Do men need a license to be allowed socialise (MOD NOTE IN OP)

findmenow · 19-01-2022 6:22pm

Man pinches woman's bottom = sexual assault

Man pinches man's bottom = sexual assault

Woman pinches man's bottom = sexual assault

Woman pinches woman's bottom = sexual assault

It really is that simple, it's sexual assault and not acceptable regardless of who's doing it

john123470 · 19-01-2022 6:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501233#Comment_118501233

" . In other words, do I as a woman need to add a simple interaction with a man to the list of things I should fear now?.."

~Exactly this.

Now that we have gay marriage, reasonable freedom for all sexual orientations, perhaps we can have separate "tuition classes" on how to defuse a situation should eg. a heterosexual man eg. (mistakenly) express interest in eg. a Lesbian.

If eg. said lesbian became outraged - how can the man best apologize for his failing to recognize "her" "sexuality" ?

If the murderer of this poor woman turns out to be a foreigner, should we not perhaps turn our attention to educating "foreigners" on the sexual nuances in this new multi-sexual environment we now find ourselves in ?

There are so many sexual orientations here now - each clamouring for their particular rights - i get confused myself.

Look the wrong direction and you are bound to upset someone.

What really galls me though is Ms McEntee, Minister for Justice, a woman, throwing it all back on the "sheeple" .. "change your attitudes to women .. make them feel safer .. bla bla bla "

No, Minister. Start a programne of serious sentencing for Serious offenders / Repeat offenders.

Stop letting repeat offenders walk the streets to re-offend. That is your job. That is what you get paid a sackload of cash to do.

If your department had not seriously cut rural policing, might this tragedy have possibly been prevented !?

If you care a jot about the senseless death of this young woman, then Do Your Job !!

Unfortunately, this will not happen. We are a pass the buck country

'It's all your fault !"

- No, it isn't

.. is so !.."

zv2 · 19-01-2022 6:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501221#Comment_118501221

Has it come to this? That men and women should separate because they have become so wary of each other trust has broken down? Let's face it there is sexism on both sides and studies show that men suffer as much domestic violence as women. The demon has entered between men and women. How did this happen? I detest cat calling and pinching bottoms is intimidating for women and men. Even the simplest gestures can be pregnant with menace and it is not on for either sex. Almost all of the discussion on this issue is political and that well and good. But what is the real source of this? Where does it come from? These are questions that few people are asking or trying to answer.

“This great evil, where's it come from? How'd it steal into the world? What seed, what root did it grow from? Who's doing this? Who's killing us, robbing us of life and light, mocking us with the sight of what we might've known? Does our ruin benefit the earth, does it help the grass to grow, the sun to shine? Is this darkness in you, too? Have you passed through this night?”

― James Jones, The thin red line

AyeGer · 19-01-2022 6:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118500613#Comment_118500613

I wouldn’t be convinced it’s rarer, many men will have experienced it. On a one on one it’s not a major issue for a man. But if an 18 or 19 year old guy collecting glasses in a venue and a load of older women at a hen do start nipping and grabbing at the guy that can be intimidating and demeaning and very uncomfortable. Not acceptable at all.

JoChervil · 19-01-2022 6:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501250#Comment_118501250

It might also happen in a day light on any following day.

Probability of such even is minuscule yet it is enough, if it happens only once to you.

19-01-2022 6:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501302#Comment_118501302

Hang on, we aren't talking about rape, or murder.

We are talking about a man and a woman, both squeezing the arse of the opposite sex, in the exact same scenario.

You understand why a guard would laugh at a man for reporting it and would want the full rigours of the law imposed on a man who does it.

Your basis for this glaring inequality?

"He might rape or murder me".

No. That's not how it works.

The fact of the matter is, the fear you are pushing is no way backed up by statistics or facts and it is mostly men who are in danger from other men.

You also downplay violence carried out by women to men as if it is a laughing matter. I implore you to look at the statistics around domestic abuse and the disparity in supports one side has over the other.

I've worked closely with male victims of domestic abuse and am all to aware of what some women who have suffered at the hands of men.

