Starting a barista course soon what machine for home?

14-01-2022 1:33pm #1

So as per the title I’m due to start a barista course in February to October & if I’m gonna be learning the ins and outs of making coffee everyday I would also like a good espresso machine for at home.

Currently we’re working with a Sage Creastia Pro (Nespresso machine). I think I’ll hold onto it regardless, if only because it’s handy if you’re in a bit of a rush in fairness. + the Mrs likes the one touch steam wand operation and I don’t know if she’s super arsed learning to steam milk manually like I am.

So the Creastia Pro is likely here to stay. But as for a proper machine I’ve been looking at potentially sticking with Sage & going for the sort of all-in-one (espresso, steam and grinder) like the Barista Express or indeed Barista Pro. (I don’t think the dual boiler is a thing anymore? I’ve seen a lot about that too but can’t find one unless dual boiler = pro 😅).

I guess to those who own either of these machines— or something else entirely what say you? As for drinks on the daily we’d drink (well I do anyway) a good bit. Mainly during the day I’ll sip away on a latte or cappuccino but will drink espresso occasionally I just don’t care for the surge of caffeine it seems to bring on haha.

point being the machine needs to be good but not *the best* at espresso. I won’t be drinking a lot of black coffee really and mainly milk drinks especially practicing for the course etc.

oh and it would be ideal if it did include a grinder etc for space saving but at the same time it’s not a deal breaker. Function is more important than mild convenience.

Mandzhalas · 14-01-2022 7:17pm

Made same mistake 6 months ago, get separate machine and grinder. Buy best grinder you can afford and with money left get machine.

If you want something decent prepare to spend €1500

14-01-2022 7:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118476157#Comment_118476157

Really, why would you say that?

the barista express thread does mention the grinder is so-so, but I don’t think I’ve seen many outright say it’s rubbish!!

Mandzhalas · 14-01-2022 7:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118476227#Comment_118476227

Very inconsistent shots. One day it pours really nice expresso and next morning could be way off. It was real eye opener when started grinding with eureka mignon specialista - very consistent shots everytime.

alec76 · 15-01-2022 10:55am

I’ll stay away from Sage as far as I can. Especially when you already got one.

Go to barista course ( don’t tell them you’ve bought pod machine for €700), learn few things about the coffee first and buy machine after.

You’ll probably bin Nespresso machine anyway and if you’ll buy Barista Express you’ll be binning both .

15-01-2022 12:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118478787#Comment_118478787

damn that’s shocking to hear. I really had a much different view of the Sage stuff!

Just may I ask why exactly they’re so bad? The Nespresso machine is fine like I just want more control (especially with milk) and not to be locked into their ecosystem. Did not foresee actually wanting to make espresso and whatnot “properly” over conveniently 😂

alec76 · 15-01-2022 12:28pm

There are few “F” words in coffee snob community: Instant Coffee/ Nespresso/Delonghi/Sage …

We all did mistakes , I’ve got mine Sage and Delonghi too:)

There is no harm to buy Sage Express/Pro as first espresso machine. But you’ve already bought Sage Pod machine and going to barista school, so just as well to skip this step and buy something decent.

CalamariFritti · 15-01-2022 12:34pm

Barista Express is very good.

Once you have the beans/grind/amount/pressure right (not that difficult) you wont be able to tell the difference between yours and pro-made coffee for €3 something a pop.

alec76 · 15-01-2022 12:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118479096#Comment_118479096

There is no doubt about that, OP for instance couldn’t tell difference between Nespresso coffee and good coffee too yet. We all learn though . Of course Pro Barista could pull decent shot from Barista express but doesn’t mean he/she would like to do it.

So, OP already spent €700 on pod machine from Sage , you really would recommend to spend another €500-600 on Sage Express? This is €1200-1300 in total.

15-01-2022 12:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118476307#Comment_118476307

So the sage isn’t the issue necessarily it’s the grinder?

