Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

The main thing is keeping the main thing, the main thing

Options
1133134136138139155

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭Lambay island


    I'd like to know the mechanics behind that too as another who had cramp issues in latter stages of a marathon



  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭E.coli


    AMK I feel might be coming at it from a slightly different angle than me so he can probably weigh in from his perspective

    Without going too technical into the actual mechanics (can google sliding filament theory to get more of an insight) Think of muscles as a giant pulley system on the skeleton the pull and release. Cramping occurs when they no longer release (very simplified)

    Cramps are by no means a figured out thing and can be a whole host of reasons for it. Dehydration is a huge factor and given hamstrings are among the 1st muscled to dehydrate in the body (from a running perspective anyway) this can be a primary cause for many. Calcium/Vitamin D is also another variable

    Injury history also plays a roll and inadequate rehab protocols following muscle tears leads to adhesions in the muscle fibres and or scar tissue which is essentially the bodies patch up job. The muscle fibres piece back together but without the functionality of healthy fibres.

    As your body fatigues muscle fibres exhaust and the fibres no longer release and the body moves on to using the next ones, once it runs out of alternatives they are trying to continue to contract to shorten the muscle without the release phase. This means that in order to avoid the cramping the muscle fibres need to either a) be more fatigue resistant through training and recruiting more. Our training is designed around recruiting as many slow twitch fibres as possible because these are more fatigue resistant than fast twitch fibres.

    The reason for my suggestion of the max hills sprints (and or heavy weights) is based around Canova principles. Basically it has been shown that fast twitch fibres are trainable to take on characteristics of Slow twitch fibres which is a larger pool of fibres that can be recruited to train. This slightly shifted how marathon running was approached as there was value in max velocity sprinting. Unfortunately these FT fibres exhaust very quickly without being trained hence with 6 second sprints are important because any more and you are not really recruiting them. Some prescribe slightly longer (10 - 12 seconds) but this is more down to the fact that people's acceleration takes the few seconds to hit max velocity so

    This are not specific to Canova training however, Lydiard was of the same believe though he achieved this sort of stimulus through his hill phase in his training blocks

    Post edited by E.coli on


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Great to read the above - many thanks!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Monday: Didn't think I'd get to run today as I had a hospital appt - but came out the better for it with positive news.

    I've had some lifestyle vouchers burning a hole in my pocket for a while, so went to Liffey Valley on my way home and tried on the Boston 10's - I've wanted a firmer shoe for a while now as a daily 'workhorse' rotation - I think the soft foams in the Nikes/Fuel Cells are too soft - so is good to mix it up with a firmer ride every now & then. I hear they take 20-30 miles to break in - so will give them time.

    Went out for a few miles early evening. Noticeable stretch in the evenings - I did like the Bostons - I had no preconceived ideas about how 'bostons' used to be, so this was an entirely unbiased view of the shoe and I really liked it. Firm for a max cushioning shoe and will defo try some MP stuff in them as well as easy paced work.

    6m / 8.15 pace

    Tuesday: Running on Monday opened up a window for me to get a session on Tuesday (I dont like doing a session after a rest day) - but I knew I'd be tired from Sundays 20 miler.

    I prepped well for this on Tues - ate a good breakfast and lunch - a bit of stretching and felt good. Was delayed with work meetings so didn't get out until near 6.

    The JD plan called for 4x2T + 2x1T : I suspect this is a typo as doing 10m of T work on a 55-70 plan is madness. I set out with the intention of doing 4x2m and reducing the WU from 5m to 3m.

    3m WU to CK gate and set off - I'd be using the North Road/C'Field 2m loop for this. I wore my New'ish TC's and noted they felt much more slippy than the older pairs. Maybe some breaking in required.

    1st set: 1st mile felt great but once I turned up C'Field it slowed slightly - still too fast for both miles in this rep (5.52/5.59)

    2nd Set: after a 2min recovery - got going again and again was very enthusiastic initially. (5.48/6.06)

    I considered doing a 3m MP run next as the legs were really feeling it at this stage, but said I'd do a mile at tempo and see how I felt.

    3rd Set: 2min Rec - No need for the MP or doing single miles yet as I kept going after a mile and actually felt good. Towards the end of the 2nd mile I could hear my hamstrings shouting at me. (5.52/6.04)

    4th Set: Sundays long run was catching me fast so I agreed with myself to do 2x1m (off 1 min) rather than 2miles straight.

    1m at 5.59 and 1m at 6.05 and I was on fumes finishing - no way I'd do 1 more rep.

    just under 3 miles home for 14m total.

    Happy with this, given how I felt after Sundays long run. 8m at tempo pace is no joke no matter how you break it up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    From recollection you have big clown feet but I’ve a pair of UK 9.5 Boston 10’s looking for a good home……



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 4,847 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Good to hear you got good news in the hospital! Great running again. I can’t get over the speed! Keep it up!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Wednesday 12th: A short recovery run - tired legs today - the Sunday long run and Tuesday session catching up with me.