To glibly say that there is an epidemic of male on female violence and harassment and that men aren't doing enough but all the while encouraging the notion that violence against men isn't as serious an issue is insulting to male victims of violence and a contributing factor to the growing suicide rate in men.

Males have a proven track record of violence? Would you be comfortable levying that sort of generalisation on any other group of people?

<snip>

Leg End Reject · 19-01-2022 6:29pm

@CreadanLady, your language is quite telling.

"Women" and "males" rather than women and men.

TooTired123 · 19-01-2022 6:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501221#Comment_118501221

Long long ago I said that if I had a son I would have brainwashed him by now into automatically leaving a room if there was only one other woman, and that woman was a stranger. Just excuse yourself politely and leave quickly.

Fishdoodle · 19-01-2022 6:36pm

I’ve been stalked home once - it was scary, I was by myself and had a knife pulled on me. I was very very lucky to escape! If I were a female this (today) would be gender based. Whilst I do feel women are more vulnerable in many situations, unprovoked assaults should be treated as such regardless of gender.

19-01-2022 6:39pm

They could update the Covid tracker app to include these licences.

Fully vaccinated / He's a good 'un.

Fully Vaccinated / This ones a bit dodgy, in fairness. Mind yourself.

And so on.

19-01-2022 6:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501348#Comment_118501348

Would you think if that happened to you, it would be acceptable to blame all gay people for the arse pinch that man gave you and to view all gay men as potential rapists?

walshb · 19-01-2022 6:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501139#Comment_118501139

A pinch on the bottom, really, how affected can one be, male or female?

Not at all downplaying sexual assault, but it's getting ridiculously blurred and diluted

I am not saying sexual assaults' can only be violent rapes, but there really are levels to it, and a bottom pinch in my view barely makes it to the table.

Leg End Reject · 19-01-2022 6:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501459#Comment_118501459

Man: "would you like to go out for a drink sometime?"

Woman: "Do you have a full or provisional man licence? Any endorsements? How many miles on the clock?"

Leg End Reject · 19-01-2022 6:56pm

I'm not sure such a one-sided approach will be successful.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2022/0119/1274674-dail-violence-against-women/

zv2 · 19-01-2022 6:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501302#Comment_118501302

Just because female violence is usually not physical does not mean it is not violence. Right now there are men drinking in pubs because they cannot bear to be under the same roof as the woman he married. Feminism has unleashed a torrent of gender violence against men on the pretext of a false narrative and hateful tropes. Violence against men is everywhere; in the home, the workplace everywhere. Most of the violence I have come up against was from women. It may not be physical but it is violence just the same.

19-01-2022 7:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501348#Comment_118501348

I'm bisexual... and I've been to many gay bars/clubs over the years, and in many different countries. To suggest that most men have no understanding of the risks involved is ridiculous, because like me, many men are weaker than other men. They might be less experienced at fighting, less confident, or simply that the other guy has some friends along. And yes, I have been pinched, slapped on the ass, my balls or chest groped, with creepy guys (and a few women) slobbering over me.

I get the impression that when people talk about "men" they're focusing on heterosexuals and imagining that their experiences are limited to a conventional kind of life... but there's quite a few gay and bisexual males knocking around... and many of us would have experiences of abusive encounters.

At the same time though, I was thinking of a friend of mine (hetero) who has been in an abusive relationship for years, whose wife is bigger/stronger than him, and he hasn't the personality to fight back against her. He's shown up to meetings with his friends sporting bruises, and I know he's gone to hospital a few times for problems when his wife was drunk. He stays with her because he knows that he won't get custody of the children, and he doesn't want to leave them alone with her. I've had my own experience of an abusive girlfriend who assaulted me, and who relied on the taboo of hitting a woman, to get away with it... thankfully, I got out of it without any serious injury.

The point is that many men know the fear of being abused or assaulted... either from other men, and/or from women. This is not an experience that is exclusive to women. They don't have tabs on being vulnerable or at risk.

