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2022 In Between Grand Slam Thread

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Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    So what do we reckon at this stage, is he staying or going?

    Tbh I don't really know what the sentiment in Australia is, but surely the fallout of letting an unvaccinated tennis player who missed a deadline stay would be worse than that of having him deported?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭Girly Gal


    I'm fairly certain he'll be let stay now, I'd be astonished if they sent him home at this stage, but, nearly everything in this fiasco is astonishing so anything is possible I suppose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,218 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Would probably have been the case before the court case. But now that a court of law has found in his favour, it's no longer as simple as whether he needs to be vaccinated or not to get in. There's now the potential optics of legislature riding roughshod over the judiciary to be considered. I don't recall the judge highlighting any deadline Djokovic missed, but I might have missed that. The judge did say, "what more could this man have done?", so I don't think in the eyes of the court any deadline was missed.

    To answer your question, I think he's staying, at least for tomorrow, but if the Morrison govt before the start of the AO think a majority of the public would want him gone, they'll deport him. But once the AO begins, he's there until he loses.



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    The deadline which was only a self-imposed deadline by Tennis Australia is a non-issue really.

    All the judge did was rule that Djokovic was pressured and didn't get sufficient time as per procedure to consider things at the airport when his visa was cancelled.

    A procedural thing.

    He didn't make any judgement on the entry requirements.

    The government through the immigration minster can just can him home if they want.

    I imagine that will come down to some calculation on political capital vs fallout

    @Josip Any chat in Serbia about Djokovic's positive test and photoshoots etc?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭redlad12


    He won't address it. Just to correct the test was completed at 1pm that day and the result returned on 8pm that day. Source - document his legal team supplied and multiple news sources.



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    he'll be asked about it ad nauseum unless he addresses it

    will have to wait until the next tournament press conference from wherever he plays in next for that

    I know the lab test was completed at 8pm - it was at the top of my post :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,218 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Quite similar to here. There a lot of people in Serbia that don't like Djokovic and the last week would have seen a doubling down of existing positions.

    • Many Serbs are suspicious of Djokovic because he doesn't eat meat.
    • His attraction to Rasputin-like gurus (Imaz and Jafarieh) is also a cause for concern.
    • According to my nephew, young people don't like him and only people over 40 support him. But that's anecdotal and maybe my nephew is hanging out with the wrong crowd.
    • Many are critical of his tennis centre. He got a lot of grants from the govt for it, as long as he brought in big tournaments. He employs his family to run it. Some of the nepotism claims might have a basis, but most people would accept that Djokovic feels an immense debt to his family for everything they sacrificed for his career, both parents and siblings. It's also a reason why he won't criticise his father for his more inane utterances.
    • Critical of his family, or to be more specific, his father and his uncle who apparently is worse. His mother is generally considered to be normal, as is Jelena. Jury is out on Djorde but my son thinks he's sound because he gave him a fist bump last summer. Farage inviting himself in and the family not telling him to fcuk right off does get a lot of criticism.
    • He would get a lot of support because of his strong religious beliefs.
    • He would get a lot of support, and some criticism, for his bigger Balkan view of things and not just focusing on Serbia. That's in no small part due to his mother being a Croat. This again would have been a factor in the ill-advised Adria tour. As with a lot of things Novak, motivation-good, thinking-it-through-bad.
    • He gets no more criticism than anyone else over there for not taking a vaccine. Only half the country is vaccinated, there's a lot of vaccine hesitancy, so it's a lot easier to be a holdout over there than over here.
    • I haven't heard any criticism for him not wearing a mask for the awards. The tennis community is very supportive of him, he gives loads of his time encouraging the sport and for those kids at the awards, it would have been the highlight of their year. Most teenagers in Serbia have naturally contracted Covid by now. I doubt if he was the only one in that photo Covid-positive, if he even was. The Chinese vaccine provided much less protection that Pfizer or even AZ so even those who were vaccinated were contracting the strain before Delta.
    • The stamp ceremony was on the 16th, but the photos were uploaded on the 17th. I have the stamp (and every Serbian/Yugoslav stamp back to 1963)
    • He gets a lot of criticism when he loses; a lot of Serbs changed from being supporters to being critics when he had his slump.
    • As with all countries, you have to be cautious about what you read in the media and where you read/hear it. Most of the media is state (Vucic) controlled although for something like this, they wouldn't bother exercising much control. The rags will nevertheless try to whip up outrage wherever they can. The biggest tabloid there ran a headline that "Nadal doesn't want Djokovic to play in the AO" whereas what Nadal actually said was complimentary towards Djokovic.




