Do men need a license to be allowed socialise (MOD NOTE IN OP)

walshb · 18-01-2022 01:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118493950#Comment_118493950

Agreed

And I believe that a huge problem is when people mention personal safety and responsibility out of nothing but common sense, love and concern, you have people accusing them of victim blaming.

mdol · 18-01-2022 01:23PM

Brendan Howlin was on local radio yesterday insisting every man in Ireland needs to reassess their attitude towards women.

Frankly I find that highly insulting.

walshb · 18-01-2022 01:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118493991#Comment_118493991

Commentators are terrified to push back. They all want to be seen as so very pro females. I am pro female, pro male, but do not make a big deal out of it.

I find it quite insulting that we are peddling this idea that females need to be cuddled and hugged and wrapped up. And I am betting many females agree

18-01-2022 01:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118493991#Comment_118493991

Well, since I currently have positive and gentle feelings towards women... does that mean I should reassess that attitude and become aggressive or full of contempt for them?

These morons really need to be reined in.

Pussyhands · 18-01-2022 01:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118493930#Comment_118493930

But the facts show, men are more likely to be attacked. So why are women more fearful than men?

It's like someone saying they have a fear of flying. The common reaction when someone says they have a fear of flying is to show them statistics that you have more chance of dying in a car crash than a plane crash. This is aiming to reduce fear.

Imagine they came back and said "yeah but if a plane crashes I definitely die, it's worse". That's essentially what you are doing.

18-01-2022 01:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118493991#Comment_118493991

I'm reassessing my attitude towards certain women after seeing them use this poor girls death as a way of blaming men for everything bad in a woman's life.

They can go and **** off.

18-01-2022 01:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118493918#Comment_118493918

A major shift in our society over the last 30 years or so, no-one wants to get involved in anything. No one calls out wrongdoing in the street. People are head down, eyes averted, constantly.

It's not just men, everybody needs to step up

Mad_maxx · 18-01-2022 01:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118493231#Comment_118493231

None so as insufferably smug as male feminists

growleaves · 18-01-2022 01:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118493991#Comment_118493991

They (media/gov) love to promote the idea that every one is guilty. Or at least every man.

Also Howlin is like the King in 'Henry IV Part Two' (Shakespeare play), giving orders about personal morality.

Is that how democratic/republican governments are meant to speak to the people?

Snickers Man · 18-01-2022 01:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118484116#Comment_118484116

That's absolutely right! He was, as you say, merely "offering a suggestion". There is no chance of such a suggestion being escalated into a serious government policy, or even proposal. He was brainstorming: "running something up the flagpole and seeing who would salute it".

The salute most men gave was a two-fingered one and rightly so, but that's really all there is to it.

walshb · 18-01-2022 01:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118494012#Comment_118494012

I gave my view on why the comparisons have differences.

Yes, males attack males more often. This has always been the case. These are simply statistics. Fear is something we cannot measure. It is in us all.

Females and males both fear being attacked, but the fear is not the same all the time, due to what I said...

Ash.J.Williams · 18-01-2022 01:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118494012#Comment_118494012

i was about to say something but it sounded wrong because we're all equal now but it's the job of the stronger people to look after the less strong, so that means strong men protecting less strong women, and strong women protecting less strong men , am i right?

SAMTALK · 18-01-2022 01:37PM

The older I get the more embarrassed I become about the way "feminists" carry on. You do not represent me , and I would be safe in saying the majority of females in Ireland

I feel sorry for the men of Ireland and the label that is being put on them . There is so much wrong with what is being said in the last week that it is hard to know where to begin.

1st of the social media "she was only going for a run ". I dont get this at all. What does it matter what she was doing or where she was going. If some poor girl is murdered at 1am going to the chippers do they put up " she was only going for chips". The poor child was murdered by an evil man (not a normal even run of the day man). Therefore let us focus our anger at this man and not every man we see

one lady on the radio saying she walks the same walk every day for years and the day after the murder of Aishling Murphy she started her walk and saw a man coming towards her so she turned around and went home. Mother of God what are we becoming !

18-01-2022 01:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118494034#Comment_118494034

No.

18-01-2022 01:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118494034#Comment_118494034

Except we're not all equal. Oh, equal rights are here, but look at most areas of society, and you'll find something that's been implemented to give women a leg up. Some extra help to make things more fair.

Everything in modern society is aimed at protecting women. Not protecting or helping people. The focus is entirely on women. I'm not saying that with resentment or anything negative, but we really need to start looking at our society the way it really is...

SuperBowserWorld · 18-01-2022 01:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118493799#Comment_118493799

Just saw some of the funeral online, just to give some kind of respect and time to this.

It's a wake up call for the nation, especially after a couple of years of covid blinkers.

And it's terribly sad and tragic.

RIP Ashling Murphy.

anewme · 18-01-2022 01:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118493725#Comment_118493725

I said this to you yesterday. Your idea of a compliment might be "nice tits", or something in that vein, that's misogynistic and sexist. I also said, if you want to give compliments to people you know, by all means, go ahead and do it.

My point still stands, if there is a large element of people who wont take it well, then don't do it.