CalamariFritti · 15-01-2022 1:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118479185#Comment_118479185

What did I do wrong? The OP suggested buying another one themselves and was just asking for opinion on one or two particular models. I have one of those and game my opinion.

What do I know maybe OP is a millionaire?

15-01-2022 1:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118479234#Comment_118479234

I wish!!

i am fine with spending €700 on a machine if the machine is GOOD. It doesn’t have to be a lifelong investment if I get a year or two out of it before moving onto better things that’s fine by me.

If the grinder on a sage express or pro is a bit shite I’m okay with that too while starting off I can always get a new one for Christmas!

So please don’t worry so much about the costs, what I need to know is:

Are either of these machines good or not? Will it pull good (or better) espresso or does it pull shots of cat pish. It’s absolutely fine if the grinder is a bit shite as I said, for now it’ll do the job, but please also bare in mind, I’m doing the barista course, but my partner is NOT so the machine needs to be suitable for her to use also. Now she’s more of a milk steamer cos she’s not too bothered with coffee (compared to me she will have a cup or two a day) so that’s also important.

i guess the main question is not if I’ll be using this in Jan 2024 or if it’ll have seen the dustbin before then, my question is will it last longer than November to Jan cos that’s as long as it took to reconsider the Creastia Pro.

but so far

1 says yes to sage

2 say no & one of those is potentially just because of the grinder?

alec76 · 15-01-2022 1:18pm

What is the rush? Why wouldn’t you go to barista school first and make your mind later?

Or buy this , but don’t go to barista school after or you would be seriously disappointed coming back from commercial grade machine and grinders to Barista Express.

Effects · 15-01-2022 1:26pm

The pro has more grind settings than the express, but I can't remember if there's much different in the grinder.

I've been weighing the beans each time, rather than using the hopper, as I also put decaf beans in the machine.

I just got the pro on Thursday so I'm going to have to forget I read this thread. 🤣

CalamariFritti · 15-01-2022 1:40pm

Sage barista express is good. No cat pish.

Cant see anything wrong with the grinder either.

My one is still newish, got it through black friday and currently going through a lot of different beans to find my favourite. The grinder in the express is a proper burr grinder and so far every bean I threw at it I was able to find the right grind & amount to build the correct pressure. And then I went through the entire bag on that setting and it stayed consistent.

And I havent even used the alternative sieves that come with the express, the double walled ones for drier or pre-ground coffee.

I have seen reviews where they say DeLonghi is as good but makes hotter shots. Cant confirm or deny since I havent had a DeLonghi coffee yet but there is nothing wrong with Sage shot temperature either imo.

Edit: Also look out for deals. As I said I got my one during black friday and paid 460 from amazon.de. Just had to snip off the continental plug and fit a UK one.

15-01-2022 1:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118479292#Comment_118479292

id argue I’d be far more agitated after using proper machines to come home n only have the creastia pro 😂

i mean you’re probably not wrong but again I have to think of the Mrs as well. She’s not going to do the course, hasn’t got that level of interest in being a barista. Just wants the odd coffee and hot chocolate or mocha, etc.

im not trying to shoot you down either I’m genuinely interested in what you’re saying I guess I’m just unsure of the reasons you are saying this?

I’ve had two against the sage so far but the reasons for these opinions are quite unclear. What is it the Sage cant do that makes it so unattractive?

Effects · 15-01-2022 1:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118479380#Comment_118479380

I got the pro from amazon.de as well. Same issue with the plug, but would have had to do that anyway as my cable drops through my worktop to a hidden socket.

Effects · 15-01-2022 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118479406#Comment_118479406

Have you watched any of James Hoffman's videos? He has a short series, I think it's on dialling in espresso, and he says he doesn't want the hassle of it at home, so doesn't make espresso there.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMb0O2CdPBNi-QqPk5T3gsQ

fminus · 15-01-2022 2:12pm

I’ve had a Barista Express since April 2020 when I swapped to working from home. I think it’s a great piece of kit for the price.