  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    Noises that the Australians may string it out another day instead of making a decision today.

    Must be looking at/ doing some more online polls!



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  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    Tomic decides to tell the umpire mid-match in his qualifying loss that he thinks that he will test positive for Covid.

    Will there be an outbreak of pearl-clutching?



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,034 Mod ✭✭✭✭whiterebel


    Judge seemed to have his mind made up when he heard the lack of time provided to answer the questions raised. Thats probably the treatment any of us would have received if it had happened to us. I don't think he even got to hear the about late application and the rest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,130 ✭✭✭jacool


    Two interesting nuggets from the BBC update today.

    Djokovic will have further questions to answer about his Australian travel declaration, which all passengers have to complete three to seven days before arrival. It states he did not travel in the 14 days before his flight to Australia, but he moved between Serbian capital Belgrade and Spain in that time. Immigration minister Alex Hawke is still "thoroughly considering the matter", an Australian government spokesman said.

    From the ATP : "More broadly, ATP continues to strongly recommend vaccination for all players on the ATP Tour, which we believe is essential for our sport to navigate the pandemic. This is based on scientific evidence supporting the health benefits provided and to comply with global travel regulations, which we anticipate will become stricter over time. We are encouraged that 97% of the top 100 players are vaccinated leading into this year's Australian Open."

    I'd say we could soon be looking at Djokovic as the Most "Winningest" Player Of All Time, but not Greatest Of All Time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭cannonballTaffyOjones


    Gas ... I have never seen so much coverage of Djokovic from RTE ... he wins his 9th Australian open - appears as a mention after Rugby, GAA, Racing and tiddlywinks ...

    Wins FO .. barely a mention, same with Wimbledon - maybe articles copied from Reuters on their page, and they still manage to get the score wrong.


    Covid related !!! - wall to wall coverage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,175 ✭✭✭Royale with Cheese


    Meanwhile, Emma Radacanu gets her season up and running with a 6-0 6-1 thumping by Rybakina 😮



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    Emma Radacanu seems a very pleasant girl and all as I said times before but I quickly spotted her very limited game and obviously other players and their coaches would be far more aware of that than me.

    Unless she can add a good bit more to her arsenal I think personally that it's going to be difficult for her to make an impression on tournaments "going forward".

    Big big challenge for her new coach in terms of that.

    I hope for her sake that she quickly locked in some of those "set-for-life" sponsorship deals and that they don't have too many performance-related clauses in them.

    Just shows the state of things, being a slam holder.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,218 ✭✭✭✭josip


    I suspect that a few Instagram histories for the 14 days preceding travel to Australia are being wiped today by players/entourage in Melbourne for fear they will become collateral damage like Renata. Although she could have chosen to be vaccinated, I feel sorry for her. Identical status as Djokovic but because of a difference in process, he might still get to play in the AO, whereas she won't and probably never will again considering her age and ranking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,945 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Nick Kyrgios tested positive for covid today. As you would expect with a pro athlete, he is not sick. He may be out of the AO now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,357 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Strange story about Bernard Tomic who was playing in the qualifiers. Seems very critical on the lack of PCR tests.




  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    Yes harsh on her. She only used the process that she was informed about and followed all the guidelines.

    It's not just a question of not having the resources that Djokovic has either in terms of hiring the legal guys - by the time the Australians "retrospectively" picked her up if she decided to appeal it would have been too late by the time the hearing etc came around.

    She said this herself.

    “I did everything they asked me to do. Apparently, Tennis Australia has misled us, which is annoying,” she said.


    She said it was impossible to follow in Djokovic’s footsteps and launch a bid to stay in the country and the tournament.


    “I would have to ask for another visa and wait for a week, locked up in a hotel, without training,” Voracova said.


