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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,945 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    It also allows weak politicians (like our lot) to hide behind decisions elsewhere when it suits them - we saw it with the bailout and we continue to see it today.

    You've hit on the reason why the EU will never work as a unified State. There IS no shared history, values, culture etc to draw on (like in the US for example). Remember only 60 years ago they were at war with each other, then the Cold War tensions after that with East and West Europe. What it is now is a bloated bureaucracy that the majority of people feel no connection with, and no authority over.

    It worked as a trade body - the EEC - but once the politicians got notions of a Superstate the wheels started to come off!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,945 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    The real indicator of that will be when people stop wearing masks in retail settings. I already see a few here and there but if that becomes widespread then it really will be the end of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    Myself and others have been saying that for a while now. I do like the recent positive uptake from experts. Every day it is getting harder for officials to maintain restrictions. There is now a broad spectrum of support for most of the current restrictions to be lifted from the beginning of february. That will just increase. I was already feeling it tilted a week or 10 days ago.

    The irony is that Omicron seems to be as transmissible as the Measles. If this had happened in the beginning we would have had the same kind of restrictions now. If you dont want to catch it stay home. if i was in a high risk group and unvaccinated i wouldnt leave my frontdoor atm. Your chance of contracting Omicron is huge.Vaccines have helped a lot. Boosters mainly helpful for vulnerable people.The unvaccinated should be free of restrictions and the Covid pass should be scrapped, starting domestically. My wife thinks she contracted Covid in January 2020 while on a seminar in India and came back with most Covid symptoms that lasted for a month. She has been reluctant to get vaccinated. She cant get into a coffeeshop or restaurant. Why owners still checking the cert beats me. They should just stop doing that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,468 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    I find that heartbreaking. Does he actually think that's ambitious!? I want to hear talk of zero restrictions in February.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,330 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,330 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    They're going to do it again aren't they. The 3rd year in a row we'll have summer restrictions and very slow reopening. People need to write to their TD's to express that this is not acceptable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,302 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Your not going to hear that talk.

    Masks and certs will probably be the last to go and they probably aren't going in February.

    Whatever your opinion on them government have always seen those 2 as a light touch restriction



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,468 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Well given the compliance of the docile Irish, is it any wonder that they see them as "light touch"



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,302 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    It's light touch in that it's a seen to be doing something that really requires no effort from government.

    Not saying I agree with it, there's little need for them now, they should probably go domestically but we know they won't yet.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭walus


    Of course. Slow opening, new variant, next two weeks are crucial, err on the side of caution, travel restrictions, social and business restrictions, flatten the curve and protect the healthcare system, two more weeks - we are all in this together, outdoor dining only, 4 more weeks as schools must open. Same old record.

    someone has to put scientific data in front of these guys and explain it to them and put it in the context. They are not fit to run a hotdog van, never mind a country.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    Masks and certs rules will lose their significance once people start not following them. It is happening already and will continue especially with the current trajectory. Omicron the tipping point. No way to police them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    As I said a couple of pages back, booster take up looks like it has begun to plateau (infection rates have played a part too).

    Covid passes are due to expire over the next couple of months, so they'll be driving with agenda of with your booster comes your freedom.

    In the summer the over 60s will be due booster 2. So they use that as a wait until the vulnerable get their booster, then we'll be good. But of course we'll have to protect the school return too. Can't go wild and have cases rise before the school return. But of course, a load of people got Booster 1 in December. They need to have booster 2 by September. School kids will need their boosters before they go back to school again.

    Everything put back until October........

    What's that? Cases are going up again? Didn't see that coming.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,302 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Personally from being out and about I'm not seeing less people using masks, maybe other areas are different but from being around dublin and the suburbs I can't say I've seen less people using them.

    Certs is hit and miss, has been from day 1.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    TBH that Leo answer is a waffly non-answer. We really should see changes in February and the St Paddy's Day Festival is back on, all pointing to a better year anyway. If cases and hospital cases fall quickly during February and with antivirals coming soon there's little to no justification to retain anything beyond March so he'll probably get to be right about that promise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭KanyeSouthEast


    Said the same yesterday the masks are prevailing as strong as ever. I personally hate them they are uncomfortable unsightly and I’m not even sure if they are useful especially as they are probably being used incorrectly by most of us. I would love the see them become Optional but I just think we’re a long way away from that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭Quags


    I feel there has being a massive change in the public since the Covid reports last week, people have had enough of the lies and bullshit restrictions placed on their lives through the mismanagement of the HSE. We know for the last few years at winter the hospitals are under pressure but we never slowed down society, yes we may have had higher body count in through Covid but HSE/NPHET have had data stating who came IN with Covid and who came in with other injuries and were asymptomatic so got added to numbers and then pushed the fear factor out.

    Certain people will still back Gov/NPHET and some will have the fear of going out to crowds etc due to the relentless push of Covid on the TV/Radio, Newspaper but majority dont care, just need to look at the crowds on Grafton St after 8pm last night.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,302 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Whatever it being a waffly non answer, I caught a bit of it driving home and the interview was a complete car crash



  • Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭Derkaiser93


    That may happen and I certainly hope not. But since you linked that varadkar tweet and are basing your conclusion on that ,

    He says over next 2 months. That's not the summer.