You are trying to play down what the street harassment is......because you want to bleat on about, you can't say anything to a woman any more.

Maybe the guy who was giving social lessons (or whatever they were) has a point. Adults should not need to be told how to behave and respect others in public.

There is a "boys will be boys" and its harmless attitude here, when its not that simple or harmless. You are trying to say, all we want to do is give a compliment, when you know full right well what is being discussed. Its been mentioned numerous times, but you want to play it down.

Higgins5473 · 18-01-2022 01:43PM

As pointed out by someone else here, the family asked very early on for their privacy to be respected, I don't know why RTE and other mainstream media particularly the Irish Times feel they are excluded in this. The wall to wall coverage is excessive and the various advocacy groups looking to further their agenda are a disgrace.

growleaves · 18-01-2022 01:48PM

In Ireland when there is a wave of emotion crashing over the country, surging through the media, you know there is going to be legislative change which is highly specific and also controversial (but the people who controvert it can be shouted down as unfeeling/bad).

Savita

Covid

Aisling Murphy

It remains to be seen what this is all about since the media push for 'new legislation' began on day one. I'm guessing this legislation was already broadly decided on beforehand.

anewme · 18-01-2022 01:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118494016#Comment_118494016

I'd say they say the same about you.

I'd say a lot of people would say the same about people they know, given their reaction. Though in person, I havent had any feedback similar to your and some here's take on things.

It is good when men realise how others still have an attitude. Beasty for example commented on it in the other thread. That can only be a good thing for the wider public.

sekiro · 18-01-2022 01:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118494019#Comment_118494019

It feels like people have too much too lose.

It also feels like the justice system will make sure that you do lose.

If I call out wrongdoing in the street then honestly I would expect some kind of escalation. So if there is some escalation what happens to me if I end up badly injuring the other person?

Hypothetical. Some lads in their early 20s are harassing a woman, I step in, one of the lads attacks me, I try to defend myself and we wrestle a bit but he slips and cracks his skull or badly hurts his neck or back or something. How am I explaining that one to my wife and my family? When the cops come and the guy decided to press charges and I make my case but they say I was reckless and my actions have ruined someone's life. What if that guy had kids himself? Genuinely what I have just ruined someone's life when I could have just walked on? In the end I bet just about every single person who cares about me says "why the F did you even get involved" and if they don't outright say it then I bet that they are thinking it.

God knows where this computer I am typing on came from. God knows where my clothes came from. My phone. There's a lot of horrible stuff that we all excuse every single day of our lives. Everyone. Is it up to me to police the streets? Am I even qualified or capable? Maybe it is better to just keep my head down and go home and forget about it. After all, nobody is going to give a damn about me if I did intervene and inadvertently ruin my entire life.

Pawwed Rig · 18-01-2022 01:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118493925#Comment_118493925

Interviewer was Pat Kenny who is checking in regularly with their live reporter in Offaly giving commentary on the funeral.

The rarity of these attacks on innocent people is what drives the news. That the innocent person is a young attractive girl makes it massive news. An older woman or foreigner would not even get half the headlines. I am reminded of the Jastine Valdez* and Urantsetseg Tserendorj cases.

The glee with which the anti immigrant, anti man and anti whatever brigade have jumped on this case to further their own agenda is actually sickening me. Why is this a 'watershed moment' when Jastine Valdez was almost immediately forgotten?

Why does no one care about Michael Tormey? The only difference is white Irish female which says a lot about those who are driving the news.

RIP Ashling Murphy, Micael Tormey and all the other innocents killed in Ireland.

Edit - the pic of her first classes holding up her pic is heartbreaking. My little boy is the same age and idolises his teacher. I cannot imagine having to explain something like this to him.

* at least that creep had the decency to do us all a favour and get himself shot by Gardai. The current coward is just a rat.

Wibbs · 18-01-2022 01:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118493875#Comment_118493875

The message to other men would clearly be then that women are FAR more valuable than men are.

They always have been Brian. Down to biology and culture reinforcing it. This goes for both the male dominated and more equal societies. In really basic terms and going back to the egg, if your tribe of say 60 people loses 25 of the women, you're down the road of extinction. If your tribe of 60 people loses 25 of the men, you're not. Look at wars throughout history. Men were usually killed and if captured enslaved. Women were very rarely killed, usually captured as 'valuable assets' and/or raped so your tribes genes get a leg up. Killing women(and children) has been pretty much a major no no since civilisation kicked off. When they talk about 'civillian casualties' it's almost entirely women and kids they're talking about. Look at Boko Haram. They had been on a murder spree for years before, killing men and young boys to beat the band and sending the women and young girls back to their families. The western media rasied barely a peep. The second they took the girls hostage, all hell broke loose and world leaders were falling over themselves to shout bring our girls back. If terrorists take hostages in planes or buildings, who do the negotiators ask to be released first? Not the men.