    3.5m / 8.45 pace.

    Thursday 13th: I wanted to do something longer than the usual 7-8m to tire the legs out in advance of Saturdays HM at MP effort. The intention was to make the HM feel like the 2nd half of a Marathon.

    I ran down to the PP an out to the Quays - then running home - which is all uphill. Was very tired during this and felt under fueled from early on.

    Got home and ordered a take away as was quite hungry and not bothered to cook.

    11.4m / 8.10 pace.

    Friday: Easy paced run with 6x20 sec Strides - legs felt tired.

    5.3m

    Saturday 15th: World Half Marathon Festival: Donadea Forest - 11:30 throw in.

    Pre-race:

    I woke up on Saturday morning with a dodgy tummy, as if I had eaten something. Normally I'd blame the race nerves or the Beet it shots, but neither were a factor today (didn't have either) - but was glued to the toilet for quite a while.

    Headed off at 10'ish for this and got there at 10:40am - met up with 2 others who are also doing Seville (AJ & Paul) - I reckoned AJ had a good chance in the ladies race today.

    We done a warm up together - noting right away that it was colder than I envisaged and was a bit heavier under foot than I thought - the earlier race would have done some damage to the course. It was fine in places, but also slippy & mucky in others.

    I changed my race plan from 10m MP + 3m Tempo to just getting around at close to MP - I knew the later miles would be difficult. I also knew from the warm up that GPS would be a hindrance due to tree cover and my pace (according to my Garmin) was going from 5.30/mile to 12 min miles in the space of a few seconds.

    we got close to a 4m WU & some strides done - along with another 2 loo stop's for me - had a chat with Sean Hehir who won the earlier race and went down to the start line.

    I was one of the last people at the start line and I knew that the field wouldn't be that deep - I was hoping I wouldn't be on my own for the race.

    Race:

    The race started nearly bang on time - starting on a different part of the course and joining the 5k loop - 4 loops of the 5k.

    Within 1 min of the start, 2 lads went off ahead at a faster pace - probably 6.10's - I settled in at 6:30's and a bunch behind me. I noted the clothes on the 2 ahead for future ref - a clonliffe vest and a long black top.

    We made it around to the Finish line for the start of the 4 laps and there was 5.45 on the clock - a buddy of mine who done the earlier race told me there was a group about 50m behind me - gonna be a solo run I said to him, laughing. Soon after mile 1 beeped in 6.28.

    I could see the lead bike and the 2 lads ahead, so just settle in - the garmin was bouncing around, but every now and then got a signal that I believed.

    I kept going, watching the lads get further ahead but feeling ok'ish - wasn't feeling great in the legs, but that was the intention of the last few days to tire the legs out.

    Mile 2 beeped 6.30 and I was on a long stretch of nothingness - at one stage I thought I was going up a hill and then a good downhill, but wasn't sure (I'd know for sure on later laps) - mile 3 beeped at 6.05 and I didn't believe it - maybe it was accurate?? I dont know but it didn't feel like a 6.05.

    The 4th mile was tough - I passed by the water station and it was especially slippy on this stretch - mile 4 beeped 6.43 and it felt like a 6.43.

    I noted the clock as I went under it was just over 25 mins - so a 20min 5k - just what I wanted - the next time I'd pass it would be on 45 mins.

    The lead bike stopped as it was only doing the 1st lap and the 2 lads were now out of sight, theres a point on the course when you tun right by the water and you can see behind you - I noted no one behind me. This was going to be tougher than I thought.

    Without a lead bike or anyone ahead of me, I got a feeling that I was going the wrong direction - I very nearly turned back on myself, but perservered to the junction ahead and it turned out to be ok.

    At this stage, I was getting an idea of the course and that there would be slower miles and faster miles based on the hills and the heavy ground.

    Miles 5 & 6 passed uneventfully 6.36/6.22 - I hadn't a clue what pace I was running at - I was primarily going on effort and taking the pace at the beeps - hoping it was accurate. The clock every lap would help.

    I tried to grab water from the unmanned water station, but missed it - kept going and decided to take a Maurten Gel - I felt starving at this stage and devoured it. My stomach started gurgling right away.

    Mile 7 (6.37) brought me back to the Finish line (45 mins on the clock) and I was in mind games territory right away - 1 more lap to 1 lap to go. I lap of the PP left. So far I'd gone 7 miles solo and was just starting to enjoy it - takes me a while to get into it.

    At about 8 miles I seen people ahead - I was beginning to lap people - this motivated me a bit, but that went as there were only a couple.

