago.

CrookedJack · 09-01-2022 1:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118441970#Comment_118441970

You're conflating two things there - running multiple accounts in a deceitful way, and being an awful poster who purposefully destroys reasonable discussion to serve an agenda. Francie certainly did the latter i don't think we can really accuse him of the former. While Francie was technically sock-puppeting i think it would be unfair characterise him as such since it was one occasion 10 years ago, compared to the post this thread is about.

It not fair to give the mods a hard time for not catching sock-puppets since this thread is about them doing exactly that, and the other example given was thoroughly investigated and also punished. If you've evidence of it and have presented it to the mods and they've ignored it that would be one thing, but i'm presuming you just have suspicions due to the unpleasant way certain posters ruin threads. correct me if i'm wrong. If you've no evidence it's hardly fair to blame mods for not acting on simple allegations.

I do think Francie was modded with a very light touch considering his posting style. His posts are so similar to Downcows, just opposite in allegiance, that i would readily believe if they were the same person. Yet Downcow gets dealt with much more harshly as do others who find themselves disagreeing with Francie and co. in the protocol thread alone there was pages of posters directly criticizing Downcow in a personal way, i was one of them, yet it was only when I directed mild criticism towards Francie that i was warned.

Now it may be that Francie and his like are more likely to report items and that leads to apparent mod bias, but with that being invisible to general users it's very hard to see it as anything else.

blanch152 · 09-01-2022 2:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118440519#Comment_118440519

I never made a proposal to accuse anyone who disagrees of being a Shinnerbot Sock Puppet. Your imagination is running away.

All I said is that from now on SF-supporting pile-ons will be look at with a jaundiced eye. That is no fault of anyone except the SF-supporting sock-puppets.

As for the two examples in ten years hardly groundbreaking evidence, an alternate explanation is that it has been happening for ten years, and they are the only two who were caught. I wouldn't be drawing any conclusions either way.

blanch152 · 09-01-2022 2:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118441813#Comment_118441813

You got me there!!! 😂

mikethecop · 09-01-2022 3:45pm

Great thread , fantastic to see the shinnerbots being exposed as they do so much damage here in the past and ongoing

A shame something cant be done about it long term , I guess an online army is the way politics is done these days

i do hate the way that pointing out shinnerbots instantly makes you a ff fg stooge 🤭

the irony of shinnerbots denying the existence of shinnerbots is gas and very much the organisation party line just like gerry

fair play to the mods and other posters calling out these digital jackbooted bully's it was fun to watch

09-01-2022 5:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118442308#Comment_118442308

Id add a third very suspicious thing, that maybe doesnt come under sockpuppeting, but has been pointed out many many times, often resulting in a warning to the person pointing it out:

An account years old, seemingly logged in fourteen hours a day, available to respond within minutes to any possible topic that can be brought around to the SF party line and kept there to the detriment of discussion across hundreds of threads in that time.

An account that I have never seen post on any topic other that to deflect discussion away from SF or towards FG as the former party would wish.

Lads, 999 doesnt respond with that level of reaction and focus.

Thats not sock puppeting but it definitely needs to come under serious attention because that's two full-time jobs for most people yet theres apparently nothing suspicious about any of it if the question is ever asked.

I think now is absolutely the time and the place to ask the mods once and for all whether they really are asking everyone else to swallow this fairly obvious setup and just carry on bothering to post, ignoring the whataboutery, provocation and thread wrecking that has become the mark of current affairs political discussion in the last few years on the site.

Harryd225 · 09-01-2022 10:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118444091#Comment_118444091

I don't know much about what happened and I don't recollect any of the users involved and their posting history, were all of these accounts pro sinn féin?

I noticed at time one of the ten banned accounts listed by beasty were called ''scumfein'' so I automatically assumed that these accounts were all anti sinn féin accounts?

Why are these accounts being labelled as shinnerbots and not the other way around?

09-01-2022 11:11pm

Do you very often hop into threads without reading the posts in them and then tell everyone that you're confused?

Esel · 09-01-2022 11:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446596#Comment_118446596

Are you now, or have you ever been, a ... ?

Harryd225 · 09-01-2022 11:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446662#Comment_118446662

The point is, who is to say these accounts were made to benefit Sinn Féin like people are suggesting and not the other way around?

atticu · 09-01-2022 11:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118437222#Comment_118437222

I have to agree with you.

I don’t think that Johnny Dogs McMurpy is gone from Boards.ie.

I don’t think that all the active Johnny Dogs McMurphy account have been uncovered.

One thing is that many posters will remember that posting style, and when new users start posting in that style, then I think that it will be time to ‘stop feeding the Troll’.

Working class heroes · 09-01-2022 11:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446825#Comment_118446825

It’s more the re-activated dormant accounts I’d say.....

CrookedJack · 09-01-2022 11:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446795#Comment_118446795

Do you really have the gall to suggest that the 10+ sock-puppets which were posting in favour of Sinn Fein and it's positions were some kind of aniti-SF operation? The blatant attempts here to somehow shift away any sort of association with Sinn Fein is so baldly apparent. Fionn and other reasonable posters take note, these are the kind of tactics that undercut any sort acknowledgment you make of the issue.

Harry, in case you missed it, in the original posts here https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118382256/#Comment_118382256 Beasty is the one who states that the Scumfein account was clearly there to cause outrage and kite moderates to the SF side.

Harryd225 · 10-01-2022 12:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446852#Comment_118446852

I would have no way of knowing without going through the posts which have been deleted but maybe these McMurphy accounts were made to make invalid arguments for the purpose of undermining the SF position and to make moderates go to the anti SF side.

It's a pointless exercise either way, it's not that boards is going to have any real influence but it's just a thought.

Annasopra · 10-01-2022 12:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446922#Comment_118446922

Why are you even commenting on it if its all pointless? Seems to me you are stirring it up looking for a reaction.

Ha Long Bay · 10-01-2022 12:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118446958#Comment_118446958

Think the term is deflection.

Sock-Puppetting and the Current Affairs Forum

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