Still no Nationwide DAB Radio

Andy From Sligo · 06-01-2016 6:39pm

If you (/they) want DAB+ to be a sucess you make it so 99% signal available to the whole of the Republic of ireland, not just dense areas, then even though I am not into marketing so i dont know really how you market it, apart from tell people about the much clear sound than FM and extra services like telling you what radio station your listening to and any extra info on the LCD display on the DAB radio such as the show or the song playing

to me now, if I listen to a weak FM station and its crackly or 'shushy!' then thats it I will no longer listen to it and tune into one of the stronger station on FM - that could mean that a station that relies on advertising say if its a local station and its bad quality on FM and people dont listen to it because its not clear then they have lost all those listeners who tune into a stronger station or forget listening to the radio totally because the sound is of bad quality then the advertisers wont bother advertising with that radio station and they are gone!

Anologue is old hat - Digital is superior, digital is the future and if the technology has been invented and proved it works then shouldnt it be used and either the outdated analogue (FM radio) be ditched as old technology? or if it has to then run alongside digital DAB+ signals to give people choice (nationwide!) - those that like listening to FM and get an absolute clear (as much as FM can be) sound carry on listening to it. Those that want better quality signal and some extra features with their radios have it so that if the consumer goes to currys or whatever and buys a nice shiny brand new DAB radio or high quality hi-fi system with DAB+ built into it they know they are going to get home and pick all the available radio stations they can get on their new device rather than "no stations available!" - when they do a search on DAB - these days it should all be about choice for the consumer.

SimonMaher · 06-01-2016 6:50pm

xband wrote: »

Anyway, I've no intentions of engaging in a grumpy nerd war on here. Good luck with your DAB/DAB+ ... You'll need it!

Ship has sailed buddy, and you're on it

Simon

08-01-2016 4:19pm

Wish RTE would put GOLD on FM,its a great station which would do well nationwide.They could swap it for RnaG and put that on MW!

end of the road · 08-01-2016 5:52pm

zorro2566 wrote: »

Wish RTE would put GOLD on FM,its a great station which would do well nationwide.They could swap it for RnaG and put that on MW!

puting rnag on mw is not an option as.
1. rte got rid of their mw transmitters.
2. few listen to mw compared to fm.
3. rnag is a public service and part of rte's public service remit. it must be easily and conveniently accessible to its audience

SimonMaher · 22-06-2016 12:30pm

Interesting piece below about the development of small-scale DAB on it's first anniversary in the UK. Looks like no major Radio groups have collapsed and progress is being made on the technical as well as programming front while providing extra diversity of services. Hope we never do anything like that. Down with that sort of thing.

"A year after Ofcom first announced the winning applicants in a trial of "small scale DAB", the new independent operators have started to outdo existing operators with technological advancement on the platform.

Small scale DAB was devised as a more affordable way for smaller stations to launch a DAB digital radio service across smaller geographical areas than traditional DAB services. In June 2015, Ofcom revealed who would be part of the trial, giving new, small operators in places including Glasgow, London, Manchester, Norwich and Portsmouth the chance to run a so-called DAB 'minimux'.

Already the signs are that the new entrants to the world of DAB are shaking up the status quo: two of the operators - Niocast Digital in Manchester and Solent Wireless serving Portsmouth have led the way in adopting the newer DAB+ standard, with half or just over half of all services on their multiplexes now using the standard. Compare that to the multiplexes operated by the big radio groups, where original flavour DAB with mono sound still rules the roost, and that's despite the ever growing number of devices that can now handle DAB+ - now a common standard in most countries that use DAB for terrestrial radio services.

Whereas traditional operators have tended to fill their multiplexes with mono offshoots of their services in original flavour DAB, the new smaller operators utilising DAB+ mostly broadcast in stereo and can still save on DAB distribution costs - thanks to lower bandwidth requirements - opening the door to DAB for more stations.

Now, an increasing number of services using small scale DAB services have started to activate slideshows. A common feature on DAB in other countries, slideshows allow users of DAB devices with a suitable display, including the DAB compatible LG Stylus 2 and many in-car systems, to see additional information.

The Slideshow function can be used to show album art, programme information, news or just an enhanced station logo image. Previously only available on Heart and Capital on London DAB, DAB slideshow has been introduced on Indulgence on the Solent Wireless DAB multiplex, The Breeze on the Bristol minimux and is available on Angel via the Aldershot, Birmingham and Norwich minimuxes. Ash Elford from Solent Wireless confirmed they're working on making slideshows available on other services on the multiplex in due course.

