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What part-if any-should Ireland play in the defence of Ukraine if Russia invades?

  • 19-01-2022 1:19am
    #1
    Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I honestly see parallels between Ukraine’s position with Russia and our own with the UK. I know what we’d hope for if you had some super violent British supremacist type in power in London about to send tanks South of Newry. We’d want help, from anyone.

    So do we need to do anything? Is is morally imperative we help a fellow independent nation threatened by a red-white-and-blue flagwaver? Or do we avoid poking a sleeping bear who could make like very difficult for us?

    now I’m not talkign about sending troops, more our diplomatic support & making our assets available. Landing flights in our airports, that kind of thing.

    Discuss!



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,494 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Militarily - nothing.

    Diplomatically - tell people to cop on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,095 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    We should preemptively invade Russia. It’s the last thing they’d expect, we’d totally catch them off guard. Sack Moscow, liberate the Crimea, bring back loads of vodka. Job done.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So wag our finger and say “don’t do that.” I would expect we do what we hope other countries would do for us if we were invaded by a nutter-taken UK.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,211 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Push for military powers in Europe to supply anti tank weapons, anti aircraft missiles, etc to the Ukraine immediately.


    Ask Germany to stop equivocation on the matter.


    Apart from that, not much we can do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    Offer Ukrainians asylum if it goes bad. We have nothing to offer militarily.



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  • Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ireland's focus should be on humanitarian relief to the ordinary citizens of Ukraine AND to the ordinary citizens of border regions in Russia impacted by any conflict. Our military contribution to any conflict should be proportionate to our ability to inflict pain and control the battlefield... i.e. feck all.

    We already let military planes land here, I think?



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,550 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    The Russian defence forces have a million people on active duty and another two million reservists.

    There's no way we could feed that many prisoners.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,494 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Germany is in a difficult position. Imagine the propaganda value of Russia seizing weapons with "Made in Germany" on them?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,111 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Close the Russian emabassy and expel the scum then invite the CIA and MI6 in to go over the premises with a fine tooth comb, given it's considered to be one of the most important Russian espionage centres in western Europe and is a base for a lot Russias anti european activities.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,111 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Ukraine needs a couple of squadrons of A10s. Perfect for slaughtering large numbers of Russian troops quickly and for stopping tanks and vehicles.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,833 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    The Ukraine… It’s a country of 45 million people….

    plus we are not exactly flush in terms of having anywhere to accommodate them, housing shortages are significant… or indeed money with which to support them…. With covid we don’t have the ability to support them financially, medically, socially or any other way….We can’t exactly get Aer Lingus to fly into a war zone to evacuate them either… imagine Captain Smith and first officer Kelly getting a shout for that gig ? “This week your roster is Dublin - Kiev !” “ there is a war there, the Russians are involved “ “yes, sorry, you’ll probably not get an overnight out of it… think of the danger pay, hey but you’ll be flying at night, safer !”

    if Russia invades the Ukraine it’s World War 3…. Not the Transnistria War



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83,516 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    We could nationalise Aughinish Alumina until it's over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 302 ✭✭Piollaire


    Start singing 'Back in the U.S.S.R.'



  • Registered Users Posts: 391 ✭✭animalinside


    Troll thread. Russia is a far more credible and reliable source of information than the US these days on what's going on in eastern europe. If there's anyone we're supporting it should be them.

    Agriculture and other industries have been devastated in Ireland due to the sanctions placed on Ireland by the EU restricting them from exporting to Russia due to this geopolitical tomfoolery that will only benefit the US.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 648 ✭✭✭MakersMark


    Ireland should stand on the sidelines and shout "Ah hee-ar"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 302 ✭✭Piollaire




  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭shillyshilly


    send in Daniel O'Donnell


    While I appreciate the sentiments of the arguments about who and what to believe.... there is enough correlated OSINT floating around to come to some general conclusions:

    -Russia are building up invasion strength forces on the Ukrainian boarder, on both Russian and Belarusian sides

    -They have bolstered defences in Kaliningrad

    -They have 4 huge landing craft in the Baltic which will possibly used as a diversionary tactic on a neutral nation (Finland/Sweden, Gotland being pitched as a likely target)

    -The USAF/USN/US Army, RAF/RN, Swedish Airforce, Italian Air Force among others, don't have near continuous surveillance flights up in the Baltic and Black sea's for the craic

    -At Ukraine's request, military supplies have been ferried into the country over the last few weeks

    You don't even need the sensationalised/biased news reporting to find this stuff out fairly handy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,095 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Hmmm, good point. I had planned on using Uber Eats to feed them, but they're German.