    And nearly everything is already open unlike this time last year. Just a few restrictions that could easily be phased over the space of a month or two.

    Having said that I'd agree with most on here that close to all if not all restrictions gone in February.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭walus


    Just saw the news on Israel where up to 40% of population is likely to be infected with Omicron. That is in a country with exceptionally high vaccination rates and 4 booster programme well under way.

    will this herd ever stop running and stop and think for a moment? We are talking about a sore throat that kills 2 out of population of 100,000 people. Are people really this brainless? I can’t believe it tbh.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Yeh they all have those on occasions. I reckon any political pronouncements in advance of the NPHET meeting next week are best ignored. At best they are well-meaning and at worst completely made up.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Remember,we already know that Minister Donnelly is VERY keen (on the recommendations from his Senior Civil Servants) to have sections of the EMERGENCY Provisions of the 1947 Health Acts made an integral part of the General Legislation.

    The senior Civil Servants,apparently feel this will make it easier for "Us" to deal with future Emergency Situations without having to go to all the bother of convening Dáil Éireann etc.

    These guys,and I include mambers of NPHET here,are making a power-grab here,which if allowed will effectively sideline politicians and inter-alia,US,the general populace.

    This is VERY dangerous stuff and underlines why we need an effective 4th estate media to watch over those who now find they quite like the Powers granted to them by Sec31A of the Health Act 1947.

    The Pandemic,for what it was, ended in mid 2020,all else has been Social & Political experimentation......just wait and see what transpires in the next 3 months.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,256 ✭✭✭✭km79


    No talk on mask in primary going again…….what was the initial date given again? End of February I think ?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,666 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,930 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Yep and how its to do with covid is beyond me ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Do you have a link to the Drosten interview ? Most of the coverage appears to be as doomy n gloomy as our own ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    Maybe it was more a case of wishful thinking about masks but i see that more as an inconvenience. I am more hopeful about Cert checking when businesses are up and running with the Omicron good news spreading in people's heads. Those possible new rules about table service etc wont be followed after a while. Again, when that fear and anxiety lessens in the general public resulting in less compliance the authorities will need a pretty big stick to uphold the rules. Police will be reluctant and if they wield it then the resentment will grow even more. I feel the game is up. All this talk about the great things in summer will happen much earlier. I see the end of february as more likely especially when less restrictions do not halt hospitalisations from going down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,657 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Most of the coverage is nearly as doomy yes but I have the link. The Tagesspiegel is usually at the fore-front of the doom merchants but its an interview with them. https://www.tagesspiegel.de/wissen/christian-drosten-im-interview-omikron-ist-eine-chance/27978808.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭BuildTheWall


    Like what do they really think a 12 curfew and no bar service is actually going to achieve? You’d swear they are on the wind up on a national level.


    ”Then we told them they couldn’t go to the bar and had to put on a mask when they go to the toilet!” *All of NPHET laugh maniacally*



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,657 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    I dont think we can and will pursue with more complicated regulations. Once the hospital situation is deemed grand I'd say we'll open up with little if any terms and conditions. And you would have to too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,337 ✭✭✭Archeron


    Had my first refusal of service today, in a fast food place. Popped in for a coffee and sambo and presented my cert on my phone. The young girl then asked for photo ID which I unusually didn't have as I'd left my wallet at home because I'd been walking across fields and didnt want to lose it. Also the first time I've ever been asked for ID.

    Didn't want to sit outside as it was raining. But at least the world is safer as a result of me not getting lunch.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,666 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    Tbh, I just feel the government have got a real view into the level or control they can have on the population. I don't see a return to normal unless there are mass protests. For me, I want vaxx passes gone. My jab one expires and my recovery cert will do til May I think, but I want them gone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,657 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Without a doubt. Everything has to go. Everything. Period.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,786 ✭✭✭brickster69


    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    If this statistic alone does not get some in-depth media coverage then the plot has really thickened !


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,786 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Pre-existing conditions by type in 2020


    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Somebody needs to tweet Leo V with these stats,and ask when he's going to ask our crew to deliver the same ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭noraos


    I have found that people are now so 'over covid' both physically and mentally, that they no longer want to talk about it..nor or are they 'angry' at the restrictions..they are compliant for a simple life... to me, this is more dangerous, people have their passes, they comply along like its no big deal... a huge chunk of the population do not know or care when and if the emergency legislation gets renewed..they have no interest any more and they are burnt out.. to me this so much more dangerous as the government can keep promising and drip feeding us good news.. and people will react in the way to just roll with it as all will be OK by the summer or what's another few weeks.. etc etc.

    I feel if by the end of the month if this shitshow continues...we are in trouble...every winter we will have this shite..and it's not a future or a 'normal' I want for me or my children..