My experiences taught me to be careful... and to avoid certain types of people, but also the kind of places where those people congregate. Take precautions. Have friends I can trust nearby. Don't trust strangers. But at the same time, it didn't teach me to see all men or all women as a danger. That's no way to live, and its incredibly unfair to the vast majority of people, who are decent, and won't be a dick (and yes, a woman can behave like a dick too).

19-01-2022 7:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501379#Comment_118501379

So you'll keep shifting goalposts. Grand. Not following you anymore on this one.

jackboy · 19-01-2022 7:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501553#Comment_118501553

I wouldn’t use the word violence for that which I think should be confined to the physical. Women are subjected to much more physical violence than men when it comes to interactions between the sexes, I think there is little doubt about that. When it comes to extremely damaging verbal attacks and controlling behaviour, there is not much difference between the sexes. That is actually a far more widespread problem.

CreadanLady · 19-01-2022 7:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501553#Comment_118501553

Violence is physical force by definition. You mean emotional abuse.

Fishdoodle · 19-01-2022 7:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501553#Comment_118501553

I’ve experienced unprovoked verbal assaults/regular harassment in the workplace and when alone - female bosses in powerful “masculine energy’ positions. Is this women acting like men?? That said, I bear no grudges towards females! Bad apples are bad apples. I’m sure situations occur more regularly toward women - yet, an uncomfortable experience regardless of gender!

19-01-2022 7:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501615#Comment_118501615

Women are subjected to much more physical violence than men, I think there is little doubt about that.

Um, the statistics would object to that. Men are subjected to more physical violence than women... by a rather large degree in fact.

And... women are more likely to use emotional attacks than physical ones.. naturally enough, considering the differences in biological strength.. but compare the kind of violence that occurs within female groups vs that of male groups. Men are more likely to resort to physical aggression as a result of anger.. women resort to emotional or verbal attacks. The same can be said about controlling behaviors/coercion, depending on the groups in question.

19-01-2022 7:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501622#Comment_118501622

Oh so you dispute women's aids report of:

Six percent of Irish women have experienced sexual violence and 31% of women have experienced psychological violence by a current or former partner since age 15

That's a shame. It would have suited your narrative.

jackboy · 19-01-2022 7:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501650#Comment_118501650

Yeah I agree with that. I have edited my post.

zv2 · 19-01-2022 7:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501622#Comment_118501622

Oh no no no. Hold on there. Violence is psychic/emotional/psychological/physical. Many, many men are subject to the most horrendous violence in the home and outside it. I know. I've been there. There's very little you can tell me about female domestic violence.

zv2 · 19-01-2022 7:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501622#Comment_118501622

nine_types_of_violence.pdf (gov.nl.ca)

AckwelFoley · 19-01-2022 7:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501468#Comment_118501468

I was replying to a comment that a pinch on the bum is a sexual assault and only a problem if a woman is on the receiving end of it because of how they may feel.

I've had women touch my groin, ass and on more than one occasion run their hands up under my shirt.

I don't agree that the action should be viewed any differently because of the perceived reaction or feelings of any party.

If my wife hits me in the face, should that be considered less of an assault than if I hit her in the face merely because 3 times her size?

anewme · 19-01-2022 7:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501302#Comment_118501302

100%

There are a small number of men here who are threatened by any proposed changes to help women feel safer in public.

When those changes happen, because its not if, its when, they will be on here hosting an even bigger pity party giving out about all sorts.

Despite being told again, again and again that this is not about being murdered, that its a culture change that is long overdue, once they are not murderers, they are unable to see that there is a drive for change.

There might be more of them here, but in the wider public, they are a minority, so time's up for everyday harassment, intimidation and disrespecting boundaries and personal space. They need to get over the persecution complex.

amacca · 19-01-2022 7:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501547#Comment_118501547

Such bolox.........enforce the laws that are already there, apply consequences for repeat anti social offences , boost community policing, visible police presence etc etc

They really are a nest of cretins hell bent on twin goals of deflecting attention away from the difficult decisions they should be taking but have failed to do ( at least since I took an interest) and feathering their own nests....I doubt there is anything they wouldn't support/say if they thought it would further their careers regardless of how ineffective or potentially destructive it is........ its depressing how easily the majority falls for this bull plop....they should be made adopt policies that work backed up by the data/stats from first principles with no sacred cows like supporting the industry that has grown out of recidivism.