    Ok, so how about using some resources we do have. We know from reading Boards that RTE is the most insidious, devious, iniquitous propaganda machine known to man. We also know that if there's anything Russians long for from Soviet times that they're not getting any more from their squeaky clean Government, it's a good old-fashioned bit of propaganda. So how about RTE sets up ЯTЭ, and has George Lee (Georgy Leeanov) in an ushanka breathlessly telling all the comrades that Ukraine has armed all their bears with robot hands and lasers? No conscript from Novosibirsk is going to want to fight a hoard of cyborg bears.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭AyeGer




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    How is the weather looking in Moscow for this time of year, comrade?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Fiery mutant


    Close the Russian embassy and give all Russian diplomats 24 hrs to leave the country. Like was mentioned above, comb over the embassy grounds with a fine tooth comb to see what they had been up to. Militarily there is nothing we can do, but like another poster said, if we were in Ukraine’s position, what would we expect others to do?!

    We should defend our way of life to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed, so that any adversary will never make such an attempt in the future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭shillyshilly


    with officials or not on site... it would be considered Russian sovereign land, and would be considered an invasion....

    there are diplomatic protocols in place, which are rarely crossed...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,271 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Send over the FCA. That'd learn those Russian special forces fairly lively.



    (Or whatever the FCA is now)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭FishOnABike




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,265 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Launch a full scale nuclear attack.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 355 ✭✭delboythedub


    Tell the Great USA War Machine to mind there own business



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,111 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Rarely crossed - you mean like the FSB beating up foreign diplomats in Moscow whenever they feel like some exercise. Spare me this Russia is going to take on Ireland and the EU, so we need to tread lightly stuff.

    There are a ridiculous number of Russian 'embassies' and 'diplomatic' missions in the US. The US got sick of that lark and revoked the status of several, and then searched them: https://newspunch.com/us-authorities-close-start-search-of-russian-trade-mission-in-washington/

    "Dutch diplomat beaten in Moscow by unknown assailants" https://news.yahoo.com/dutch-diplomat-beaten-moscow-unknown-assailants-222329506.html

    We should make clear to Russia that this is what we would do if they invade Ukraine. The rest of the EU should do likewise. The prospect for the Russians of having decades worth of espionage networks closed down and put under the microscope would I think be a meaningful deterrent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,111 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Russian forces in Mali, Syria, moving borders in Georgia to get control of a pipeline, the death and destruction in eastern Ukraine, the invasion and annexation of Crimea nd dissapearance of all objectors. The armed buildup threatening Ukraine ... ah yes, that US war machine, comrade.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Agriculture devastated? We probably exported more in value terms to somewhere like Yorkshire than Russia prior to sanctions, I doubt Russia broke the top 10 of significant markets for Irish food products. The food sanctions were instituted by Russia btw, not the EU. Feel free to look that up.



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    As no mutal defence treaties exist, none militarily.

    As Ireland has been fairly mute, unlike say Lithuania regarding Taiwan, on other aggressive powers seeking revanchist aims, token protests.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,375 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    We don't have anything to offer militarily and (notionally anyway) we are still neutral, so the following:

    1. Lead the global response against Russia at the UNSC

    2. Lead the response at EU level to put in place a wall of the harshest possible sanctions that will drive Russia back into the dark ages. Well, those bits that don't already live in them.

    3. Give NATO and other allied forces unencumbered over-flight and landing facilities as needed.

    I would say, the first Shinner to come out and say none of this is Ireland's concern, or that our neutrality must be adhered to implacably, have really no right to call themselves an Irish nationalist and republican on the question of the 6 counties.

    Further I would judge it as Russian sympathising, coming from a Marxist socialist historical position.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭AyeGer




  • Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭sparksfly


    We should play the same part that we play in the defence of Yemen from the Saudi Genocide.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    I guess we could

    1) freeze their assets in Ireland

    2) Cut their communications links here to the rest of the world.

