Triton t90SR (9kW) blowing sockets

Alpton · 16-01-2022 7:55pm #1

Hi, I'm hoping somebody can help before I fork out for a replacement shower (€230) or call out an electrician.

I'm not an electrician but did electronics a long time back so comfortable with taking basic measurements but won't touch the consumer unit other than to flip a switch.

The 4 year old shower was disused for 12 months but didn't get much use prior to that.

When the shower is powered on (temp and pressure at lowest settings) it immediately trips the sockets mcb. Shower RCBO does not trip.

The shower is on on a 45A RCBO with a 45A double pole isolation switch. Red led on switch when isolation switch turned on. Blue power light on shower.

Resistance tests on the heating can look fine (11omh and 15omh respectively)

Thermal cutout shows continuity and the solenoid coil tests ok at 4.2Komh

When the isolation switch is powered on, the voltage is 230V between live and neutral, live and ground (measured in the shower unit).

There is a light coating of black dust on the live, neutral and earth wires going into the shower but no idea if this is related.

Thanks,

james

Skihunta13 · 16-01-2022 8:07pm

Hi,

it is very unusual for the RCD to trip when the shower has its own RCBO.

i suspect maybe its connected wrong at the fuse board. Can you take a photo of the fuse board?

the black dust is just carbon from the brushes.

Alpton · 16-01-2022 8:30pm

2022-01-16 20.20.05.jpg

11-12 is the RCBO for the shower which I switched off earlier to remove the shower unit and test. 19 is the downstairs sockets which will trip when the shower is switched on.

The consumer unit was replaced last year. I did have my doubts over the electrician who installed it. He wired up a new isolation switch for the shower incorrectly, got the neutrals wires mixed up and a few other issues.

Pretty sure the shower tested okay after this though...

meercat · 16-01-2022 9:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118486343#Comment_118486343

I’d also suspect incorrect wiring at the distribution board

you should have gotten a Certificate and test records when the board was replaced. This will show the trip times of the rcd and rcbo

theres 20a and 32a mcbs on the top row. What are these for

the cover isn’t sitting correctly and mcbs are misaligned

Alpton · 16-01-2022 9:27pm

Thanks, sounds like I might need a decent electrician.

The electrician who re-wired the consumer unit told me it wasn't necessary to certify. I did ask and it sounded like he couldn't do the certification himself.

I've attached the labeling for the consumer unit but now not sure it is 100%. 11/12 is definitely the shower though.

2022-01-16 21.15.27.jpg

meercat · 16-01-2022 9:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118486657#Comment_118486657

He should have provided a certificate. It’s possible he should have upgraded the mains cables and earthing also.

post a photo of your Esb meter including cables

Phil.x · 16-01-2022 9:41pm

I had something similar in the in-laws house, that when they had a shower (shower was in a jacuzzi type bath) that the sockets tripped. I didn't believe them at first, but what it was, was a bad silicone job where the bath meets the wall and water was travelling down the wall and into a junction box in the ceiling void below.

Alpton · 16-01-2022 10:01pm

I hope it is not a leak as I imagine it would mean removing tiles to gain access ;-( No silicone between the compression joint and the wall.

I'm attaching the meter picture which is an external smart meter so no sure if it will help.

One other thing I noticed was the ground wire is unsheathed after 5cm (pic attached)

2022-01-16 21.56.30.jpg

2022-01-16 21.52.19.jpg

meercat · 16-01-2022 10:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118486858#Comment_118486858

Hard to tell from here but you should have got a certificate either way

Doolittle51 · 17-01-2022 11:28am

That consumer unit was installed last year? Holy crap. Has it been modified since it was installed? There are 3 different types/styles of MCB. It was hardly installed like that? Is there any way of isolating it? A main switch or main fuse separate to the board?

Either way it's a mess. I actually feel uneasy looking at it.

You should get a REC out to diagnose & fix your issue.

John.G · 17-01-2022 8:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058228356/triton-t90sr-9kw-blowing-sockets

Is it the sockets RCD is tripping?, will shower still operate with this (assuming a RCD) tripped?. You might clean off all that carbon dust which might trip a RCD when pump/heating elements are energized.