My thoughts:

Like any other hobby interest, things can get pricey quickly. I think it’s silly to go off buying high end equipment without spending time on the craft first to learn whether you really enjoy it. For example, my partner loves good coffee - but - she hates the effort of grinding, pulling a shot and steaming milk every morning before work. An expensive machine would be wasted on someone like her. I on the other hand, relish my morning coffee ritual.

Comments above regarding limitations of the Sage grinder are on point. It’s alright but there are much better standalone grinders. That said, I find some beans play nicer with it than others - so for the working week at least - I just stick to tried and tested batches of beans that I already have dialed in settings for. So Yes: Barista Express setup can pull reliably good shots with a bit of effort.

So my two cents: if you can get a Barista Express on sale, go for it. (It will be incomparably better than anything you get from a Nespresso machine.) Learn the ropes and then sell it on and upgrade down the line when more experienced.

15-01-2022 2:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118479499#Comment_118479499

I have watched him yeah! I know he gave the barista express a positive enough shout same for Dual Boiler (which I assume is now called the Pro).

and yeah I don’t think it would be much fun to be working with coffee all day making sure it’s as close to perfect as possible, then come home and have work at home also?

15-01-2022 2:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118479503#Comment_118479503

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118479380#Comment_118479380

Thank you both— much help.

alec76 · 15-01-2022 2:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118479531#Comment_118479531

Sage Express or Sage Pro practically same machines.

Sage Dual Boiler different beast altogether and definitely way to go if you MUST buy Sage. It is almost as good as commercial grade machine , apart from cheap plastic look and build quality of course. It is about €1200 which is competitive price for dual boiler. You have to buy stand alone grinder , as Sage Dual boiler comes with out it.

Hoffman is great coffee influencer and Barista World champion , not sure if advertising Sage equipment free of charge though.

15-01-2022 5:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118479566#Comment_118479566

Ahh I see!

thanks for that - more food for thought 😂

Did not expect this to be as much thinking 😂

murphyebass · 16-01-2022 7:13pm

Buy a gaggia classic second hand for what about €150 on adverts or wherever and then spend as much as you can possibly spend on a grinder. It’s the important part.

People ALWAYS make the same mistake at the outset spending stupid money on a machine and nothing on a grinder and wonder why their shots are terrible or at the very least madly inconsistent.

Dont buy those all in one safe yolks for the love of Christ. You will regret it. Maybe not right away but when you realise how inconsistent it is and then that you have all your eggs in one basket with no room to move cause they’re stuck together. Ugh

DaveyDave · 17-01-2022 5:17pm

If you're set on Sage get a good grinder and a Bambino. Bambino will do everything the Barista Express will but without the built in grinder. If you just get a Barista Express you'll find yourself spending a few hundred on a separate grinder down the line like I did. So while a separate grinder + espresso machine will be a bit more expensive up front you'll save yourself a ton of hassle, plus the inevitable cost of buying a new grinder to not have to use the Barista Express one.

17-01-2022 9:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118490273#Comment_118490273

Ah, I don’t really wanna go with anything using an automatic steam wand tbh. The creastia has one & besides just being boring cos you just set the temp and “foam level” press the button and wait. There’s no control (or indeed practice potential) with them. I’m also fairly limited in the jug (or pitcher if you rather) size I can use with automatic wands especially on a small machine like that.

theres also the thing that this machine is barely cheaper than a BE & it does include a grinder, which obviously I’m paying for in the price, but I wouldn’t even use it if I buy a different one. That’d be grand, but the steam wand :(

I think honestly for the extra €100 I might as well, if I venture down the sage route get the BE. It’s presumably at least better for grinding, definitely for steaming cos manual (yay) and I imagine on par or better for pulling shots. The Barista Pro in fairness does sound a bit more worth the time n investment if I was dead set on Sage (not sure given the mixed replies but who knows) in the sub €1k bracket.

The trouble is there’s certainly better machines in that price range (up to €1k) BUT I have to factor in a grinder. So that’s kinda where I’m stuck, at the minute. As I understand anyway, the BE/BP are fine machines, maybe good, but that’s about it. They’re not great or excellent, largely down to the grinder I suppose?