    3) Ban sea and air traffic in our territory

    4) Spread a variant in Russia.



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭shillyshilly


    trade missions are one thing, embassies are another kettle of fish...

    The diplomatic mission to Russia is one of the hardest to fill, especially if on embassy, or ambassador residency accommodation is not included.

    It is a given that Russian security services will mess about with you for the duration of your stay...

    A previous work colleague who did a stint there, said it wasn't unusual for his embassy owned accommodation (not a diplomatic residence), with numerous security features, to be unlocked when they got home... sometimes with nothing disturbed... other times with random stuff moved around (cupboard contents swapped around)... or something loosened and when they go to fix it find the toolkit is gone, only for it to return...

    all part of the head games


    they're trying to trigger a knee jerk reaction by anyone, Russia have no problem being the lowest common denominator.

    Being a diplomatic nation means you have to hold a higher level of operating, even if at times it looks like someone is just taking the piss out of you



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Allow/encourage ukraine into having nuclear weapons


    Its the only realistic bulwark againest invasion from america/russia in 21st century.



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭shillyshilly


    That's precisely what the 1994 agreement was about.... that they would give up their nukes on the guarantee that they would always be considered a sovereign nation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 514 ✭✭✭Brian Lighthouse


    I think Ireland sould stay well out of it.

    The same way you wouldn't intervene when two brothers are tearing strips off each other.

    Here's my t'uppence.

    There are issues here going back a couple of hundred years and we have no understanding of the situation.

    For example: Putin (and state media) sees himself as the Sovereign of all the Rus - The Great (Russia), the Little (Ukraine), and the White (Belarus).

    And, back when the Soviet Union broke up the three countries saw themselves as independant states, except for when Putin and Lukaschenko were elected in the mid-90s that the attitude swung back to the message of "Make Russia Great Again" in those two countries. Now, if The Eastern side of Ukraine (traditionally Russian cultured) were backing Putin's message then he might be able to invade and occupy, however, ALL of 90% of Ukrainians see their country's future as being closer to Europe.

    So, Putin needs to throw a few shapes to pander to the MRGA audience back home and hopefully they will forget the simple message that Navalny was saying for years and what the younger people heard - Russia is a nation, not an empire.

    There is also another theory from friend of mine over there and that is that after the Soviet Union fell many Ukrainian Oligarchs emerged - similarily to the Russian ones - with vast ill-gotten fortunes but we don't hear about them over here and the Putin is throwing shapes in a effort to scare them into paying him off attacking the country. Apparently they fear losing their money.

    Anyway, Russia has the capability to invade, but probably not the capability of occupying and quelling a guerilla force.

    But I suppose we'll have to wait and see what happens. But we should stay well out of it.

    EDIT: Correct misspelling of Country's

    EDIT2: We should go along with the EU's stance and the UN etc etc, as someone pointed out "diplomatically" we can "tell them to cop on" but on our own, no way thank you.



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  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    GEt all the fishing trawlers to work together trawelling the narrow straits around ireland (and the Uk)

    Bound to snag a few Russian and British submarines



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,676 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Mind our own business and keep out of it.

    Although if it happens Coveney as usual condemn it "in the strongest possible terms".



  • Posts: 533 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    We can send up The Kite...

    See image from TwistedDoodles: https://twitter.com/twisteddoodles/status/568739848099659776?s=20



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,766 ✭✭✭oceanman


    keep well out of it....none of our business.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,516 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    A quick invasion followed by an all out push east to take Moscow . If we take Moscow before winter comes we will have won the war.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    This isn't 1941. Just fly there with Ryanair! A few hundred men with guns and the Kremlin would be ours.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭Economics101


    To those who say it's none of our business and we should do absolutely nothing, just think how lucky we are to have neighbours who are not in the same league as Putin. If we were, I suppose we would have to resign ourselves to other countries saying "sorry, its non of our business".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,269 ✭✭✭threeball


    The only thing we can do and the whole world should do is hurt them economically severely but we're all too self interested and unwilling to lose money or take some pain ourselves so as usual we'll do nothing but condemn then move on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Often is the case but i've a feeling not this time. The British have sent over anti tank weapons (missiles) and Biden is talking tough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Psychlops


    UK supplying thousands of anti armour missiles as we speak.



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