At least mcentee seems to be somewhat aware from her comments its all smoke and mirrors.....I wonder is she playing along and intends to actually use this to do something useful....I won't hold my breath but maybe she actually is interested in justice and fairness regardless of gender.

19-01-2022 7:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501817#Comment_118501817

Divide and conquer, that's what it's all about.

To make domestic "abuse" prosecutable without making a majority of both men and women lawbreakers will be quite the feat.

zv2 · 19-01-2022 7:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501822#Comment_118501822

Exactly. Almost anything can be construed to be violence. "S/he shouted at me!" lol

JoChervil · 19-01-2022 8:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501598#Comment_118501598

I am not. Later means any time afterwards.

19-01-2022 8:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501822#Comment_118501822

It's clear as day that 99.9% of men have nothing but revulsion against what happened and do not condone sexual assault in any way.

Yet somehow, some of these lunatics are trying to say that they view all men as potential threats and simultaneously expect men to protect them.

Misogyny didn't kill that girl.

Men didn't kill that girl.

A man did.

A man who people are condemning as strong as humanly possible.

I'll continue to not rape or murder anyone nor will i condone it. I will ensure, to the best of my ability, that nobody I know rapes or murders anyone. I will do whatever I can to thwart any rape or murders I happen to come across.

Funnily enough, I don't just mean women. I mean anyone.

I love the women in my life and I'm damned if I am going to let them grow up thinking that the world is harder for a woman than it is for a man.

john123470 · 19-01-2022 8:25pm

Leafing thru one UK newspaper today :

"Female PE teacher, 46, who groomed, controlled and sexually abused teenage pupil over five years then offered to pay £10,000 when she threatened to tell the police is jailed for six years .."

"Toddler who was 'beaten to death by his mother, 24, and her boyfriend was told to 'shut up' and warned he was 'ruining the fun' in harrowing recordings taken before he died from crushed ribs', court hears . "

"Woman, 35, who groomed a 'highly vulnerable' teenage boy, 15, via mobile phone messages for sex is jailed for five years .."

"Ghislaine Maxwell is set to be sentenced for sex trafficking crimes on June 28 . "

One wonders who needs protection from whom

jimwallace197 · 19-01-2022 8:32pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2022/0119/1274674-dail-violence-against-women/

So lets eradicate violence against women, what about violence against men??

Stalking, where do we draw the line, does simply checking on an ex's facebook status make you guilty of this? because in truth, women are far more guilty of this in my experience.

What kind of a society is Ireland trying to build here? One that men are terrified of even approaching a woman or engaging in conversation with them. Grand so, immigration will go up. I for one, don't want to live in a country like this where men are vilified the way they are & I have a lot of reasons to stay here but **** this.

Its frankly disgusting the level of bias & discrimination the Government are engaging in. Id have a little more respect for them if this wasnt as a result of some random murder by a psycho who isn't even from Ireland.

This so called Justice Minister inherited her position from Daddy, spent a very limited time working in the real world(in truth knows **** all about the real world) & is now pandering as much as possible to the insidious feminist agenda in this country.

jackboy · 19-01-2022 8:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501984#Comment_118501984

I think violence against children is a separate topic which Irish society is not ready to discuss or deal with yet.

There are some effective actions men can take to lessen womens fear but very little men can do to stop the violent attacks. If a man attacks gets convicted and then is quickly allowed back on the streets then all the proposals being discussed will not help.

AyeGer · 19-01-2022 8:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501462#Comment_118501462

Of course not.

john123470 · 19-01-2022 8:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118502024#Comment_118502024

"Its frankly disgusting the level of bias & discrimination the Government are engaging in. Id have a little more respect for them if this wasnt as a result of some random murder by a psycho who isn't even from Ireland.

