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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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    #12452
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,804 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505435#Comment_118505435

    Yeah, good to have close calls in the squad.

    I was thinking more that we need to get that team on the pitch together at some stage, not necessarily first up or even the majority of matches. Was just thinking ahead a bit and trying to factor that in.



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    #12453
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,106 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505435#Comment_118505435

    The notion that basically anyone is playing better than VdF at the moment is a bit mad. He's one of the absolute top players in the country currently. I'd be confident in going one further and say he's one of the best in Europe.



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    #12454
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 6,014 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118503984#Comment_118503984

    An article written by a kiwi pundit about a match 4 years ago. That's case closed. And clearly whoever wrote that is clearly a wise rugby sage. After all Smith has disappeared into obscurity. Has he even played another test since then? And obviously Marmion and Du Pont are the 2 best halfbacks in the world these days.



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    #12455
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 17,170 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505446#Comment_118505446

    Agreed. He's been one of Ireland's most consistently good performers for a year now.

    I'd say the same thing about Kelleher. He's now comfortably Ireland's first choice hooker and one of the best in Europe. I'm very encouraged by Sheehan's good form, but Kelleher is the the same age and playing at a level or two beyond that. Doesn't seem to get the same amount of headlines though.



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    #12456
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505269#Comment_118505269

    Farrell gatland and scmidt while he was in charge disagree with that. Their not picking murray for the craic



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    #12457
    Sangre
    Registered Users Posts: 12,169 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505354#Comment_118505354

    VDF has probably been the best player in Ireland for 18 months. He ain't going anywhere.



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    #12458
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,804 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505585#Comment_118505585

    Timoney has also been good and he’s bigger and stronger and has bags of pace as well as being younger and more adaptable to cover more positions. He’s also a great poacher.



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    #12459
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,598 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505585#Comment_118505585

    Small point but over 12 months, he’s definitely in the conversation. I’d have Henshaw and Beirne ahead of him personally.

    But 18 months isn’t accurate. He had a poor ANC.



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    #12460
    Bogwoppit
    Registered Users Posts: 2,721 ✭✭✭Bogwoppit


    Marmion isn’t even the best scrum half in Connacht, why is he even being discussed?



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    #12461
    CowboyTed
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭CowboyTed


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118504310#Comment_118504310

    Aki over Ringrose... Can't see why we would break up the best partnership in Europe from last year... Aki didn't loose a game in an Irish jersey last year and is a test lion... Ringrose in good form but Aki earned his place... To me it is either Henshaw or Ringrose at 13... Henshaw all day at 13, think he is the best 13 in Europe if not the world... With Aki inside him he doesn't have to cover for him in defence, makes him even bigger threat...



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    #12462
    ClanofLams
    Registered Users Posts: 4,224 ✭✭✭ClanofLams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506042#Comment_118506042

    Connacht are fortunate to have two strong scrum halves for probably the first time in their history. You must not have seen Connacht this season, Marmion has clearly established himself as first choice.



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    #12463
    CowboyTed
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭CowboyTed


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118504785#Comment_118504785

    Could you tell us this mythical 3 out halves that never make mistakes and will win the 6N on his own?

    Carty takes risks, look at the team he plays on, they don't have a dominate pack and it is shallow on numbers too.. When in that position you have to take risks or loose(one of the great reasons to watch Connacht)..

    Even the kicking last weekend in the last 20 min was calculated... They didn't have a team to play Rugby... Set piece defence was virtually gone and becoming a penalty machine for the opposition... So he played kick tennis in a hope that he could avoid scrums and driving mauls...

    So please tell us:

    Could you tell us this mythical 3 out halves that never make mistakes and will win the 6N on his own?



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    #12464
    CowboyTed
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭CowboyTed


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505458#Comment_118505458

    You were saying that Marmion is overrated... That alone shows you the levels he has achieved...

    But simply he has out played some of the best Scrum Halves around this year... He outplayed Wigglesworth, Casey(twice), Youngs, McGrath (he was very poor), Ryss Webb & Doak in his last 6 games... Unless Murray has a pack that can slow the game a crawl, Marmion could do damage there too... JGP would be the interesting one...



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    #12465
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506316#Comment_118506316

    well ted, you show me where i said we have three OH’s that never make mistakes?

    The simple fact is that Carthy is playing the best rugby this season of any of the out halves and deserves his place in the squad.

    The unfortunate thing is that if picked to play (I think) he is not good enough for us to win a 6N.


    If picking a 10 for a fantasy rugby 6 nations team then Carthy would not be anywhere near people top 5.



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    #12466
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506316#Comment_118506316
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506316#Comment_118506316

    Do you not think you are managing to contradict yourself there in two consecutive posts? Either performances are looked it in the context of team performances, or their not. You can’t have it both ways, to suit your rather clouded viewpoint.



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    #12467
    Must love hardship
    Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506210#Comment_118506210

    Aki was sent off in his last 6 nations match for a high hit. Has seen red before in the WC and as recently as last week his discipline got him in hot water again and witha ref we have during this 6 nations. He will be watched very closely by referees this year if he plays.

    Saying all that I think the 4 centres selected are probably the strongest group of 4 centres we have picked for a number of years. Especially when you think Frawley, Farrell and mccluskey are all left out.