Originally, the small scale DAB trials were due to come to an end now. But given their success, Ofcom has extended the trials for another two years and it's looking likely that these multiplexes will in time become a permanent fixture in the UK's DAB landscape once the legal licensing technicalities are sorted out.

Despite the small coverage offered by these services and the many niche services being carried, the technological advancement offered by these trials: making use of newer technology to make DAB distribution more affordable, maximising the use of DAB radio displays and providing listeners with more than just the usual radio content recycled under the "Extra" banner, small scale DAB is providing the platform with a much needed boost from the grassroots of radio."

http://www.a516digital.com/2016/06/small-scale-dab-one-year-on-driving.html

Ballycommon Mast · 31-12-2021 12:23pm

There is going to be a lot of closures & job losses in UK radio when the current credit bubble bursts imo.

tinytobe · 10-01-2022 5:41pm

I'd say if radio wants to survive long term they would better come up with something new. Young people's listening habits are simply different, and they will be shaping the market in the years to come.

DAB+ offers the chance for various different music streams to be offered on the radio, and that with minimal or strongly reduced cost. Focusing on FM alone is simply no long term choice anymore otherwise everything will shift to the internet.

Even small countries like Switzerland and Norway managed to move to DAB+, so Ireland could do it as well, provided positive attitude and no blockages by current public and private radio operators.

Declan A Walsh · 10-01-2022 5:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118450688#Comment_118450688

Do you not think that particular ship has sailed now and emphasis is moving very much towards the internet, given improvements in technology and the advent of smart phones, etc.?

david23 · 11-01-2022 7:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118450773#Comment_118450773

DAB has proved popular in the UK even though there has been a growth in smart speakers and smart phones. About 70% of households claim to own at least one DAB radio, and the platform has 43% of all radio listening (FM/AM is 34% and online is 18%).

There are about 45 national stations, and small scale local DAB is being rolled out over the next five years. In 2020 the BBC published a study which showed that a combination of DAB & IP (and closing FM/AM) would be more energy efficient than IP only radio delivery.

tinytobe · 15-01-2022 3:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118450773#Comment_118450773

No, not really. For example DAB+ is on the increase in Germany, even though mobile flatrate internet exists. Switzerland is a similar example. France will also increase DAB+ coverage during 2022.

I think in Ireland existing radio stations are hesitant regarding DAB+ as they fear a shake up of the market and losing revenue, - but that concern is not really a valid one in my opinion. In the end, Irish radio stations public or private will prosper with DAB+. They can easily start new stations, have lower cost, put online internet streams on DAB+ and sell advertisement for tailored to the audience, also there is no fumbling with your cell phone anymore as it's in your car stereo as well. With new cars in the EU, DAB+ is a mandatory feature these days.

The main issue in Ireland is that RTE isn't driving DAB+ anymore, and without the national broadcaster DAB+ didn't really succeed in any country. Also the idea of keeping the LW transmitter 252 is not a good idea as fewer and fewer people have LW radios, not only in Ireland but also in the UK.

tv3tg4 · 15-01-2022 10:29pm

Dab radio would give more choice. I think the dab decision will probably be revisited.

Ballycommon Mast · 15-01-2022 10:39pm

There's absolutely no point in comparing Ireland to countries that have had nationwide DAB since about 1995. Ireland should be compared to Finland or Portugal. Anybody in today's day in age who isn't going to go fumbling with a smartphone isn't going to go fumbling with a DAB receiver either.

end of the road · 15-01-2022 11:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118482118#Comment_118482118

no real fumbling with a DAB receiver though in fairness.

years ago sure but they have long moved on.

15-01-2022 11:29pm

DAB here is basically dead because there is no commercial interest in it. RTE only needs a few stations. FM has more than enough capacity for that.

You can't flog a dead horse, nor can you force the market to suit a 1980s-90s tech. A huge amount has changed since DAB launched - it was peak MTV, there were no smartphones, no on demand, streaming was abysmal quality real player, internet was mostly 56kbps dial up and largely incapable of straming audio and often timed per minute. Analogue Cable TV was still exciting ...