But while there’s better machines & grinders, which combined would be the same price roughly as buying a sage BE/BP & a good/great grinder, which then leaves me with the choice of

Buy a BE or BP & in the future buy a better grinder, potentially some time after that upgrade the machine & have by the end spent we’ll say €2,000 altogether
Spend €1500 or so on a great machine AND grinder saving €500-700 extra on a BE or BP. Effectively skipping a stopgap solution in favour of not waiting a little longer or whatever. Bearing in mind, I did waste money on the Creastia Pro, but in saying that it’ll prob be either sold on adverts for some of the money back or kept for when we’re rushing or the Mrs or I wants milk for something (hot chocolates or whatever) and doesn’t feel like manually texturing the milk.

My other I guess prevailing thought is I’m due to start this court next month & while completely unnecessary it would be handy to have some level of practice pulling shots etc before starting. Always nice to be starting from a place of strength!

Anyway, I have some pondering to do.

DaveyDave · 17-01-2022 10:20pm

Just a heads up, you can manually steam milk with the Bambino Plus.

alec76 · 18-01-2022 12:18am

My other I guess prevailing thought is I’m due to start this court next month & while completely unnecessary it would be handy to have some level of practice pulling shots etc before starting. Always nice to be starting from a place of strength!

Don't worry about this , it is easy to learn right from the start rather than pick up bad habits.

Don't do anything in rush . I almost guarantee you that after few lessons at barista school you won't be looking at Sage Express /Sage Pro etc . It is possible to pull decent shot with plenty of practice involved but it is entry level machines with plenty of limitations.

alec76 · 18-01-2022 12:24am

zweton · 22-01-2022 7:08pm

The Lelit Anita is a fantastic machine, i am upgrading to the Bianca only reason for selling.

fullstop · 23-01-2022 1:54pm

Would go with Simonelli Oscar, Rancilio Silvia or Lelit Anita and pair them with a good grinder (maybe Eureka Mignon Silenzio so the neighbours don’t complain 😁) rather than the Sage. The Sage reviews are always that they are a decent machine and make decent espresso, but the above all seem to be a cut above and if you’re going to the trouble and expense of a barista course, you may as well ger the most out of it.

ArcticFox · 24-01-2022 4:55pm

I have to agree with fullstop, above. As the saying goes, 'you only buy quality once'. I purchased a Rancilio Silvia for myself along with their Rancilio Rocky grinder a few years back. I liked it so much that I bought the Silvia machine for my father in law for his 70th about a year ago.

He's just picked up the Rancilio Rocky Doser grinder the other day too (which is being delivered as we speak). I'll post a review here when it arrives and I've had a chance to put it through its paces.

They're fantastic machines at that price point. If you do end up buying a Rancilio or Lelit etc then I also recommend Homecoffeemachines.ie as they're a local Irish Business (Galway), v competitive on price and the guy running it, Ciarán is knowledgeable, friendly and even provides a repair/parts service if ever required.

Hope this helps in your decision but I also agree that you should hold off purchasing anything until you've at least started your Barista course and get to grips with the machinery. Best of luck ☕️

Fiyatoe · 24-01-2022 9:19pm

hi there, do you mind sharing what course you are doing? :-)

blondeonblonde · 29-01-2022 9:57pm

Another recommendation for the Rancilio Silvia here. Have mine around a year and s half now paired with a Eureka Silentio grinder and it's a fantastic package all round. Definitely a learning curve involved but once you figure out the beans you like you'll be making coffee as good if not better than most places out there. I probably paid 850 ish overall. Before I started picking up extras like scales, distributor, bottomless portafilter... Etc. It's a rabbit hole!

The Rancilio is such a solid and well built machine though it will do you for years. If you can find one second hand you won't go wrong and you can modify them with PID temperature control if you like.

As others have said, don't skimp on the grinder either.