Religion and Engaging with the Teacher

Find me a kid that doesnt like christmas and the nativity play.

People are making too big a deal of this, either choose convenience and accept the above, or stick to your beliefs and find an alternative. Its not as if any of this is a surprise to anyone. And how much of this is going to stick with kids if it isnt being reinforced at home?

Accepted yes, everyone applies to a school and you either get accepted or not. Why would you take issue with that.

And if you have a set of minority beliefs then you either do as you did or you drink the kool aid. If they are super important to you then you'll know what decision is right for your family.

The irony is nowadays the most dogmatic people are those that are anti religion, most people have enough the be getting on with without letting this kind of thing work them up.

Because they are in a huge minority thats why. If their heritage is that important to them im sure they make their own arrangements.

How about the 'plausible reason' of 'it can't be done' as evidenced by the fact that you can't come up with a single example of it actually having been done in living memory. Clearly, every non-catholic parent in the country is 'just too lazy' to take on a 20-year community fundraising project with uncertain outcome.

Take it whatever way you like Andrew , you can't accommodate everyone all the time, when the vast majority identify as one thing and are happy enough to go along with the charade then you can't accommodate the other 10 percent that are made up of dozens of different belief systems so anyone with any sense just gets on board with the system as it is and if there particular man in the sky is that important to them they can look into all that in their own time.

I see you will be delighted with the double bank holiday this year for st Patrick's day. The government have also decided to give recognition to women as well. We are goint to have a new Bankholiday in 2023 on 1st February....St Bridgit Day. If you join the army you wear the boots. when in Rome do as the Romans do. and all that.

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As you are fond of saying yourself - "Nonsense".

Report the accounts if you want.

They actually could accommodate ALL pupils relatively easily, but they're not arsed to do it.

Educate yourself dude. The mechanisms and options are there in black and white: https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/primary_and_post_primary_education/going_to_primary_school/ownership_of_primary_schools.html

I'm wasting my time giving you this information anyway. The fact that you haven't bothered your arse even to do basic research confirms you're hardly going to get off your arse to do anything positive.

No need to thank me. I wouldn't be expecting anything.

So which of the schools in your list were paid for by the patron?

I think you've fallen for too much facebook guff. You are operating in a free market. Nobody forces you to live in a particular area or to attend a particular school (you can actually even home-school your children if you want to!!). You choose where you want to live and you choose what school to send your child to or what school not to send them to.

There is a Constitutional right to education. Which is why the State provides teachers. The teacher gets paid regardless of whether they teach in a religious or non-religious school (once that school is properly certified and approved). If the State builds a school, it owns the school. If another body builds the school, it owns the school. If the State proposes to build a school, it has an open call for potential patrons to apply for it. A parent may be any religion, or none, and send their child to the local Catholic school because they like the school. That parent pays tax. It isn't your right to decide to over-ride the Constitution and say that his child shall not receive the same funding as every other child who attends a public school. You don't get to discriminate based on your own intolerances.

You have your set of beliefs. If you build your magical Atheist school then sure a Flying Spaghetti Monsterian can move into your area and use your argument that the government is using taxpayer money to fund your beliefs in a school rather than what they believe to be the real truth - Flying Spaghetti Monsterism.........so you're gonna have to hand over your school........

You think i care whether the schools are taken out of church patronage?? i couldnt care less, but it just proves you arent reading my posts. Like i said i dont really care what man in the sky you believe in, but personally id rather get on with things than see injustice everywhere because its all a load of nonsense really.

Assumption A: that a more suitable school further away, but still within reach, exists. Most parents both have to work and driving kids about for hours every day is madness.

Assumption B: that this school has enough places available to admit all applicants from within its catchment area, because you're outside it so will be right at the bottom of its admission policy criteria.

Most ETs are already oversubscribed from within their own catchment area so there is no chance of a child living in an adjacent area which has no ET getting in. None whatsoever. But people still keep putting this forward as a "solution".

10 per cent? So you're claiming that Catholics make up 90% of the population now?

Meanwhile, back in the real world, only 78% bothered to tick Catholic on the last census, and that figure includes OAPs. Most parents (even among those whose children do communion and confirmation) don't regularly attend church and clearly don't regard the Catholic faith as very important in their lives beyond a nice day out for the kids. You'll spot them on the day at the mass, not having a clue when to stand up or sit down because they haven't been to church since they were a child themselves.

Most marriages taking place in Ireland are now non-religious. What makes you or anyone else think that these future parents want a school system dominated by religious ethos schools which indoctrinate during the school day?

Please don't lie. Where did I say that I should be allowed to over-ride the Constitution and discriminate against non-Catholics? Did I say that non-Catholics should be excluded from Catholic schools? Did I say that State funding for teachers in non-Catholic schools should be removed (The converse of that was proposed by another poster who wants to deny State funding to any child that attends a Catholic school). I have repeatedly said if Catholics/Jewish/Muslims/Athiests/Flying-Spagetthi-Monsterans want to get their act together and get a proper structure in place and support for a school then they should be given support. But the don't get to sit on their arses and steal the effort of others.

Nobody forces anyone to attend a school. Your own story is proof of same. There was a Catholic school near you which you didn't want your children to attend so you moved. That is free choice in action. I assume you moved to a non-denomination school. If there was a Catholic family living beside that school you moved to, it isn't discrimination against them that that school isn't Catholic. It would be discrimination if they were not allowed to attend it, or if there were different rules for State funding of Catholic schools compared to other denominations. People can moan that they can't afford to move house.....well that could be easily solved in advance by considering these things before they bought the house. Additionally, as others have pointed out, the vast majority of schools built in the last couple of decades have been non- or multi-denominational. These are often built in quickly growing areas. Which are also the areas with cheaper housing! The issue with not moving to those areas is not that they are not affordable, it is more snobbishness than anything.

Maybe a person lives in a relatively large town. They live in the older part of the town. There is a nice Catholic school beside them. On the other side of the town are all the new sprawling estates. The Educate Together school was set up there 10 years ago to cater for the massive influx of people. There are lots of immigrants who moved to the town. They have a fine new school there. But maybe Mammy doesn't want little Paddy to be mixing with the "new people". That's why they won't send them to the ET school. It's "too far away" they will pretend. Mammy has high-faluting ideas that she is special and little Paddy is special and she wants special rules made for her and everyone else should change and conform to what she wants on any given day of the week. Any child should be welcome at any of the schools.

Your argument is completely twisted. You are effectively taking the position that unless and until every single facet of education conforms to your specific desires, you are being discriminated against. If there was a single Catholic school in the country, you'd say you were being discriminated against because of its existence. That is completely self-centred madness.

So despite the fact the church is dying out, we still have almost 80% identify as catholic, 44% of marriages in 2019 were catholic.

Im not saying people want a school with a religous but most people are sensible and dont really care as long as its a good school, using words like indoctrinate and dominate shows your true colours in that regard.

what would the colour of your skin have to do with religion???

You’ve been making good, sensible arguments for the most part, but you’ve let yourself down here. You’ve essentially just said “you’re probably a racist with a viewpoint like that”, without quite coming out and saying it. Makes it seem like you’re starting to feel outmatched.