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Djokovic

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Comments

  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    providing link to other post again but also a quick summary ->

    if declared (prior 14 day travel) on form it would not have prevented entry for Djokovic so there is no actual motivation to lie on that aspect

    also not considered substantive enough to be addressed in government's submissions and by informed commentators

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118479514/#Comment_118479514



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    Wise up. I will never do something so ludicrous as coughing into my elbow. What an idiotic thing to do, and looks stupid too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭BurgerFace


    They let those Chinese chancers with the dried chicken feet and pickled worms enter the country after they've confiscated their stash of rotten "food" and fined them for lying about bringing in food.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,982 ✭✭✭Degag


    The important word in my post was the first one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,375 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,111 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    That would be fun, they'd soon learn the Australian armed forces aren't like the Dutch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,270 ✭✭✭jj880


    If he had COVID in December then he is low risk to infecting anyone. Is the timing of him getting COVID suspiciously beneficial to him getting a medical exemption to play the Australian Open? Damn right it is but if the pcr test documentation is in order what can be done?

    They have him on the travel declaration though so if they want they can send him packing. Judging by polls and public opinion in the last few days most Australians want him gone so I think thats what will happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭BurgerFace


    You're oversimplifying it. All these ethnic groups coexisted happily in Yugoslavia. They had their differences and the country was a bit of a tapestry but they weren't at each other's throats. You have ethnic differences in a lot of countries. In The Netherlands, Hollanders, Frieslanders and Lumburgers are always taking the piss out of each other and some plain hate each other. You have similar splits in Belgium and Germany and Baltic states. The whole Balkan War was stoked up from outside to smash to piece a natural Russian ally that was Yugoslavia. Read some books by the likes of Misha Gleny etc., for a deeper understanding rather than the stuff you get in the tabloids.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,275 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Didn't your man apply for, and receive, some special exemption.

    Do you know what the conditions for that exemption were? It would be assumed that there were some additional conditions that would not apply to regular visitors in the regular previous non-Covid world.

    One would suspect that some restrictions on his movements and travelling would form part of those special conditions that came along with the already preferential treatment afforded to him.



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  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    no you're just making that up

    the medical exemption, which 3 other people also got in respect of the Australian Open (and they were let in no problem to Australia using it) was about an exemption to vaccination

    As yesterday the Australian immigration minister Hawke himself conceded that Djokovic did in fact have a valid medical exemption that would fairly effectively cover that off (despite the fact that Australia last week cancelled his visa claiming that he did not have proof for this exemption but now they are arguing different reasons)

    you should take a look at this to get a better idea




  • Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭eddie73


    This thread is supposed to be about Djocovic, not an imaginary armed conflict between Serbia and Australia. Referencing the UN's roll in the Balkans war is a bit too far removed from the original thread don't u think?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,275 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    What am I making up?

    The man received, or availed of, an exemption. I asked you whether you knew if there were any conditions attached to same.

    From your response, we can assume that the answer is "no". You don't know.



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    Others and Djokovic were granted a medical exemption on the basis of proof provided against the criteria

    The Australian Government admitted yesterday that Djokovic had a valid medical exemption on arrival to Australia even though claimed lack of proof for same was their reason for cancelling the visa on arrival last week

    The exemption is provided on the basis of providing historical proof, which he did. The exemption was granted.

    Trying to construct a fantasy narrative about never-before mentioned anywhere ever possible conditions about future actions in addition to the historical proof required is utterly pointless



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,275 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    I think the only fantasy here is whatever obsession is in your own head.


    There are always conditions attached to any form or border crossing. A common one being that you do not give false information.



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    shockingly the finest legal minds working for the government or the minister have never brought up these future conditions on the exemption given on historical criteria in their argumentation and neither has any news outlet

    I'm taking that as a given that a) because they don't exist or b) if they do it's completely not relevant but I'd put my money on a)

    Djokovic was awarded the medical exemption because he provided proof of a recent covid infection

    the only possible future exclusion to this would be if he went back in time and didn't get Covid.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,275 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    You haven't traveled much or experienced the world if you think that there would be absolutely no requirements.