It's like trying to launch MTV now. It would fail badly.

end of the road · 15-01-2022 11:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118482059#Comment_118482059

there is no doubt that would be the case as it lowers costs, removes large amounts of unnecessary regulation and allows resources to go further.

but it is unlikely to be revisited unfortunately.

end of the road · 16-01-2022 12:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118482377#Comment_118482377

the problem is that the market actually isn't the one who has genuinely made the decision not to adopt it, it's existing stations and the regulator who not only have decided that they don't want it but nobody else can have it, meaning that anyone who would be interested in operating a station can't do so, not only on DAB but on FM either, because no new fm licenses will be issued apart from possibly community stations.

as well as that no proper framework is in place anyway to operate a mux or station on a full time basis so we don't know that there is or isn't commercial interest because nobody can operate a full time mux and thus nobody can operate a station on one without that.

i don't think anyone has proposed that existing stations should be forced to use it all though we do know that DAB+ which is a 2000s technology lowers costs in terms of transmission, and it also makes the current ridiculously expensive model forced on stations even more untenable then it has been for a long time.

but yes ultimately i agree business as usual will continue as is but there is no reason a country like ireland can't have a real market on a small scale as was fought for during the 1980s.

because what we got in 1989 certainly isn't that.

Ballycommon Mast · 16-01-2022 12:33am

I remember years ago you had Paschal Mooney speaking in the seanad on behalf of a couple of rural local stations, complaining about the fact that FM104 & 98fm could be picked up in their area via overspill, and asking could RTE Networks "do something" to prevent this happening🙄. So there was no way these guys were ever going to agree to dab but thankfully we have the internet now so we don't need to depend on gombeens to decide what we can listen to.

16-01-2022 12:33am

I think to be quite honest, give it 10 years and it won’t be DAB+ we are worried about, it’ll be failing FM stations.

They’re not the money printing licences they used to be as the ad spend is going elsewhere - increasing online.

Ballycommon Mast · 16-01-2022 12:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118482656#Comment_118482656

Yep the value of those radio stations has already fallen substantially, you had Bauer buying a portfolio of 5 radio stations for 100 million recently but back in 2008, Today FM alone was valued at that amount. God knows what they'll be worth in another decade.

Andy From Sligo · 16-01-2022 1:31am

I am quite angry in a way in northwest that we havent got the choice of stations that other places may have so its pretty limited on the FM band. on a typical weekday is oceanfm Ireland that feels like its turning more and more into a station that caters for the older generation and the country music genre creeping into now *all shows* on the daytime schedule. Ocean FM won a bid years back to replace Northwest Radio promising a different new vibrant regional show for the northwest - it never happened , they just played the same genre as NWR nothing changed. - Today FM play great music .. but only up to 4.30pm then its talking for hours with Matt cooper .. have we not got Newstalk FM for them kind of discussions? - iradio and 2FM are OK'ish but I feel like I have outgrown I am in my 50's now and those 2 stations sound like I am listening to BBC Radio 1 in the UK with all the 'New Music' and hip hop and rapping etc - so FM (the small amount of stations that I can receive where I am situated) Has really gone useless to me and what I want to hear throughout the day as far as radio as a medium / entertainment goes. I have radio's in the house (I think every one I have now can get FM + DAB on them ) DAB is out then because no DAB in Ireland which is a shame because if there was a good service (not looking for much , maybe 20 stations on DAB would be enough and I would find something I like) then I could easily tune in with my DAB radios and save my favourites into the presets of it .... no internet needed, no searching for stations - I have alexa and i sometimes listen to Radio NOVA in the afternoons on it . ... Ideally I like and would like to listen to my local radio station (Ocean FM) instead for all the local news travel and weather and anything else going on locally ... but I am missing out because of the genre of music they play throughout the day - I do like the odd country and western song now and again but its infiltrating regularly more than ever into the stations music and shows - I get maybe their listeners are of a certain age and a genre of music (country music) and thats where their market is and they dont want to upset them and loose listeners but God it gets dire most days and I have to turn over and I dont know if its just me but it seems to be getting more and more that way. Over Christmas they had some of the newer presenters like Shane smith and another guy (cannot remember his name) and wow it was like listening to a totally different radio station and played a great variety of songs (I presume they could play their own playlist) .... but now its back to normal so i dont even bother listening to it any more now. - anyway sorry for rant , just to say that I think thos in Ireland that can only pick up a handful (if that ) of FM radio stations need a good independent clear sounding DAB service more than ever these days I think, its all about choice and I dont believe there is enough choice especially in a weak FM signal area

16-01-2022 1:53am

It would be great but the problem is density.

If you look at somewhere like the NW, you’ve 66,000 in Co. Sligo, 32,000 in Leitrim and 159,900 in Donegal, which has two franchise areas, so in reality I would say Ocean only has maybe 50,000 from Donegal. It’s the kind of population you’d get in a couple of suburbs of a city.

That's a tiny market and it has an issue in the sense that younger listeners are far, far more likely to be listening to Spotify, Apple Music etc, YouTube and podcasts than older audiences, and that’s likely why those FM stations are sounding older. They’re chasing what they perceive as a market rather than going up against steaming / online, iRadio & 2fm.