    Made a grab for water again at 9 miles and got it - swigging sown a mouthful - hearing the stomach gurgle again. I didn't take any more water or gels.

    Lap 3 was another 20 min lap with 1.05 on the clock. (mile 8/9/10 were 6.45/6.33/6.29) - each lap was displaying similar pace characteristics.

    So 1 more lap to go - I was holding 3rd spot and knew no one was behind me. My legs felt zapped from the ground and tired from the hard week - but 3 miles left. Mile 11 felt like a slow mile and when 6.52 popped on the screen, I gave myself a good talking to. Lets get moving.

    Some more back markers came into play and I passed them, getting and giving encouragement.

    Mile 12 was a better 6.35 and as I was settling in for a nice last mile taking over the numerous back markers, I seen a guy in a long black top appear from the trees ahead - looking over his shoulder. $hit - theres '2nd place guy' I said. Can I catch him?? I didn't think so.

    He looked behind again and I knew he was in trouble - I upped the pace and planned my overtaking move - didn't want to do it too soon. He tried to surge, but it only lasted a few steps, so I knew he was toast.

    We were coming to the water station with a crowd of people ahead - I judged it perfectly and went around the outside of them as he went on the inside - I was sprinting (or what felt like it) and didn't stop till I crossed the line. The last mile was a 6.05 with a good burst for the final 0.1.

    Finished in 1.25.04 holding onto 2nd place.

    I was hoping originally for a 1.23 but with the solo run for the best part of 13 miles, the lack of pace feedback,the heavy ground and the undulating nature of the route - I was very happy with 1.25 and 2nd place.

    AJ and Paul came in 1 min later - AJ won the womens race in a fantastic time - her last lap was 30 seconds faster than mine - so she ran superbly.

    All very happy - we knew we had raced solidly - got some photos with Anto Rocky and back to the cars to change.

    Our cool down was funny at the start as we were struggling to run 12 min miles (real 12 min miles)

    We done another lap cooldown in the opposite direction - taking note that there was a significant hill in the route as we went down it. Looked bigger going down than going up.

    3m cool down for 20 miles for the day.

    All happy heads on the way home.


    Sunday: A nice easy hour - legs felt fairly good, despite the few pints on Sat night!

    7m / 8.30 pace.

    67 miles for the week



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,457 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Nice one! 5k splits is definitely the way to pace it in there. And with no one threatening from behind, would you not have slowed down to make sure you got the water at those unmanned stops?

    Great work. I know the feeling of running those laps solo, as there usually wasn't anyone at my pace after a few laps, the times I raced there - so lapping the back markers really does help with the concentration alright.

    Hope Anto had a medal ready for that performance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭Lambay island


    Fair play. I wouldn't fancy the initial solo part where you were unsure of the route. That's enough to put many off. Nicely done.



  • Advertisement


  • Well done, a great read. Did you get any prize for 2nd place?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Thanks all.

    Regarding the water - I didn't really want water - I just wanted to practice getting water - and I failed :) - I did slow down, but didn't back track on myself.

    Being unsure of the route was all on me - the Bike led the way for the 1st lap - I just switched off.

    A prize for 2nd place - I recall motivating myself after 3-4 miles that I'd have an envelope at the end of the race for 3rd place - even coming 2nd - there was no envelope - I know the ladies winner didn't get an envelope either - but a lovely cup.

    Sure we dont do it for the glory of medals or envelopes - we do it for the glory of Boards race reports and Strava Kudos :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,457 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Jaysis. Not even a free entry to next year’s race! 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    Motoring well if that was MP on that terrain! Bodes well for Seville. Well done on your podium result!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,847 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Jaysus, better get onto your strava!! Great run, well done!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭MY BAD


    Nice one well done 👏



  • Registered Users Posts: 361 ✭✭babacool


    True, we don’t do it for the envelope. We do it for what’s in the envelope 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭UM1


    He got free entry for the 12th of feb....I think he may of said fook off



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    1.25 on that terrain/elevation profile in the middle of hard training bodes well. Nice going and always nice to pick up a podium spot.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 631 ✭✭✭Cleanman


    Savage! Well done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 752 ✭✭✭Back in Black


    Well done. To run 1:25 on that terrain is some going. Nice to get a podium place as well!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Monday 17th Jan: Got a text from AJ for a run - so we done a lovely 8m or so pulling apart the Donadea HM and our plans for the coming few weeks. From speaking to her - my training seems nuts but sure I know that.

    8.1m / 8.27 pace

    Tuesday: Busy day in work - not out til 6'ish (& back on later as with most evenings). Body felt a bit tired after the weekend (& being out 2 evenings).

    3m WU / 10x 20sec strides/ 2m CD

    5.8m total

    Wednesday: Session - JD Plan was for 8E+5x1km - but I changed this to one of my goto workouts that I like to do every Marathon cycle.

