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United Ireland Poll - please vote

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,232 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    It is no longer a binary choice, and the GFA needs to wake up to that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    It literally IS a binary choice until the GFA is renegotiated......and that will only come off the back of actual support for an alternative. Unfortunately for you, that support doesn't exist.

    I'm not actually entirely opposed to one of your proposed alternatives by the way, Blanch.....but I've enough years of ears on the ground back home to understand that the support just isn't there for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,232 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The support isn't there for it yet, like Moses, I am a prophet in the desert. The single unified Ireland will never be achieved, however small or large the Northern Irish minority is, the concessions required whether they be devolved government or federalism to win that minority over to a united Ireland will bring in one of the versions I propose.

    The longer that the nationalists cling on to the idea of a single united Ireland, the further away the prospect of that will go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    There is absolutely no way any third option has enough support to be taken seriously. If it looks like we are on the verge of a UI, I can see desperate partitionists trying it on but unlikely even that will number beyond a few cranks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,232 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Nope, it doesn't look like we are on the verge of a UI, that is wishful nonsense. What is clear is that the two sectarian extremes in Northern Ireland are in decline, and whichever of them wants to hold a long-term advantage needs to reach out to that group. The Alliance are the key.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Speedline


    If art 16 is triggered and northern Ireland starts to suffer, that will greatly increase the possibility of a border poll.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭Dazler97


    Yes I get most people in Northern Ireland see themselves as another country etc no classing as Irish or British but I honestly can see a united Ireland in the horizon but that would mean the IRA die out (which is good because there bastards) and unionists going mad probably causing even more trouble



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Another out of context misrepresentation.....

    I said:

    If it looks like we are on the verge of a UI

    You said:

    Nope, it doesn't look like we are on the verge of a UI, that is wishful nonsense

    You are out of touch. Plenty who want a UI or want to remain UK have zero to do with unionists or shinners. For example we've every leader of every Irish party wanting a UI. No extremes necessary.

    There is and will only ever be two options. Its about a UI and whether or not. Theres isn't a third option.

    Is there even a party or body fielding that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,232 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You are talking about out of context misrepresentation and then post that!!!!

    I never mentioned Sinn Fein. There will be more options, it's inevitable. Those that can't see that are repeating history's mistakes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    What constutes a 'sectarian extreme' and doesn't include SF or Unionists? At least own you twisting my comment.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,232 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I have talked many times on here about the difficulties and costs of creating a united Ireland. The unicorns and rainbows brigade have told me repeatedly not to worry as things will be all right on the night. Here is an article that sets out the huge challenges in the area of education:

    What are people's thoughts on this? For example, are people in the South willing to see the Leaving Cert abolished to facilitate a united Ireland? Will teachers be happy to change the way that they have taught to adapt?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,232 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You are indeed correct, there are many exclusionary nationalists who claim to have never voted for Sinn Fein but intend to do so at the next election.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    I know like Bertie, Varadkar, Kenny and Coveney. Are these the sectarian extremists you are talking about?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,819 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Down South most progressives, left-wingers and SF voters are fully behind getting rid of religion in school.... in the North though, SF voters and supporters are fully behind the Catholic indoctrination of children from the age of 3 and 4.....

    Very odd, don't you all think?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,232 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Don't think they fit the category as they haven't expressed the intention of voting for Sinn Fein for the first time ever in the next election. But you are off down a rabbit-hole on this one, so I will let you go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,232 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    There is a dichotomy in Sinn Fein between the hardline old-timers who are deeply conservative and deeply religious and the more modern liberals, mainly in the South.

    It is only when you step into the details beyond the rainbows and unicorns version of a united Ireland that you see how clear these divisions are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Well you are calling people exclusionary nationalists if they never voted sf but say they intend to next election. But they are the 'sectarian extreme'? Someone who voted for sdlp or FG or other? You've an odd take on the North.

    Especially considering in the south we saw so many vote SF for the first time last election.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭eire4


    I would tend to agree with that. Just like brexit itself brought Irish reunification closer IMHO I think that would be another move that would have a similar effect. Having said that when push comes to shove I don't think London will do that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭BringingSexyBack


    Not to mention all those cushy jobs in the various Civil Service Departments around the country . Some of them will have to go as the North have similar Departments and to keep them happy, they will probably get to hang onto their "jabs". Are we looking at a bloated civil service (arguably already bloated)

    Then you got the number of TD's in National Parliament. We won't need 200 or anything like it . Which Southern County is willing to take a reduced quota of TD's or being banied together with another county , or half a county ? Inishowen / Letterkenny go in with Derry / Strabane ? Sligo - Leitrim with bits of South Donegal ? etc etc

    These "small" concessions add up when power and influence are drained away

    Will Cork , Galway and Limerick be prepared to be second fiddle to Derry and Newry ? One assumes and expects that Belfast would be the Second city . And what of Dublin ? Will they be keen on being told to hold back and let Belfast campaign for contracts and big business to go their way ? Hardly



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,232 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    These are the practical selfish issues that come to the fore once you get beyond the boys wrapping the green flag round them.