    “It doesn’t make sense. So I’m waiting for a permit (to fly out of Australia) on Saturday perhaps.


    “I would like them to let him (Djokovic) play. We are athletes, we have come here to play tennis and not to deal with disputes behind the scenes.”

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    I know that Osaka pulled out of a match after a couple of wins following a 4-month layoff to ease back in she said but aside from that her attitude seems to have turned a corner to one that seems more realistic and sustainable for her case for remaining in tennis over the longer-term in fairness (if she can actually stick to what she's saying here of course).

    She has actual proven ability over a number of events (at least on some surfaces, room for improvement) and if she can stick to this policy there might be more success out there and a much-needed assist in upping the general quality

    Quoted on the WTA website after the victory over Cornet, Osaka said: “I only really have one major goal this year, and it’s completely unrelated to results and stuff like that.


    “For me, I just want to feel like every time I step on the court I’m having fun. I can walk off the court knowing that even if I lost, I tried as hard as I could.


    “Also, I have a goal in the pressroom, that I’m never going to cry again, so hopefully that works out in my favour.


    “I’m the type of person that cared a little bit too much about the results and the ranking and stuff like that and I just need to find a way to enjoy the game again. Because that’s the reason why I was playing in the first place.”




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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    I always find it strange when RTE give tennis any kind of coverage. I doubt a lot of research goes into it, they once had Osaka as 'Naomi Oska' 😬 They were even talking about the Djokovic saga on Claire Byrne last night! Djokovic has truly made it.

    Disappointing first outing from Raducanu, but Rybakina is a tough opponent to open your season with, and particularly when she lost a couple of weeks training due to testing positive/isolation requirements etc. Raducanu is obviously a bit of a mystery right now, due to the unprecedented nature of her US Open win nobody really knows her true level. Top 50? Top 100? Time will tell I guess.

    I don't expect a whole lot from her this year, there's a lot she'll have to get used to, and particularly under such a lens. As I've said before, I just hope she's got a good team around her and she's well-insulated from all the sh*t that's inevitably going to come her way this year.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭Slashermcguirk


    I think what Raducanu achieved at US open was incredible. However lets not forget she didnt beat a single top 10 player throughout that tournament. She did indeed beat plenty of very good players but none were top 10. I know others on here will disagree with me but I also think the quality of women's tennis right now is very poor. I dont think I have seen a worse top 10 in my life time. You look at players even from 2000 - 2010 in their prime like Serena, Henin, Clijsters, Hingis, Venus etc. Raducanu could only beat who was in front of her but she wasnt up against any world beaters.

    I think the coming year will be a real challenge for her with the spotlight on her. She will need the right people around her thats for sure. She has the potential to kick on but challenging times ahead. I just wonder where the next 'Great' women's player will come from, there is not one single rivalry that I can think of at the top of the women's game.

    You look at the Men's game and you even take Djokovic, you could argue he has a very good rivalry against any number of players:

    Nadal, Federer (injuries aside), Medvedev, Zverev, Thiem, Tsitsipas



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    Raducanu hasn't beaten anyone inside the WTA top 100 since the US Open.

    If the Top 10 is not up to much, well you know where that leaves players 100+



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    Will have to see how this Djokovic test plays out

    There are contradictory views on this IT / QR Code stuff at the moment.

    Would be mad if he actually faked a test result - that would be some risk to take!

    Talk about being under a microscope.

    Also it's a bit of joke really that is ahead of pretty much everything in world news - Tennis has never been on the front page for an entire week's news cycle like..... ever?

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,729 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    At this stage and after all this, who cares.......let him play now....



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    will have to see - it's all in the balance with the Australian politicians and their dubious motives.

    no matter how much one might hate Djokovic you'd have to have some desire to see some of this story play out on the courts of the Australian Open 2022.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    I feel it's gonna have some impact either way. Djokovic plays, hell be roundly booed for at least his first couple of matches. He doesn't, well, think we'd have a few angry Serbians showing up in Melbourne Park.

    I'd be shocked if he's sent home at this stage though, I think the longer they leave it the worse it potentially looks for the Australian government.



