Ashling Murphy RIP - a discussion *please read the OP before posting*

Hold on..

If a woman doesn’t like it or accept it or thinks it needs criminalising, fine..that is her right.

I am saying not all women consider it to be that big a deal. And pretty much all women I bet would think that the men that do it are not try get to hurt them, scare them or intimidate them..

was the poster speaking for all women?

I think the wide and free availability of pornography is a problem. Women are treated as objects in porn and it's bound to have an effect on some people where they look down and degenerate women.

Yes. But surely this is a woman’s issue? Men hardly force them into porn

this issue is a human issue that men and women are responsible for..

First and foremost thoughts and prayers are with her family and friends at this absolutely devastating time

Iv seen a lot of talk about how the "Males" of this country need to be educated about violence against women, but would any amount of education stop something like this? Education can certainly help people joining gnags and having to resort to petty crime or drug dealing but would it stop a random Murder?

Surely these people have mental issues and not educational one?

I do agree that it can only help to speak against Violence to women so i am not against it, I just wonder in these type of case has it more to do with just a deeply sick individual,

Nobody is defending wolf whistling. I’ve never done it, but it’s getting ridiculously over-played here in an attempt to demonise men.

Vast majority men who have wolf whistled are likely decent and ordinary men. It’s male banter. Women have their own female banter. How do people propose we drive this banter out of society?

we’re getting far too caught up in the small stuff here that males do from time to time.

a woman was brutally murdered out jogging in daylight…these are the men that need targeting!!

Whoooosh .

what i said was if a woman tells you she doesn’t like to be whistled at then dont . Its that simple

The #shewasgoingforarun is so offensive to me I can’t understand why no one else is complaining about it. It doesn’t matter what she was doing it doesn’t matter what time it was. It doesn’t matter what she did for a living or how “well got” her family is. It certainly doesn’t matter how physically attractive she is or how talented a musician she is.

Nobody man or woman should have to die like that. The response has revolted me with various factions highjacking a tragedy for no other reason then to further their own agenda be it womens rights or xenophobic nationalists.

The only concern should be that anyone who would take another persons life in this manner needs to be too afraid to attempt it for fear of the recriminations and/or removed from society if they go ahead anyway.

People should not make judgements until the facts of the case are known.

Currently only one fact is known. A young girl with her life ahead of her has been brutally murdered. RIP.

Im ill at ease with this being a gender issue, I don't doubt that gender issues exist but i have not seen the proof that this is a gender issue primarily and the quick attachment of gender violence to this has only served to indirectly pass judgement on somebody who was arrested incorrectly for this crime.

Agreed. The OP exposed their own understandable subjectivity in their previous post.

The discussion should be about how we go about making everyone feel safer in society, rather than focusing on one gender. Sure the majority of murders are committed by men, but given men are victims twice as much as women, it's clear that they don't sexually discriminate, so why should we?

Well, women I know, some of them, yes! They view a wolf whistle as harmless.

Similar to yourself Beasty I am learning a new appreciation of risk.

I'm younger than you, at 42 and the appreciation of that kind of risk is new to me.

As younger man I worked doors in Limerick, ran with rough crowds played a lot of rugby and so on. At 6'5" and "burly" it never dawned on me just how much I intruded on others.

My size and my cocky probably, arrogant confidence, even without meaning to intimidate or even be aggressive often planted a seed of at least apprehension in others.

I'd love to say it has been learning from my wife or my sister's just how differently women view space and the risks perceived.

It wasn't that, it was middle age, the culmination of health issues and moving from being the "big guy" to being wary of the big guy.

Not that I worry about violence or hang out in arenas where it's likely anymore 😉 but that weird ongoing assessment of who could be a risk to me if something kicked off.

It's really strange, it's not a voice I've had in my head for long and it's new. I find it a little disconcerting. I cannot imagine having grown up with it, it having been a part and parcel of every decision.

I have intervened with friends who cross the line with women. I have been stuck in violent confrontation between people of all genders and I've stepped into place myself between women and men.

The issue of violence, yes women are very much victims of violence perpetrators. Most often that violence is from someone known to the victim. A husband, partner, ex and every other of relationship and so on. Regardless of gender equality, a woman will very often be the loser of any physical assault from a male.

Being the "weaker" sex means that when violence is visited upon a woman? The outcome is far greater and, often far more egregious for the victim.

Gendering the issue of violence, of random attacks and overall assaults does the issue of violence as a whole in society a disservice. Every Civilization has had the issue.

The violence of males and in particular young males has been written about and pondered over since Rome. From the Gracchi and the mob onto the collapse, the violence visited upon Europe and the Middle East by Christian 2nd sons, the violence of Elizabethan, Regency and Georgian England.

The issue isn't solely violence against women or Gender. It is the tendency of violence to be an outlet of those who are unfulfilled, the issue is part of the human condition.

How do we as humanity, not as western/eastern/Whatever! But, as humanity. How can we address and arrest the drive that some feel to visit violence upon others?

How can we interdict the thinking that leads one to believe that violence is a means of either exerting control or, of actualising their worth?

We need to challenge the motivations and the presentations of violence wherever we can.

Be it incels, wifebeaters, bullies or the yobs pushing and throwing digs after closing time. All need to be addressed and at least corrected. The problem is? That all too often the correction is for want of a better description?

A bigger fish, a beat down of the bully or aggressor by a bigger bully.

How do we address and more importantly, inderdict the drive towards violence?

Without perpetuating more violence?

Likewise I have daughters of similar age and a wife etc and similar concerns. But I don't think that it's our place to stop banter and flirting between the sexes. It's part of our human existence. Difficulties arise on the borderlines between what is acceptable and otherwise and even that varies by individual. But why this topic is being tied in with this appalling murder is beyond me. Opposite ends completely of the scale. This was thankfully a fairly rare event. And before someone makes up a list, think of the tens of thousands of people, many women who walk, jog, run, swim, cycle every day without being murdered.

Streetlight there was a woman murdered on christmas eve, where was the outrage then.

Seeing plenty of men need to be educated that it's not acceptable behavour, teenage boys need to go to classes.

Do these men and teenagers not have parents or a parent to teach them from the cradle how to treat another human being. This sh*t can be curtailed if they are told how to behave at home. It's not just males, females can be just as bad with wolf whistles and making the opposite sex feel uncomfortable and when they get talking about guys it goes into the gutter just as quickly as if it a gang of lads. Parents have a responsibility to raise their children with morals, they need to stop expecting everyone else to teach or control their children.

Everyone no mater what gender needs to be able to feel safe when out, need to feel safe in a relationship, should not live looking over our shoulders all the time.