    Wait until the row over local government with the Shinners wanting to reinstall county councils up North.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Why? There'll be jobs for 'our own' coming out their ears. Committee on reconciliation, boards to see the change over. A new board of health, Public works. There'll be plenty of our tax and EU money to go around the cronies. Also I'd imagine the same civil servants will be needed.

    Politicans try get business for their areas. Nobody tells a politician trying to get a factory in cork moved to Dublin ffs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,067 ✭✭✭trashcan


    I don’t know about a United Ireland, but your proposed “third way” is certainly wishful nonsense. No longer a binary choice ? Yes it absolutely is, and will remain so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭BringingSexyBack


    LOL.


    These issues WILL be serious central points in deciding the case

    Selfish ? What ? Why would the people of the areas that I mentioned wish to give up their power and influence to a group who mainly hide under the bed during 1916-1922?

    Considering your typical Shinner probably contribute next to nothing to society in terms of enterprise (not talking about selling dodgy cigarettes and diesel btw) or community action, they have some nerve to waffle about "selfish".

    Why would Southerners sell themselves and risk economic oblivion ? And for what? To have a tiny minority dictating to us ? Both communities being as worse as the other

    I have read some total BS earlier threads about how we owe it to Nordies to unite. LOL. Most of us in the South have little to nothing in common with people of Donegal , Monaghan and the 6 counties. There are thousands who have never stepped foot in the North, bar maybe drive through , and do not really have much intent or interest in doing so. Even Donegal , loads of Southerners haven't gone near the place. Many of those areas have more in common , culturally and economically, with Glasgow than people in Cork, Dublin or Galway -

    so how are we been selfish ? We owe them nothing . And what are we going to get out of this Unification ? Sweet FA



  • Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭BringingSexyBack


    "no body tells a politician trying to get a factory in Cork moved to Dublin ffs"

    Very naive lol! Dangle a cushy Dáil committee seat or better, a Ministerial office, in front of them and see their objections to government decisions melt away .

    Some TD's have lost their seats because they supported government decisions on the closure of army barracks - said barrack being the main employer in the home town of said Politician. He was more worried about keeping his Ministerial job.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I'd leave things as they are, however that's not so easy with UK and Brexit.

    The best solution is to have the border as transparent and as invisible as possible, both countries in the EU and adhering to the Good Friday Agreement. However that's all not so easy now with Brexit.

    The main concern I would have with a united Ireland is that Northern Ireland and the complex society up there would very soon be a problem for the government in Dublin. A united Ireland would certainly be ruled from Dublin, not from Belfast. Let's assume, just for the exercise, that the government in Dublin would decide on something which provokes the UDF or the UFF in some way, and they would start riots or other terrorist acts in Dublin, or elsewhere on the soil of the now Republic of Ireland? Or Orange men marching in Dublin? I think that would be pretty nasty and a very very high price to pay just for unification.

    And then as you correctly mentioned, the SF voters in the North are too far on the left, too socialist in thinking and then all these unionists who used to vote for Ian Paisley back in the days, - all very problematic, I think. It's a society the current Republic of Ireland can easily do without.

    Yes, it's a nice and even a romantic idea to re-unite Ireland, however there are grave risks and also financial concerns. And Northern Ireland and the society in the North is like a problematic child whose both parents don't want to be responsible for, - currently it's the UK's responsibility. I take it if the UK could and it was London's only choice, not Belfast's choice, they would get rid of Northern Ireland as well.

    I would imagine that in 20 or 30 years things are different, with a different generation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Lol none of this relates to my point rotfl lol.

    There isn't and won't be a move to deprive areas of Ireland from industry to favour Dublin just because its Dublin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Let's not upset the terrorists?

    If the seat of government is Dublin, each area will have representatives from that area. If its a DUP stronghold, the DUP will be representing them. Belfast doesn't rule the North now.

    Its not nice or romantic, its decent. We left them their to suffer because it suited vested interests on both sides. You talk like the last hundred years was merely an inconvenience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I'd say, before you do all that, you need to weed and root out the UFF and the UDF first. Terrorists would have no place in a united Ireland. Also the SF would have to go as with the Brits completely gone from the island, Ireland would be "among ourselves" and SF would lose any justification other than their senseless socialist ideas. That would be the decent thing to do, if it's realistic and possible, it's another debate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    All you need is more people to vote for it than against it. The conflict/troubles was about one element with the backing of the British state, treating the other communities like dirt. It was undemocratic also.

    A UI would see everyone treated equally, at least the public anyway.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    A democratic referendum would have to be the basis of this.

    I think ultimately Ireland will unite at some point, it's more only a question when this is going to happen rather than if. May it'll be 10 years, may it'll be 20 years, I don't know.

    It's just a logical result out of Brexit. And when it happens, I hope it will all be peaceful.



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