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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,968 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    It's mad to think that almost 2 years in some still don't know how to wear masks properly, a baby can walk within it's first year of life but covering a nose is too difficult for some

    I had a lad in a local supermarket yelling at me before Christmas in a case of mistaken identity, mask down by his chin. He came up to me afterwards to apologize, mask still down by his chin, felt like asking why he wears it at all if you can't wear it like an adult?



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭BuildTheWall


    Because they are irritating and limit breathing. Most people deep down know wearing it is pointless.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    This latest batch of models has been reasonably OK. They've been right on cases, with hospitals at around their optimistic model. They've also suggested we are at or near the peak of this. Where they fell down completely was on ICU; no bad thing really.



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    Is that needed or practical when a cloth covering will get about 80% of the same effect if worn correctly? No, it's not.

    You're gonna need to provide a source for this guff.

    Cloth masks are not stopping aerosol, and droplets are not an issue after a couple of meters.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




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  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    There is a distinction, as I am certain you know, between droplets and aerosols in virology.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,130 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Take the mask discussion to the mask thread



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,608 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Ah, c'mon, you're around here long enough (at least since September 😉) to do your own objective research, there are lots of papers on BMJ, Nature and the other peer reviewed sites.

    To a fault, the conclusion is always that surgical grade masks are better but that cloth masks reduce spread as well. Maybe if you do a bit of your own research, you'll be less inclined to post guff all the time (and it will be interesting to see which studies you hone in on vs. what you want the narrative to be).

    (and the 80% was top of the head, but a quick check reveals it's mostly about 50% as effective, often times higher).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭bokale


    So a mask is useful if within a couple of meters of someone then?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,028 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    (and the 80% was top of the head, but a quick check reveals it's mostly about 50% as effective, often times higher)

    So 80% was a lie then



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There is also a massive difference in scale between a virome containing aerosol droplet and a molecule of Hydrogen Sulphide. By 3 orders of magnitude. Which was the point



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    Somewhat, if someone is coughing or sneezing in close range of you, but a cloth mask will only filter out the larger droplets. Aerosols will still be able to get through and will be suspended in the air, moving with the air flow.

    Much more effective is adequate ventilation and airflow, but that doesn't suit the behavioural science aims of keeping people constantly reminded of covid.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,608 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Maybe it's not, do your own research, I'm sure the results you cherry pick to use will be revealing :) edit: and post them on the mask thread

    (This study found the filtration between cloth and surgical was about equal, so in this case, I was wrong, it's 100%, for example, but it will depend on quality of the masks and other papers and studies show differing amount of effect, one thing they all agree on is that they do have an effect and aren't just to annoy the perma-outraged "COVID-Theatre" geeks: Why We Need to Upgrade Our Face Masks--and Where to Get Them - Scientific American)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭bokale


    Yep useful for some situations so. Anyway just saw warning to drop it. But we agree anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    You don't need winky faces, I've said several times that I closed my old account and made a new one with a less important email address when Boards moved their data overseas.

    "Do your own research" is not an answer to someone asking you for a source to back up what you're saying, when you've stated with such absolute authority that "the science is pretty clear on masks".

    And poisoning the well with pre-loaded assumptions about which studies I'll choose versus "what I want the narrative to be" is not conducive to any sort of discussion. I have done "a bit of my own research". I'm asking you about yours.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    I think people who want to wear masks should, and people who don't want to should not be forced to, particularly since it seems that the overwhelming majority of omicron cases come from aerosol spread.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    @mods - the enforced wearing of masks is a restriction, and the effectiveness of them is relevant to discussion about whether or not that particular restriction should be relaxed. Why is that considered out of scope for the "relaxation of restrictions" thread?

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,976 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Seriously, are the HSE and Government expecting people to upload antigen test results and close contact information 🙄, they are surely deluded , notwithstanding the GDPR implications of a person uploading information on close contacts . This is just extraordinary 😳

    This is going to be an OmniShambles

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭bokale


    I'm fine with it being one of the last things to go. Like you say in close quarters it can help with droplets. So public transportation and moving around tight spaces it probably helps.



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,130 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    We have an entire thread dedicated to Masks. Use it

    And next time PM me. Never discuss moderation in thread



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭bokale




  • Registered Users Posts: 26,976 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Presumably and without close contacts permissions, someone takes it upon themselves to upload a 3rd parties details 🤔

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I dont see the GDPR issue. Assume I test positive. I am not permitted to share the details of people I met and when? Why?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭bokale


    Well I get what is being asked of people.. but are you saying its not gdpr compliant?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,214 ✭✭✭MOR316


    Who is that Styo Speedman gobshite on Twitter?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,214 ✭✭✭MOR316


    Friend of mine got one this morning, was sent out to her. Went to record her results/details but it's generic. There is no place to put in your name or close contacts.

    All a bit suss



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,976 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I'm primarily curious about how this is actually going to work . I'm open to correction, but it would seem government essentially going to be completely reliant on people uploading information on Antigen test results (I can not see people doing this), the question I raise re GDPR and again, I'm open to correction, people testing positive now expected to upload this information also, which seem very questionable. Let's assume I work with someone, they go and do an antigen test , test positive, the following are likely conclusions.

    A. They tell no one, Do nothing and carry on.

    B. They upload the test to HSE and upload my details as a close contact and don't say a thing to me or colleagues.

    C. They do follow these new guidelines and tell colleagues that are potential close contacts, that still doent make it right , 3rd parties details being uploaded to the HSE website is extraordinary, infact, I'll go further , as government seem now to be telling close contacts that are boosted they need do nothing, why are their details being requested to be uploaded.

    Ultimately sharing any persons details in such a manner raises in my mind, serious questions.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,074 ✭✭✭kittensmittens


    I've looked online but cant really seem to find a complete answer as to how you can get the recovery cert with a positive antigen test. Now that you dont need a pcr just a positive antigen, how do you get the recovery cert?



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,976 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    GP's also asking earlier how are they to verify antigen results if asked for certificates or letters for a host of things, travel, social welfare etc

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,074 ✭✭✭kittensmittens


    Open to correction but am I right in saying you just contact your GP, say that you have a positive antigen and they do the certificate of recovery? Seems a bit nuts



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