This so called Justice Minister inherited her position from Daddy, spent a very limited time working in the real world(in truth knows **** all about the real world) & is now pandering as much as possible to the insidious feminist agenda in this country .."

Disgusting is the word.

Frightening how inept and useless she is.

Pass the buck onto the "sheeple". Let them thrash it out amongst themselves

Disgusting, yes

walshb · 19-01-2022 8:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501553#Comment_118501553

I’d say they’re in the boozer because with a skinful a gargle the wife looks a whole lot better come lights out!!!

AckwelFoley · 19-01-2022 8:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501910#Comment_118501910

I agree with most of what you posted in this thread to some degree or other.

But I disagree with you on your last comment. I'd hands down always prefer being a man over being a woman. I don't have any brothers, I've 2 sisters and I have a daughter and there is no question in my mind, it's harder to be a woman than it is a man in a whole host of ways.

Other cultures aside where its frankly shocking how they treat women, but in this society, its hard being a woman.

Having watched my wife give birth to 3 of our children (which I'm sure you may have seen in your own family) I remember thinking to myself, regardless of what happens between us, you I can't but admire and have a serious respect what she's gone through.

Women, get paid less, women have to often sacrifice career v family.

That's not to belittle to pressures and struggles men have to deal and high suicide rate among men, with but given the choice, I'll choose being man every time

walshb · 19-01-2022 9:00pm

Women do not get paid less. There are laws that make it illegal to discriminate against people in all walks of life

Alison O’Connor was trotting out this line last week completely unchallenged.

Im sick of the bull around it.

Employers would be absolutely slaughtered if it transpired that they were breaking employment laws by illegally paying women less.

Men and women may get paid less due to circumstances. But there is no basis whatsoever to say women are paid less legally.

19-01-2022 9:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118502095#Comment_118502095

I agree that outside western democracies, women are treated horrendously.

But as for here and now, there's absolutely nothing preventing a young girl growing up and doing whatever she chooses. I'll never have my daughter's think they have it harder or better than anyone based on their colour or their sex.

You just have to look on here to see what growing up feeling you are hard done by does to people.

AckwelFoley · 19-01-2022 9:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118502172#Comment_118502172

It's not really a debatable issue. There's enough published statistics around to show this, aside from the simple fact, if I take x amount of years out to my to have children I'm probably less likely to progress to the higher paying positions

walshb · 19-01-2022 9:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118502257#Comment_118502257

That’s a separate issue. Women get pregnant. We’re hardly to blame for this, or wait, maybe we are.

There are robust equal pay laws that protect all people.

AckwelFoley · 19-01-2022 9:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118502274#Comment_118502274

I hope I'm to blame for my wife getting pregnant or else we have a serious issue! But, that aside, yes she got pregnant but I got to trot off to work while she was literally holding the baby. So yes, women do have children, men do too, but it doesn't affect our career.

On the pay issue, a lot of it is societal. Jobs that were traditionally seen as women's jobs like child care and office admin are sh1t paying opposed to the boys going into trades or whatnot.

DontHitTheDitch · 19-01-2022 9:19pm

Women on average earn less, but they aren't paid less. You have to factor in part-time work, less inclination to pursue roles that demand lots of overtime, high risk jobs etc.

Beechwoodspark · 19-01-2022 9:23pm

Name and details of the accused charged in court just announced

slovakian national

Beechwoodspark · 19-01-2022 9:24pm

You have to ask What in hell has happened to our country

amacca · 19-01-2022 9:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118502322#Comment_118502322

It may be a cliche ...but our media has a lot to answer for imo

Maybe it's rose tinted glasses but I think I remember when they had some minimum standards.

19-01-2022 9:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118502257#Comment_118502257

The pay gap myth is a separate issue but one I'll gladly chat with you about on a separate thread. I do honestly think you'll be surprised.

jimwallace197 · 19-01-2022 9:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118502359#Comment_118502359

Of course not, just pointing out the ridiculous vilification of men over the last week.

Do men need a license to be allowed socialise (MOD NOTE IN OP)

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