    I think I might move to Australia. I won't bother with a visa. Australian citizens don't need a visa to live there. Even though, based on your own legal advice, I now expect there to be no requirements or conditions at the border, just in case they ask, I'll have a note from me ma saying I am an Australian citizen and sure they'll let me in 😉

    One might hypothetically have imagined that one possible condition to avail of such a medical exemption would be to have legitimate proof of same. But as per Glasso immigration advice, he wouldn't even need that .... or a note from his ma


    What is not disputed is that there were lies on his immigration form.



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    you're conflating and mixing things up.

    it's a medical exemption, it's not a visa.

    maybe that is the source of the confusion here.

    I'd consider myself well travelled but that has nothing to do with anything except your insinuation that I haven't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,375 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,275 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Having a visa would not over-ride other immigration responsibilities. Which include the requirements to be vaccinated or have a medical exemption. Australia is a sovereign country and can decide its own rules however it sees fit.

    Additionally, one might reasonably suspect that, if it were found that an individual who happens to be very famous, submitted paperwork for an exemption that he was suffering from a highly contagious disease on day X, yet his social media was plastered with photos of that same person flying around the world and attending loads of different events, that it might arouse some suspicions that maybe the paperwork wasn't actually accurate and warranted further investigation.



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    as said 3 other people got into Australia ahead of Djokovic no problem using the same exemption. more people applied also.

    while Djokovic was in the air on his last leg to Australia the actual prime minister of Australia described very clearly how the exemptions work (and basically how they worked in the case of the people who got in ahead of him)

    Asked whether the world No. 1 had received an exemption, Mr Morrison said on January 5: “Well, that is a matter for the Victorian government. They have provided him with an exemption to come to Australia, and so we then act in accordance with that decision … That’s how it works. States provide exemptions for people to enter on those bases.”

    So he very clearly outlined this.

    Then Djokovic arrives and the Australian government (due to some media chat about Djokovic coming over on the exemption) decides to exempt the exemption in his case

    They (government) stopped him on the basis that he didn't have enough proof for his exemption and cancelled his visa and kicked all this off

    there was nothing about the Serbia social media stuff at that time - that came much later so at the point in time the government went out to get him for political gain it's not in the picture

    Now the government have conceded that he HAD a valid medical exemption on arrival but are using a law 113(c) that is a law that denies natural justice - so unlikely to be overcome. basically it's a "I said so and there is no comeback" type law




  • Posts: 5,869 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm the same with all forms of social etiquette, actually.......i love slamming doors in people's faces, I mean standing there holding the door like a spanner, who'd do something so ludicrous and idiotic. Looks stupid too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,253 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    People trying to defend Djokovic and who believe he's on the level, take a second to consider this.

    Previous infection isn't grounds for a vaccine exemption. Hundreds of millions of people have had Covid and vaccines. Unless there's something else in his medical history, Djokovic has no grounds for a vaccine exemption.

    However, you cannot get a vaccine for four weeks after you test positive for Covid.

    Testing positive on 16th December allowed Djokovic to say he couldn't be vaccinated ahead of the tournament. A week earlier, he couldn't have claimed that. A week later and he'd be arriving into Australia a day or two before the tournament, plus it would be obvious he had no intention of being vaxxed.

    So not only did he contract Covid at a convenient time, he did so at THE MOST convenient time possible.

    I mean, it's fishy at best.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    yeah, he lied to the immigration authorities and got caught out later on, the authorities being suspicious before hand hence the original detention.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,275 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    How many other people did or did not get an exemption has no relevance. It is up to the Australian authorities to decide their conditions for allowing or denying entry.

    Assuming he travelled on a Serbian passport, the Serbian government can take it up with the Aussies at a diplomatic level if they so wish. But they have no authority to dictate what can an cannot be done. The person himself also has no authority to do anything similar.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,469 ✭✭✭✭mickdw



    Now you maintain this is just out of spite and that they have no issue at all over his paperwork or his actions when realistically they have very valid concerns given that he lied on his travel declaration and took the absolute piss meeting people while having covid or the alternative is that his pcr result is manufactured. The Aussie government don't know and cannot know what the real situation is and as such he should not be granted access for a whole range of reasons from public health to general public interest.

    The ministers clause 113 (c) would appear to be a very valid method of ensuring he is not granted access.