    I was so full of hope til I saw the tweets of no certainty of life getting back to normal..its disheartening

    "To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all."-Oscar Wilde



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,786 ✭✭✭brickster69


    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    I don't know if people are getting burnt out yet. I know people who are getting more entrenched, delighted at the possibility of getting N95 / FFP2 masks, complaining about rule breakers as much as I complain about the treatment of rule breakers.

    I don't see many people apart from myself breaking or bending the rules, people are still bagging up.

    I know people who can't get any more jabbed, they have their passes, or are recently recovered, yet gush on about eating outdoors... "oh, the heated sets were so comfortable"... afraid of their shite to cross the threshold of a half empty pub, restaurant or cinema.

    I really think that even if Tony said tomorrow that the pandemic was over, they'd still be putting their fear on everyone else.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    I should also have said that being compliant for a simple life is also a big thing, I complain like fück about the restrictions, passes and everything that goes with them, yet I still get jabbed so I can travel and get away from here.

    However, I'm now one of the sheep, same as everyone else. We all have our reasons for getting the pass, but it doesn't matter to Tony why you got the pass, once you have the pass.

    All very depressing really. At least the doors are still open for us to get the fück away from here... How gracious of them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    Yep. I know plenty of people who will give out about how unethical the passes are, but who will gladly use them to get into a restaurant or take a flight while the (according to them) unethical treatment of the unvaccinated continues.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,742 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    That can't be true I thought everyone was getting vaccinated so that they could protect granny and everyone else and had nothing to do with themselves.😀



  • Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭noraos


    It's amazing how much covid filled a void in so many peoples lives..I also find some people are actually JEALOUS of non vaccinated people getting recover passes...as if they still don't deserve to be a part of society ..cos they didn't get vaccinated.. its all so bizarre...alot of people wont let go of this.. and this encourages NPHET too unfortunately..Its a very toxic situation..

    "To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all."-Oscar Wilde



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    A lot of double-vaccinated-and-boosted people have said they felt guilty about contracting covid over the last month or so, as though there is any moral value to be attributed in the course of infectious disease.

    There's definitely a degree of psychosis going on. The propaganda mongers have a LOT to answer for.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



  • Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭noraos


    100%...its almost as if they feel 'unclean' and that's how it has been drilled into people's minds..if you caught it, it's because you clearly didnt follow the rules...🙄

    Most people are no longer afraid of the virus..but they don't want to be responsible or to be known as the 'one who passed it on'..and this is the core of why the restrictions will stay alot longer than anyone wants..in my opinion..its the fear of judgement now, not actual illness..

    "To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all."-Oscar Wilde



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  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭BuildTheWall


    What do you want people to do? I try my best to support businesses that don’t discriminate based on a persons vaccine status but unfortunately there’s little or nothing I can do about it. If I want to get in somewhere or get on a flight I have to use the cert.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Blut2


    9,400 deaths with no underlying condition in the UK would be the population adjusted equivalent of 700 deaths in Ireland, total. Across almost 2 years, so 350 or so a year. With a median age of 82.

    Given our similar population profiles, and it being the same disease, thats likely a roughly accurate figure for Ireland. NPHET will do their damnest to delay releasing that figure.

    We have 150-200 road deaths a year every year in the country, of people with a much much lower average age, in much better health, and nobody demands society shut down completely to prevent that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    I complain about the passes, they're a slippery slope to god knows where. I've rarely used the pass within Ireland, but when I do I always cause a queue to form behind me....

    As for using it to get away from here, well, I make no apologies about doing that.

    I hate the whole theatre around the passes for travel, but I'm sorry, I'll do whatever it takes for hassle & testing free travel, my head needs regular breaks from the absolute covid misery that pervades Ireland... they even have covid distancing stickers in the tiny shitter at work FFS.



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    I don't really have "wants" about other people's behaviour. It seems like a pointless and unavoidably frustrating endeavour. But I do know a handful of people who take the position that they will not use the domestic covid pass and will take whatever consequences for that there are (not going to places that require them, testing before flights rather than showing them, giving more business to places that refuse to be complicit, etc.). I respect those people.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    I happened to go for tea in a hotel lobby w a friend who was staying there. Didnt have my ID but manager settled f my Covid pass. Some friends of his joined and i just expressed my hope these irrelevant Covid passes would go soon. That they were a relic from the times when we hoped they would help somehow, to keep Covid from spreading, to make society saver.

    Alas, it is now so normalised that people dont even question them, their efficacy and purpose.'Ah sure, we are all jabbed anyway, whats your problem?' They actually dont see the issue. I am afraid that will be the reason they might stay. It contradicts my other thinking, that the diminishing fear of Covid will lessen over time and hotels etc not bothered asking for them. But It might turn into a standard bureaucratic procedure. Pubs are likely to stop using the certs at some point but in hotels, music venues, theatres etc they might continue to be used. Maybe that is the real reason authorities are so against pubs.

    With Omicron any social distancing, mask wearing, certification has become completely obsolete, yet it is the same routine applied now. Everybody is so used to it it has become...normal, new normal, sensible, acceptable behaviour.Terrifying, really!



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