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    Doubt Djokovic would have "that much" of a chance of winning if he plays so could be "safe" even for the Djokovic antagonists lol

    Even for someone as resilient as he is this is all an unbelievably disruptive, distracting and draining experience and still ongoing and would keep going on and on

    But seeing at least a match or two or three would be surely interesting

    Having a group of Aussie Serb first-gen or descendants get unruly in Melbourne would lose its lustre after about 10 minutes



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,729 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Why couldn’t he go far? He’s world number 1. He won’t suddenly become an ordinary player due to this fiasco.

    the chap didn’t get to where he is without serious self belief

    He’ll be a contender no doubt at this tournament

    who’s to say that this affair hasn’t given him an extra surge of hunger and commitment



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  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    I'm throwing a bone to the ill-wishers lol

    but seriously, you can't pretend that this wouldn't have a massive effect, even on Djokovic

    you might think that he's the type of guy to channel this stuff into play and he is I would agree but still you can't know what the effect of the scrutiny etc is (and it's not going away)

    if he got to play (I'm putting it at 60-40 against him playing as the Aussies just like to go for the decision that lets them think "we've won", even in the face of logic or not) I wouldn't be thinking that he could win until he got to the second week at least



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    Not convinced on the QR code and IT stuff as of yet from the latest on that->

    1. unix timestamp date only refers to the date it's downloaded - so the 26th of December is just the date it was downloaded. other people with tests from there have confirmed this
    2. the possibly more damming database ID of the later (Dec 22) negative test being lower than the ID of the Dec 16th positive test is not conclusive as tests from October from the same system also have ID's higher than the December 22 negative test

    (replies)




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭Girly Gal


    I'd agree regarding women's tennis over the last decade or so has been poor, up until the last few seasons all Serena had to do was basically turn up in any reasonabe shape and she'd win a slam. The top 10 has probably never been as poor, but, I think the gap between the top 10 and players closer to 100 has never been as small. I would say that while the top 10 is poor, outside of the top 10/20 womens tennis has more strength in depth the lower down the rankings you go compared to 20 years ago, in other words I'd say players ranked around 100 now are probably stronger than players ranked around 100 were 20 years ago. I think the combination of these two factors ( poor top end & stronger lower end) makes it a lottery to predict women's tennis at the moment.



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,218 ✭✭✭✭josip


    I would have thought that not traveling for 14 days prior to entry to Australia was a requirement to get a visa? In which case, completing that part incorrectly is a fairly significant administrative error. I think that there are multiple grounds on which the Australians could now kick him out, if the political will is still there.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Novak is now claiming that he didn't know he was positive when he attended the awards event on the 17th with a load of kids, but that he did know on the 18th when he did the L'Equipe interview. He claimed he didn't want to let the journalist down. He told them nothing about being covid positive. That is disgraceful.

    His claim about being unaware on the 17th is dubious too, considering the test result was returned at 8pm on the 16th.



  • Registered Users Posts: 695 ✭✭✭lostcat


    Well, as he is still there based on a 'procedural' lapse, it would be hard to argue if he gets kicked out based on a procedural lapse of his own. The non-isolating thing, while not relevant to the visa, may nudge public opinion sufficiently against him that the Aussies feel comfortable kicking him out now, it didn't look likely before this.

    One would have to wonder about the advise/guidance he gets from his inner circle, if he takes any guidance at all. Its one lapse of judgement compounding another at this stage., and that's putting it extremely mildly.



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    Either way the Australians should get on with it tbh.

    This "story" is dragging on at this point and needs to be moved on.

    He says his agent filled in that for him but it's obviously an error, even if I'm not sure what practical difference it makes.

    Just end this stalemate aspect now on the part of the Australians.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,130 ✭✭✭jacool


    Yes, well he probably can say that he assigned the checking of the test results to the guy that he has thrown under the bus for "inadvertently" ticking the wrong box where it asked about travelling in the previous 14 days! Human error apparently. There are too many loose strings in the story now. I would say the Australians are well within their rights to eject him now. If you drew a timeline of the moving goalposts in this entire scenario, it just looks worse and worse for Djokovic. Too many inconsistencies to accept.

    Ryanair wouldn't even allow him on a flight now!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭redlad12


    I think it would be fair enough to turf him out at this stage to be honest. I doubt they'll do it though. Has he gone down in your estimation out of interest? He will have seriously tainted his legacy. Tennis rarely makes headline news and this story has been headlines non stop across the world.