    Actual session: 2WU/25min MP/5x4mins / 25mins MP/ CD. (MP is actually a tad faster than MP)

    The effect of both sessions is similar for the faster segments - you are doing it on tired legs, so I didn't mind changing it.

    2m WU to the PP (great being out just after 4 in daylight)

    25min MP: I went over to the lumpy side of the park as it was daylight for the 25minMP (6.21/6.25/6.12/6.29) 3.9 miles

    Going up S Bends & Wellington Road is tough but overall its more downhill than uphill.

    Took 3 mins recovery

    5x4 mins at 10k (2 min Rec) - found sections of this tough as was going up Chesterfield and then onto the Plating Pitches by the Acres.

    (5.51/5.42/5.54/5.54/5.45) A bit disappointed by the paces but it was tough - once I was running faster than Tempo pace I was happy.

    2 min Recovery - 25mins at MP (2m loop North Road/C'Field)

    For the 2nd MP session - the thought process is for the ave pace to be faster than the 1st rep. 1st rep pace was 6.20 ave.

    The 1st mile came in at 5.56 - this is the danger of doing MP after faster reps. 2nd Mile was 6.18 and the 3rd mile was again 6.05 (far too fast). I called it at 20 mins as my ave pace for 20 mins was 6.07 - no point slogging for 5 mins at 6.45's as would have been the case.

    A nice 3m home and knew I had done a very tough session.

    16.75 miles on a cold Wednesday evening.


    94th Min: Leicester 2 Spurs 1

    97th Min: Leicester 2 Spurs 3

    What a game!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Great consistency going on here AMK. Very jealous 😭



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Conte's reign will all end in tears. I just don't see how he will survive more than a couple of transfer windows working with Daniel Levy. Will I see it through my own salty tears from the drivel that United are serving up? Maybe, maybe not 😋



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,847 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Brilliant training as always your consistency is so impressive. Wee word of caution on those ‘too fast’ miles, I’d be trying to stick to the pace. I get very F’d off with myself when I go too fast in any sort of run I be thinking I let down the plan which is too negative but with race legs this week, cold weather, flogged in work, more hard work coming now is the time to keep nice and tight to the session. You’re in great form, I bet you can’t wait to get to the race line!! Here, did your stomach clear up ok from the weekend, it must have or you may just go and get the cape now if youre doing that sick!

    And I know you’ll all point out that I’m fulla sh*t and don’t follow my own advice - I’m ok with that! I’ve had to admit the truth a lot with Strava telling tales on me haha



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Thanks for that - yeah - need to keep a lid on it. Stomach was fine actually - must have been something I ate on Friday.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,771 ✭✭✭jebuz


    Some great stuff going on here AMK, even more kudos for getting it done solo. You seem to know what works for you at this stage

    A bit disappointed by the paces but it was tough

    I just picked up on this comment. I wouldn't be disappointed by that. I get this and I'm guilty of it myself but you've said it yourself, it was tough and that's the main thing. The effort was right. So many factors can affect pace in a session, the terrain, your energy, fatigue, the elements, life! Consider the fact 20-30 years ago you just had a stopwatch and you ran for x minutes and that's it - there was no room for disappointment. Job done.

    I don't envy you running reps on those S-Bends but what a good stimulus all the same, you can only improve with sessions like that.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Thursday: 10m easy/ 8.15 pace

    1 thing I done previously was to do a decent 10-13 miles after a session - this has been absent this year, probably because of the fact that I'm not classing this as a goal race - until that it is when the race comes on the horizon and you start panicking!!

    Friday: Gave up a rest day for a 3 mile active recovery.

    3m/8.50 pace.

    Saturday - Considered doing my long run today, but legs still felt a bit Meh from the week they had - so ran easy and done 10 strides.

    6.2 miles / inc 10x20sec strides.

    Sunday: The main aim for todays run was to get 2 hr 50mins of running into them - I considered doing a 4x1m tempoat thestart and end - but the body still felt tired so just went with the vanilla run. I done 5m myself and them met up with 3 others for the remainder -

    great to have company for the miles - made it fly in - I reckon we must have covered every hill and righted every wrong on that run.

    22.2 / 7.42 pace

    Legs were tired afterwards - but I did finish the week on 72 miles, my highest since March 2019 (prior to Rotterdam) - and am putting in a good shift for the last 4 weeks (70/68/67/72).


    4 weeks to Seville - I Just need to keep the motivation to train at a high level next week - 3 weeks out see's a small shift with another small shift 2 weeks out.

    Week 4: Maybe 70 next week all going well - 2 key sessions are a 'must do'.

    Week 3:high 50's/low 60's - 2 sessions + 1 rest day

    Week 2: high 40's - 1 lightish session midweek + light 13 miler.



Advertisement