Look at extremely sexist and patriarchal societies like ancient Greece(Sparta being the outlier here, but for equally pragmaic reasons) or the Ottomans. Women were seen and not heard, cloistered behind veils and walls, 'protected' like the valuables the society saw them as. Even this 'value' is defined with some cultures. Take Islam and veiling. Even though many if not most will follow the overall culture, little girls don't have to be veiled, neither do old women. Basically the 'protection' is for younger fertile women. They're the most valued. Hell even the fashion and beauty industry in the west referenced before holds the appearance of youth on the pedestal.

So outside of the elites at the top of any society there is a hierarchy of value and it's consistently been children, young women and the very old, young men come pretty much last. Their value is down to being brought back on heir shield or in a coffin with a flag draped over it. You could add in poor and non locals/race as other categories. An example of this herirachy in play would be the tragedy of the Mongolian woman in her 40's stabbed and killed in Dublin last year. Not local, a bit too old, office cleaner, not nearly so facebook friendly. So no round the clock media reportage, bugger all candlelight vigils and outpourings of emotionals by the neurotic and few calls by ministers and talking heads about such an outrage. So other than children, a young, attractive, local, middle class woman with her life ahead of her being murdered is going to cause about the biggest ripples in a society. It's just the way it is.

AdrianG08 · 18-01-2022 02:01PM

Don't presume all women in Ireland today have been whipped up into this frenzy where every man/boy needs to be educated.

The vast majority attending vigils, saying prayers, expressing condolences are just simply heartbroken for her family and the needless loss of life.

It's a small vociferous minority trying to take on the mantle of speaking for all women, self titled crusaders if you like.

My own wife has been talking to me about it in the last days, even she has said she cannot understand how it's ok to start using this poor girls unfortunate end as a means of talking about gender pay equality, wolf whistling, unwanted compliments of any kind. It's just not acceptable, no matter how much there is substance to them, they mean jack **** in relation to this girl being killed.

As for complimenting a stranger, if I hadn't done just that I probably wouldn't be married to my best friend in the world, today. This craic of unwanted compliments is so vague, it all depends whose giving the compliment.

If it's George Clooney im sure it's fine, but if it's Anto who is balding, overweight and wearing his tracksuit it's a case of get away you creep.

In short, don't assume all women follow the same thought process that all men are potentially evil/they cannot walk down the street in peace.

There are psychos in every walk of life, lenient justice system/softly softly sentencing and the scandal of the mental health services in this country is the reason something as rare as this will happen again.

freshpopcorn · 18-01-2022 02:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118493799#Comment_118493799

The family asked for privacy last week and the media stayed hanging around the whole time and even filming the family. (Now they could have asked for permission but they shouldn't have.)

Similar with the funeral essentially they knew even tough they asked for privacy people would still clog the streets of Tullomore who had no connection to Ashling or the family.

Or even for those who couldn't attend the church that knew her strangers would crash the church live stream.

We had a tragic case in our town before the family had a private funeral, no mass times given, etc and this was clear. Yet people hung around trying to get into the church, media taking pictures, etc. Same people would nearly give you a lecture on boundaries and respect.

18-01-2022 02:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118494093#Comment_118494093

You did indeed say that yesterday.

I disagreed with you then and I disagree with you now.

My sole point is that approaching a woman you don't know or complimenting a woman you do not know should not be illegal.

anewme · 18-01-2022 02:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118494177#Comment_118494177

Will you ever stop with the they would welcome George Clooney, but dont like Anto. Its just more misogyny.

Any man, who whistles at or comments at a woman, or says "smile it will never happen" is an empty vessel full of his own importance.

JimmyVik · 18-01-2022 02:06PM

So my other half came home last night and said "How does it feel to be a man now? You better do something about that. I dont feel safe in this house with you anymore".

I was confused.

Then she started laughing and told me about the conversation at work.

Basically men are evil and shouldnt walk behind a woman and should have to do a course before going into a pub and all sorts of other things I was that I wasnt aware I was.

Then she said "I tried to defend you, but there be witches out there and I got shouted down when I said .... "About 3.5 million men on this Island. Once of them murdered an innocent woman. What exactly has that to do with the other 3,499,999 men, none of whom murdered that poor girl.""

It makes me sick that people are using the death of a young girl as some sort of point scoring exercise.

You can be sure that psycho scumbag has committed violent crime before. This country is too lenient on violent crime. People should be locked up for any violence. All they learn at the moment id be violent, and you only get a slap on the wrist, so why not just keep escalating the violence. Jail for violence is what needed.

mdol · 18-01-2022 02:08PM

Rte newsreader just now....

"the whole country IS in grief"

Getting silly now. Mass hysteria. The media really needs to **** off.

18-01-2022 02:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118494129#Comment_118494129

Of course they'd say the same about me. I'm a man. The women I am talking about would HATE me. But they scream the loudest and woe-betide anyone who questions the validity of their argument!! If you do that, you are woman-hating, misogynistic and probably some sort of phobe.

I have absolutely no doubt that you haven't encountered feedback similar to mine in your day-to-day. I doubt you mix with people who don't think exactly as you do. It's what makes people who think like you so sure that they are right.

And yes, I do have an attitude. Looking at so-called feminists exploiting an incident like this to further their sexist agenda is sickening.

Do men need a license to be allowed socialise (MOD NOTE IN OP)

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