I see 19 is a 20A MCB so if shower has no power when this trips then shower wired through it? Does it trip if shower used on cold setting?, no heating elements on.

Bruthal. · 17-01-2022 9:38pm

The first thing that needs to be known is, is the shower still on when the sockets RCD trips?

Edit. Looks like it's an MCB tripping. Doesn't sound great.

Bruthal. · 17-01-2022 9:38pm

cnocbui · 17-01-2022 9:50pm

Do power showers have a large motor start capacitor? I've had those things cause issues with various gear.

Alpton · 17-01-2022 10:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118491651#Comment_118491651

Yes, the sockets trip (19). The shower stays on (the rcbo doesn't trip) but no water is pumped through the shower. No issue with the water supply.

It trips even when the temperature control and pressure is set to minimum.

I was thinking I could eliminate pump issues as there is a commissioning jumper which bypasses the pump but it still wouldn't explain why the sockets mcb is tripping

cnocbui · 17-01-2022 10:38pm

Sounds like the pump motor is siezed - or the capacitor thing - so when you turn it on the load goes through the roof instantly.

Alpton · 17-01-2022 10:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118492129#Comment_118492129

I'll try bypassing the pump. Fairly easy to check (jumper setting) so worth a try.

The shower does make a bit of a wheezing sound like it is trying to crank over but the MCB tripping is puzzling

John.G · 17-01-2022 10:57pm

The shower shouldn't have anything to do with that MCB. There are 3 power levels on that shower panel possibly marked I,II. & III.The lowest setting is I or 1 or whatever is marked on it, in this setting, the only power consumed is from the pump to give a cold shower and should only need < 1 amp so even if incorrectly wired through the MCB, shouldn,t trip it, setting II supplies power to the 11ohm element say 21A, the 20A MCB shouldn't trip on this setting and even on setting III, 2 elements, ~ 40A, the MCB shouldn't trip for a minute or two. So, if your "lowest" setting is only pump power then big problem apart from apparent incorrect wiring.

Cerco · 18-01-2022 12:35pm

Should there be an isolation switch in the meter cabinet?

Not suggesting it has anything to do with the issue but I thought it was a requirement now when new meter is being installed.

Pete67 · 18-01-2022 2:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118494042#Comment_118494042

I had a new smart meter installed recently, it does not have the (customer accessible) disconnect that the old meter had. No isolator was fitted in the meter cabinet. I had ESB networks out to review the installation and they basically refused to fit an isolator saying the installation could be made safe by isolating at the incoming switch/fuse in the consumer unit. I should probably escalate that to engineering as my reading of the regulations suggests that there should be meter cabinet isolation.

kirk. · 18-01-2022 4:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118488557#Comment_118488557

The isolator in the board isolates the board unless you're replacing the board and need to turn off supply

kirk. · 18-01-2022 4:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118494872#Comment_118494872

They are right though main isolation is still done at the main board even with a main MCB in the cabinet

hedzball · 07-02-2022 11:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118495672#Comment_118495672

Would I be right thinking in the rules it states isolation in 2 places before the main consumer unit ?

kirk. · 08-02-2022 8:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118597986#Comment_118597986

Main isolator at main board isolates supply to installation

Main protective device(MCB) in cabinet protects tails but can also isolate supply at board for maintenance work

If there's EV charging at cabinet main isolation would move out to there

Don't have et10101 but that would be my understanding anyway

hedzball · 08-02-2022 4:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598428#Comment_118598428

Yeah the main at the board I get but from the esb side in, according to the regs there is meant to be an isolator installed.

I have looked into a fair few meter boxes this week (installing EV chargers) and Im shook by what some of the smart meter installers have done.

Backwards we are going.

kirk. · 08-02-2022 4:30pm

Yah Ive seen some awful stuff by prepay power and the like at main boards , cables and protective devices burnt after them

Some of the cabinets will be fairly messy if consumers equipment is allowed aside from MOPD

Huge rush to get work done and cabinets not in great nick

kirk. · 08-02-2022 4:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118601135#Comment_118601135

I see ,I think u mean the existing isolators esbn fit before the consumers main overcurrent protective device

I think they're a requirement alright but are only single pole and require the use of a tool so are not suitable as such as a main isolator

Triton t90SR (9kW) blowing sockets

Comments