    You can argue all day long that he had no reason to lie or that the Australians have no issue with his paperwork whatsoever but the reality is that they have issue with him, he has attempted to walk all over their immigration system using lie on top of lie so they don't want him in the country. I would 100 percent agree with them.

    I believe you personally had dealings with Australian immigration where an error was easily sorted. That only confirms that they are more than fair if you are straight up with them - the opposite of what Djokovic has been.

    When they see someone bullshitting, they send them home by return flight.

    Post edited by mickdw on


  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]



    they stopped him due to political motives due to media interest in him coming on the exemption - and tried to make it up as they went along

    the other people getting in ahead on exact same basis shows that

    also as shown by the original "reason" being abandoned for the nuclear 113c law and the stuff in that age article linked



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    none of this was known at the initial stage and didn't come out until later and for the nth time the 14 day travel thing is not a big smoking gun - the government didn't even reference it and there is no motivation to lie about that as it's not something that would prevent entry

    the point is that the original "stopping" was purely political and a spurious "no proof" of exemption reason picked for cancelling visa (which later the government conceded themselves was rubbish)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,275 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Glasso, it's like if I have a party and you arrive and I tell you to get out of my house. I don't need to give you a reason. You have no entitlement to be there once I tell you to get out. It's tough sh1t.



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    if that was the case Djokovic would be long gone but he's not is he (even if likely not to be able to do much about that law)

    but great work on just ignoring the obvious truth that he was targeted and screwed over

    him or the others never would have come near Australia if they hadn't been given exemptions

    then the process was just torn up for politics



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    they stopped him because they became suspicious of his claims and the evidence to support his exemption was insufficient.

    others got through because they provided sufficient evidence that they met the requirements.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,275 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    He either produced fake or misleading test results or else blatantly broke isolation rules where he was. Which do you think is a better situation?



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    that has proved to be rubbish and the government conceded the same since by agreeing that he had a valid exemption on arrival and have abandoned that track completely

    that's just the story put out "proof of exemption" because they couldn't think of what else to stop him on

    first they put out that it was a visa error then changed to proof of exemption then also that oh he only had one piece of proof - yes you only get one positive pcr test when you do a test.

    the judge also made the comment on the process that Djokovic followed and the proof

    "what more could this mad have done"

    Djokovic was screwed over

    as said he would never have been going near Australia except him meeting the requirements and being told how the process works (as the bloody PM said in the quotes)

    anyway I've made my position clear on this - little point in going on in my view



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    lack of proof is a visa error so the authorities were correct.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    he broke the isolation rules on the sports photoshoot - shouldn't have done that.

    can't argue that he wasn't wrong there

    but that is not pertinent to the Australian debacle - that was weeks before he came to Australia and in Serbia

    trying to frame it as "fooked either way" has been done to death already

    he was wrong there

    that's it

    the test has not been proven to be fake (despite proved bullshit Der Spiegel stories etc) and the Australians have accepted is as genuine



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    again - nothing to do with exemption reason put out, found a week later, wouldn't have prevented entry so no motivation for a lie there, Australians haven't even brought it up in submissions or statements because it's not considered substantive by them

    all covered off in posts already



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,275 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    The burden of proof is not on the Australian authorities to prove that something is fake.

    (He attended other events apart from that photoshoot btw)

    Australia is their country, they can let him in if they want, or revoke any permission previously granted at any later stage. Djokovic's predicament and legal standing comes down to what is known in legal terminology as "tough sh1t"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,111 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    "‘Send him home’: Poll reveals overwhelming support for decision to deport Novak Djokovic

    An exclusive survey shows 71 per cent of Australians think the defending Australian Open men’s champion should not be allowed to stay and compete.

    You can add my vote to that 71%.

    Stick him in a cage on bondi beach, retreat and wait and see if a tsunami from the Tonga eruption does hit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,375 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    He went to an in-person interview with a L'Equipe magazine reporter, one day after he had been notified of a positive test on December 17.

    Add that to all the stupid ass behaviour and arrogance you listed above and the rest that you didn't, it makes the decision of Minister Hawke not just completely understandable, but entirely necessary.

    .....under section 133C(3) of the Migration Act to cancel the visa held by Mr Novak Djokovic on health and good order grounds, on the basis that it was in the public interest to do so.