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    Hasn't covered himself in glory obviously. As said getting a bit bored with the dragging out now.

    Australians should move it to the next stage by either going to deport him or not. Djokovic would then either go or get his lawyers to apply for an injunction.

    Shouldn't have done the interview even if was done with masks but there you go he has addressed it and said he did.

    Plenty were saying that he wouldn't address it and would delay and say nothing.

    Well he didn't fake his test despite the German paper putting out that rubbish that they had to bactrack on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭McFly85


    Expect him to be turfed out now and rightly so. That statement from him was farcical. Claimed to take a PCR test because he was massively cautious, but not cautious enough to get the results until a day after it was made available or cautious enough to even mention it to l’equipe, or anyone he had been in contact with.

    He has no intention of abiding by any state rules, so he should be treated accordingly.

    I would say this will have a lasting damage to his image. If he doesn’t play here I can’t see him being able to play in France.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭Slashermcguirk


    Djokovic has brought much of this on himself but I would agree Australian authority needs to make a decision. Lets be honest, if they were to thoroughly investigate every player, I have no doubt there are other secrets out there between invalid travel declaration forms, covid positive tests, travel within 14 days of getting to Australia etc.

    This all comes down to one thing really, they should have just said fully vaccinated or no play. Had they done so none of this would ever have happened and there wouldnt be this huge mess.

    They have a huge decision to make, either they presumably try to convince Djokovic to leave or they take the nuclear option and deport him. That is a complicated decision because if they choose that route, i think he is banned for at least 3 years and he will no doubt have played his last match at the Australian Open. I think they normally only reject a visa at this level in the event of someone being seen as a risk to Australia and its people. Is that the case here?



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    Apparently the three year aspect could be waived. Either way get a move on.

    Don't think that there is any more to be learned at this point.

    If djokovic had omicron then he'd be in a better position than the other players who could easily test positive like kyrgios has done because it's so contagious.

    Him being the last is highly unlikely.

    People going on about Djokovic not playing in other slams is magical thinking.

    He will be at RG, that I'm certain of.



  • Registered Users Posts: 695 ✭✭✭lostcat


    I think there's lasting damage to his reputation now, unfortunately for him. It was said a while back on the thread that he isn't an anti-vaxxer, maybe in his heart he isn't but we have to judge him on his actions in the absence of the ability to read his innermost thoughts.

    He has by his actions been well and truly been duct-taped to a variety of groups now, from ultra-nationalists to anti-vaxxers to anti-maskers to libertarians to , god-help-us, Nigel Farage. There's no walking this back with an instagram story or two.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,218 ✭✭✭✭josip


    I don't get the pre-occupation with Djokovic's 'reputation' and 'legacy'. He's a tennis player, not the pope, and will be judged almost entirely on what he won rather than on morals. Is Steffi Graf remembered for her tax evasion or for her 22 Grand Slams?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,130 ✭✭✭jacool


    Tongue in cheek now, but you could represent him. You were asked one question, you quoted it, but you didn't answer it.



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    Can't seem how any true anti vaxxer would organise a vaccine drive like he did at the Serbian open this year.

    He will go on playing tennis and there is more ammunition for anyone who wants to cast him as a villain after this forensic examination.

    Maybe he will go get a vaccine or maybe he won't have to depending on how the pandemic plays out. With Omicron ripping through the boosted and vaccinated he's not going to be spreading anything more than anyone else and now has recent immunity on top.

    He's a complex individual but not the devil incarnate like some of the fake moraliser extraordinaires would make out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,945 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Djokovic will disappear from the headlines and political junkies will move on to something else.

    Sports is a refuge from politics for a lot of people. They go to tennis, soccer and GAA to get away from the endless stream of controversies, accusations and bickering.



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    I answered it.

    So what did Djokovic do to you exactly - didn't give you a tip or what?

    Give us some better details on how he "wronged you"

    How was he so arrogant or whatever?

    Maybe he just didn't like the vibe off you or the cut of your jib?

    Or shock maybe he was just having a bad day with the wife or a busy time with a lot on his mind.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


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