    I think henshaw and aki are picked as 12's and henshaw is superior and ringrose and Hume are picked as 13's and currently ringrose is ahead there for now..

    Personally I'd love to see 12 Henshaw, 13 Hume and 14 Ringrose but doubtful.



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    #12468
    Sangre
    Registered Users Posts: 12,169 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505648#Comment_118505648

    I was including Leinster and Ireland performances but take your point on ANC although I can't recall him being any worse than anyone else.



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    #12469
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506949#Comment_118506949

    You want to play a player on the wing in the 6nations that has not played there ever if at all?



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    #12470
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,598 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506949#Comment_118506949

    Aki started in each of our best performances and results in the last calendar year. We’ve also seen a level of distribution from him that we hadn’t previously seen, at international level at least.

    I think it’s too simplistic to say Aki and Henshaw are picked as 12’s when Henshaw’s appearances under Farrell have been pretty evenly split between 12 and 13, as far as I’m aware.

    Having said all that, Hume is in brilliant form and Ringrose was back to his best in the Autumn.

    Its going to be a very tight call, whatever way it goes.



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    #12471
    Must love hardship
    Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118507071#Comment_118507071

    I'm not asking him to fly a spaceship or perform brain surgery.. its play winger. One position out from his current position. Where he is an excellant reader of the game and could perform on the wing.

    He has filled in at 9 in the past. I belive he is fairly adaptable.

    I think ireland can be too rigid with only picking played in pigeon holed positions.

    Look at Fickou at France most commonly known as a centre but played on the wing v Ireland 2 years ago. Adam Ashley-Cooper another who you could pick across the back line. Even Gordan D'Arcy when he broke through was a full back/wing before ending up in the centre.

    Not all experiments work like henshaw v england but id personally love to see it



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    #12472
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,598 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118507019#Comment_118507019

    The Wales game in particular is the one that jumps out from that period. He was very ineffectual, in a game where we had a large majority of possession.

    Since then tho, he’s improved his carry so much that it’s almost a cliche at this point.



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    #12473
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,598 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118507125#Comment_118507125

    I don't think we can read too much into him filling it at 9, during a sin-bin period. That was very much an "in case of emergency" scenario, in the same way we've had Marmion and even POM on the wing.

    Having said that, my initial reaction was similar to Lawrence's, but JJ for England, along with Fickou, is another example of a centre starting on the wing, so maybe there is something to it. tho I'm not familiar with how often they play there for their clubs. As far as I'm aware, Ringrose hasn't started there for Leinster since he first broke on the scene.



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    #12474
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,256 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118479623#Comment_118479623

    I think the approach is inconsistent with how well the players are playing. Beirne has been out best second row and still he isn't picked to start these games. Ryan hasn't been our best second row and he's the "first name on the teamsheet" regardless.

    I'm taking issue with, what I see as, an inconsistency.



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    #12475
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118507125#Comment_118507125

    Tighthead is one position out from hooker.


    Maybe just maybe, and i might be coming out of leftfield here but maybe he should play there for his club the once before we jettison a perfectly good winger to put a center in his place.



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    #12476
    jimdemp
    Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭jimdemp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506949#Comment_118506949

    Ringrose at 14? are you having a laugh? Aki and Henshaw will start against the big teams france and England. Ringrose probably 13 against lighter team wales and scotland. Hume maybe Italy.



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    #12477
    jimdemp
    Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭jimdemp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506391#Comment_118506391

    Marmion is currently the form 9 and i dont think Casey can reach the level of Marmion as a player. Murray is the slowest 9 in world rugby and holds the record for box kicks in professional rugby by a distance. Munster media have hyped up casey from day 1 and his silly singing video on his first game. I think Farrell is keeping the munster media happy with some selections and who can blame him going by the Van Gran treatment



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    #12478
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,106 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    I said the exact same thing in the Autumn - we have three quality second rows and three quality centres (maybe 4 if Hume stepped up, I think every indication he can, but we just haven't seen it yet at international level). I find it extremely difficult to really get too bothered by which way the 2 into 3 goes in any of those positions.

    I would be very surprised if there's any non-enforced deviations from the team that beat NZ - and rightly so because it was our best performance in years. Lowe is an enforced absence so has to be replaced. Everyone else who is fit will play imo.



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    #12479
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 17,170 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Henshaw has played twice this season. I'm really not sure if he'll be ready for the Wales game. Especially if he doesn't play for Leinster this weekend.

    Ringrose will start every game bar maybe the Italy one. He's the best 13 in the squad.



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    #12480
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,106 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118507522#Comment_118507522

    I would tend to agree that Ringrose will play, yep. And that's what I think will happen as opposed to me picking a team, I think Farrell will pick him. He's been excellent this season and we all saw how he performed in the Autumn.



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    #12481
    CowboyTed
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭CowboyTed


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506042#Comment_118506042

    Marmion is the clear number 1 in Connacht this season...

    Blade is a very fine player and it shows when he was called in to Ireland during the Summer...

    At present, Connacht have probably the strongest SH pairing in Ireland...

    Casey is not the Number one in his province... Harry Byrne was actually Number three... Luke McGrath was brought into Irealnd as the number 2 in Leinster...



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