Second Captains Part II

Yeah brilliant. Great example of how something that seems small like a common phrase can be part of a toxic culture.

It's not "all men need to take a look at themselves", it's all men need to realise that small actions from us are a big part of the solution to the problem. It's all the little things that are let go, like the **** misogynistic jokes and comments that far too many lads still use, that reinforce the culture of demeaning women.

We don’t know the motives and circumstances of this distinct individual yet, but using the incident as a gateway to talking about violence against women, it’s fairly well accepted that the root of these things goes right down into the bones of cultural behaviour. Small messages reinforced over time that create this ‘them’ mentality and builds entitlement and resentment, and can feed into more unstable peoples perceptions and actions. Like, crazy people are still taking their cues from society, they’re just being more extreme about it.

a good example of a change in language and perception is in the treatment of the gay community - homophobic slurs were incredibly commonplace in everyday speech not that long ago. As that’s been increasingly made unacceptable, and people have become a bit more conscious of their words and behaviour, abuse and violence towards the gay community has come down. It’s still a big problem obviously, but there’s a correlation that shows how societal shift effects individual actions.

All this sht builds on itself, so you have to go right to the foundations.

likely won’t end all incidents of male violence against women. Very likely will help cut down at least some instances. Definitely will help women in a broader sense. And it simply involves not being **** to people, so where’s the problem?

First of all good discussion on this, it's refreshing to have a different opinion to someone but not resort to the usual stuff that goes on online . I 100% see your point and in general i am in agreement with it - it costs nothing to be nice.

However i do not see how these degrees of separation result in avoiding the tragedy such as the one last week. These people are sick and let's be honest they always will be. We do not need to know the details of this particular case and i'm sure there's some sob story/mental illness behind it all but frankly i don't care. Anyone who commits an act like this should be locked up for life.

We've probably derailed this thread enough. So sport eh? :-)

I mean, it should… having a pause for thought about how our small actions may in small ways support bigger social behaviours is not a bad thing. So so many destructive little behaviours are baked into us, and it’s entirely healthy to check ourselves every so often on the root causes of our choices, and if we can do better.

I don’t think he’s saying “you are the cause”, I think he’s saying “you can be part of a solution” in at least some cases.

Just spotted your own name is a reference to casual misogyny from Richard Keyes…

https://youtu.be/zQ4FqjqCIEk

out of curiosity, why did you choose it? And do you think maybe choosing it - even just cause you thought it was funny - might just be yet another little reinforcing buttress for misogynistic behaviour? Another little statement to the world that ‘yeah, this is fine/funny/bantz.’?

The reason they left newstalk was to give them the freedom to discuss things like current affairs. Their take is interesting..

Wanted more money, less hours and an input into current affairs drive time show

Eoin mentioned on yesterdays pod they will be covering the topic in more detail later in the week.

Murph struggling to articulate his point midway through todays pod. He says a lot with saying anything sometimes.

Disappointing to see the usual boards straw man arguments usually reserved for AH appearing in this thread. Do wonder why some of the posters are even listening to the podcasts, they were always going to cover this. Sinead O' Caroll is a regular contributor and those who are surprised by this have either wilfully ignored the SC crews fairly obvious political leanings or haven't been paying attention. Those who are spouting the idiotic 'stick to sports' opinions would be better served elsewhere I suspect, OTB, FW or wherever else they want to go but this is who SC have always been and will likely always be so I would suggest either accepting that or finding a different podcast.

Oh I have no interest in engaging with your absolute nonsense. You're not a regular poster here and as far as I can see your first post in this thread was earlier today, back to AH with your absolute rubbish.

Ireland presses the hysteria button very readily. We see it with COVID restrictions.

ireland is a stable politically, socially dull country where not a whole lot happens but we like to talk and communicate so when something happens that strikes a chord then the media machine can go into overdrive.

when you see the danger that other countries live with like the Ukraine is experiencing right now then it should give people a bit of perspective of the true level of danger they live in.

Safe to say the people falling over themselves giving out about todays pod didn't actually listen to it... They explicitly mentioned in the pod that they're not saying that if people control what they say and do that women won't still get murdered, but they did say that is there any harm in controlling your behaviour?

As others have said, if ye could decamp to AH please, that'd be sound.

While all of this sounds nice, it is a patent misrepresentation of what is objectively true. The people discussing these topics in public are not the kind of people who are going to bring about material change. Violence against LGBT persons is actually increasing, particularly gay men and this has been known for some time. It is also facetious to suggest the root cause of these issues are cultural when that is clearly not the case as evidenced by statistics, if it was a cultural issue it would be far more prevalent and common in society, which it is not and you're just gaslighting people into believing common buzzwords people are picking up on social media.

The cultural argument essentially believes that if we force change, in terms of language and education, then these crimes will taper off over time. That is a fanciful argument as men have drastically changed their behaviour towards women yet sexual crimes and violence against women are still increasing. The majority of people who believe in the cultural argument also believe in restorative justice, which just trivialises sexual crime and allows devious people to convince the probation services they have been rehabilitated.

If we want to make society safer for women then we need to have a real discussion instead of faux-altruism and buzzwords, that are untrue and are devoid of reality. The crux of suggestions on Irish media over the past few days has been for mothers to stop saying boys will be boys and lots of talk about toxic masculinity. Its useless discussion that unqualified people attempt to gaslight the public when the statistics and causes of these crimes have been known and studied for a long time.

Education is important, but not nearly as important as a deterrence and a system that can start identifying people who are engaging in behaviours that will eventually lead to violence/sexual crimes. Crime is trivialised in this country, the criminal justice system is a joke, yet nobody is talking about the things we can change with legislation. It's also worth pointing out that people are individuals, perhaps teaching people personal responsibility might help instead of demonising groups of people which likely just makes the extreme ends of those groups more reclusive and angry.

Telling a rapist not to rape just doesn't work. If someone is a danger to society then they should be removed from society. Very rarely does someone wake up one day and commit murder/rape. It's a serious of crimes, escalating, each time the offender is able to detach themselves further from responsibility as the punishment is almost always trivial in comparison to the crime.

Another person who wants to live in an echo chamber.

I really don't understand why some men get so angered by the discussion and the idea of self reflecting and thinking how you personally could treat women better and calling out toxic behaviour.

What's wrong with being more empathetic and treating other people with respect

The people criticising the episode didn't listen to it. Or if they did they are misrepresenting what was said on it.