I could see FM outside of the bigger stations and the cities eventually becoming more needing to be community driven than commercial and we need to be preparing for that because it’s really an inevitably in a lot of areas.

There’s going to be a big shift in the market whether or not we want there to be and you can talk about energy efficiency of DAB vs streaming and all sorts of other arguments but that’s just the way the tide is going.

tinytobe · 16-01-2022 3:28pm

I've had a look at various Dublin FM radio stations and their websites. FM104, 98FM as well as Today FM offer streams, which are only online, - they should be on DAB+ as well. It would be that easy, and the cost would be minimal and the capacity will be there as well, as opposed to FM. it would also be possible for TalkSport to set up an Irish-oriented programme, just as they did for Scotland. Don't expect for TalkSport UK to be there on 1089 AM forever.

Looking further into the future, listeners expect a little more from radio, than what is on offer today, - at least outside of Dublin. DAB+ offers the best solution.

DAB+ is the standard by the EU and also the UK ( there is also the older DAB in the UK as well), so a small country like Ireland won't be able to say no to DAB+ forever, I think.

Ballycommon Mast · 16-01-2022 8:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118484597#Comment_118484597

There seems to be a bit of confusion in this thread. The title of this thread is "Still no Nationwide DAB Radio" Rolling out DAB to 97% odd of the population to match FM definitely wouldn't have a minimal cost and there's absolutely no chance of anybody coughing up the money to do that. What you seem to be suggesting is small scale muxes in places like Dublin, yes that would have a minimal cost alright but then we are back to square one of the original post of people wondering why does Dublin get DAB but not the hillside in Sligo. It should also be noted that RTE provided a DAB service to 1.5 million odd adults for 15 years but DAB had a grand total listenership of 1650 people according to official figures released in early 2021

tinytobe · 16-01-2022 9:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118485942#Comment_118485942

Sorry about that I was unclear. I would suggest one or some day possibly even two nationwide muxes for the whole of Ireland, possibly with a good overspill into the North, and various local muxes for Dublin, Cork, Gallway, Limerick, or Sligo. On these muxes existing radio stations would broadcast their various webstreams.

I think Dublin and Cork already have a very local mux which is being used by some stations which are not FM.

Also don't tend to think that Ireland is too small, - even in Switzerland the FM band doesn't cater to today's audience any more. They even want to switch of FM in a couple of years. Norway did already, even the public broadcaster is on DAB+ only and the country is way bigger in size than Ireland and has more mountains.

I don't think that the RTE ever marketed DAB+ properly in Ireland, instead the RTE seemed to focus on the LW transmitter and a signal which doesn't even cover the UK properly. LW radios are not that common anymore these days anyway.

Ballycommon Mast · 16-01-2022 9:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118486213#Comment_118486213

In fairness to RTE, I remember them wanting to close LW 252 about 10/12 years ago but politicians and activists came out with emotionally charged arguments about irish elderly people in England losing their "only connection to home"

tinytobe · 16-01-2022 9:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118486295#Comment_118486295

This has been mentioned often. And as you said, politicians and activists, with emotionally charged arguments, doesn't make it truth or reality.

I lived in the UK for many years, and I can tell you with utter certainty that the 252 doesn't even cover the UK properly. I've tested it many times. They reduced power of the transmitter as well.

They could also have used a MW transmitter, also in the UK LW Radios are less and less common, even among cricket loving BBC R 4 listeners. RTE Radio 1 was on MW and so was even Radio 2 at some point but that was turnes off. The 252 is just a waste of energy and budget and doesn't reach any audience and certainly not the elderly irish living in the UK.

tv3tg4 · 06-07-2023 10:46pm

The failure of rte to roll out dab radio showed no vision..Dab radio could have provided greater choice.

Do ye think this decision will be reviewed?

limnam · 07-07-2023 9:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120815881#Comment_120815881

Greater choice than the interwebz?

Not likely.

lertsnim · 07-07-2023 9:34am

Internet radio is becoming the norm with all the smart speaker devices in homes now and the stations here who rejected DAB because they didn't want increased competition will now be competing with stations from all over the world. It was very short sighted foolishness on their parts.

waywill1966 · 07-07-2023 11:07am

Its another example of the arrogance of the powers that be in Ireland that they think only of protecting their little clique! Digital radio is running successfully in the UK and Northern Ireland and offers greater choice,maybe not greater quality but at least the option is there for listeners. As Lertsim said you can access any station in the world from your home through Alexa,internet radio and via your smart phone in the car!

Still no Nationwide DAB Radio

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