    Australia's Government has a few different roles here, among them being to protect the integrity of immigration policy, not just the letter, but the spirit.

    The Government also has a duty, as elected by the people, to ensure that there is not any avoidable disquiet, nay unrest, due to the Australian people being made to feel like total and absolute fűckimg mugs in their own land, for adhering to one of the strictest lockdown protocols in the World for all those months.

    Allowing Djokovic to remain, after all his blatantly arrogant, inconsiderate and disrespectful behaviour **AFTER** he was granted the initial exemption, is inconceivable.

    Djokovic is fűcked. He fűcked himself. He and his people. There is no other blame to be attributed here.

    Absolutely everything he has done in relation to Covid, really since the Adria tournament, is pertinent to the decision of the Australian Minister / government.

    All Governments must reserve the ultimate power of deportation - for far less compelling reasons than these by the way - and no Court is going to be able to overturn the Minister's discretion as clearly laid out in the legislation.

    Your arguments are redundant, he's being put on a plane tomorrow and he'll have a 20 hour trip home to have a decent think about his conduct these last few months.



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    that's fine, dandy, grandstanding and very easy to say until one would end up in a situation on the end of that or similar law of a rule of state where one had apparently no protection of natural justice or law

    leaving the vaccine stuff aside for a moment it's a great advertisement for a place that markets itself as a tourist destination



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  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    all too hyperbolic to engage with tbh and been through it all before

    such hyperbolae and utter fake moralising here is a laugh I have to say

    Australia never knew it had so many defenders of its borders on boards until now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,275 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    He's not a tourist. He was going there for work.


    If you travel to the US on your ESTA, it is there in the small print that you have signed away any right you might have to appeal the decision of the CBP officer. That officer has sole discretion to deny your entry. Were you to travel to the US on a visa, they could still deny you entry, but you would have a right to appeal in a court. It can happen, and it does happen. It normally wouldn't end up in the paper.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,945 ✭✭✭sporina


    @glasso have some dignity man..

    yikes



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    it can especially happen when targeted for political capital gaining exercises yep



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,275 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    They can do it for whatever reason they want. At their sole discretion. Same as me telling you to leave the party in my house.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,375 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    All too dismissive to engage on the points is it? Know you don't have any plausible argument is it?

    What everyone who is arguing against you is saying, that these principles of border control are in the gift of any Country.

    Judging by the 71% public backing of the Government decision to expel him, it seems the Aussies are quite content to back themselves here



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    no literally they have all been done before but some reason the same stuff is just posted again but some other person because they think they have something new to say but don't

    the basis presented by immigration minister Hawke along with his 113c is

    • public health - even though Hawke conceded that Djokovic is not a spread risk -
    • good order - that Djokovic is going to excite anti-vaxxers is Australia depsite him not having said anything about vaccines since they became available, organised a vaccine drive this year at the Serbian open and the fact that well over 90% of Australians are vaccinated

    neither make rational sense.

    original argument that they have completely abandoned because they conceded it was untrue


    if they wanted to keep Djokovic out they should have told him before he travelled instead of telling him yes you've got the exemption and flip-flopping and ambushing him at the border when he arrived, making up any old an argument that they abandoned later and now having to resort to a law of no natural justice recourse


    and all the the muppet PM Morrison (who is as slimy as Leo Varadkar after being sprayed with cooking oil) can even come up with is rubbish pandering about "protecting sacrifices" .

    the place is riddled with Omicron - there is nothing to protect in respect of Covid.

    He's just playing up to the average hipster muppet over there and their lack of self-awareness - "we're blocking that tennis player for the time you couldn't go out to get your coffee".

    conflating two things that have nothing to do with each other -> that very government's pandemic policy that the people endured and a fooking tennis player!

    the Australians created all this and they look like arses on the international stage



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    I know 2 Irish people heading home after years of living in Australia. She's a teacher. He works in an specialist area that requires close contact with rest of his team for long periods of time. Both professions require vaccinations.

    Both heading home to Ireland having lost their jobs.


    Their country, their rules



  • Posts: 18,962 [Deleted User]


    hun if you're saving up for a packet of popcorn you're just never going to understand Djokovic's world



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,945 ✭✭✭sporina




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