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Do men need a license to be allowed socialise (MOD NOTE IN OP)

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭john123470


    "so are lesbians allowed in your ridiculously exclusionary imaginary pub? .."

    Absolutely no way !!

    Those Butch lassies with a skinful on board will be more lethal than any hetero man can ever be

    How can you even think to ask such a question !!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭zv2


    CreadanLady: "With the exception of schools, virtually all other forms of segregation according to gender exist so that women are afforded some level of protection against males who might pose a danger to them."

    Segregation in toilets etc. is mainly for privacy and what used to be called 'decency', not because there's a bunch of psychos waiting to jump on people.

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,710 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Although sexual assault would absolutely be considered as well if males and females were allowed share toilet facilities....

    D single biggest issue with males and females today? Trying to make them equal......they are not, and never will be.....and this is something to fooking embrace, not change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,147 ✭✭✭Mister Vain


    Gaydar scanners at the door maybe? Will the biological males identifying as women need a license to socialise or are they exempt?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭zv2


    I agree. Somehow 'equal rights' got mixed up with 'equal'. Inequality is to be celebrated.

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Wonder how that works for bisexual males...? maybe we're only accepted on Tuesdays and Saturdays, being considered the same as straight guys for every other day.

    The mind boggles. Funny though. Kinda.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What happens when there's a rule covering most important aspects of society/culture....? then equal rights is pretty much the same as equality.

    In any case, equal rights seems to be open to interpretation depending on what gender is involved.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I do not get the obsession with single sex toilets. Do people really believe that if we had unisex toilets men just couldn't control themselves around the sexy ladies having a big poo?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm sure people wouldn't have a problem if someone opened a bar but all women and gays had to leave when the kids get kicked out at 7pm.

    Hahaha. Ffs



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,710 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    It's hardly an obsession to think that toilet facilities should be separate

    You cannot legislate for people. Toileting is a personal and intimate act for many people.

    And it's just not at all like you describe it. It's a risk not worth taking. Guaranteed if we shared toilets there would be sexual assaults. You'd have sexual deviants targeting toilets. Ad having a plentiful supply of targets. That is what sexual predators do. They look for targets: There would be uproar if this was allowed and then happened in any establishment. Litigation to beat the band

    plus our toileting habits are different. Women behave differently in toilet settings: Men just go in and do their business and go. Women in clubs, anyway like to meet, chat, do make up and all that female stuff.....it's no place for men....

    See, embrace our differences. Let men be men and women be women.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭zv2


    Women are hormonally different. I think it is damaging to try to make women the same as men. My niece was told in school that she should be an architect. She wasted a year of her life at that before she found her true vocation. They're trying to get women into stem subjects now to make the 'equal'. A lot of girls are going to waste a lot of time. They should be encouraged to find what suits them best.

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,549 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    I'd rather have my poos in private! 😂

    I wouldn't be afraid of sharing a loo with men, but I'd rather a man I was attracted to didn't hear (or smell!) me pooing, or farting, in the next cubicle.

    Peeing and changing tampons wouldn't bother me, just pooing.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Everyone can be who they want, but I have no issue with unisex toilets.

    And sorry but your assertion that sexual assaults would definitely happen has no basis other then your own head, which kinda points to you thinking of men in general as being sexual predators.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,710 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    There are men who are sexual predators. You do realize this, no? And they target women. So, it stands to reason that it could well be the case that sexual predators could target unisex toilet facilities to find their targets.

    And before you jump in. Yes, we all know not all men are sexual predators



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If only life was that simple.

    We have to now:

    Let men be men

    Let women be women

    Let women be men

    Let men be women

    Treat women as completely equal to men

    But don't forget that they aren't

    But make sure that men protect the women

    And even when they do, blame them for anyone that doesn't.



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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Indeed there are, but I don't think all men are sexual predators. Therefore I don't believe that men will turn into rapists because the have a wee wee in the same room as a woman.

    Sexual predators can and do strike anywhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,710 ✭✭✭✭walshb




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thankfully you don't have to.

    Just remember two words:

    Do better



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,710 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    So we actually are pretty much aligned....

    I was more implying that sexual predators would target the facilities....And I said clearly that yes, not all men are sexual predstors.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,710 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    It's tough on us poor men constantly having to resist our urges!!!! :)



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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No, you went back to ninja edit your posts.

    I don't believe all men are predators, therefore I do not fear them being in the same toilet facilities as me, you in the other hand, seem 100% certain that sexual assaults would happen if we shared toilet space. It says something about your mindset, really.

    If a sexual predators wished to target a woman in a toilet he can do it now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,710 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Give over....stop trying to twist what I said....it's clear from my post that I never ever implied ALL men were sexual predators. I said there are men who are....this is fact.

    Nothing to do with any editing. I never made the claim you think you saw.

    Never ever said all men were.

    And yes, men can target women now....but a whole lot easier if we had same toilet facilities....

    Not sure what is difficult to grasp here...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,549 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    If a woman was tempted to have a sneaky look in the general direction of the urinals would that make her a pervert, a sexual predator or both?

    Asking for a friend of course.



  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What’s your opinion on trans self identification. This is pertinent because the trend with self identification is to desegregate spaces.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    But it's that same thinking

    Keep men out of certain spaces/areas because they'll be raping the poor womens



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Men and women are different... and I honestly don't think there's any real attempt to make them the same. There's little to no interest in encouraging women into the less appealing roles that men traditionally fill, just as there's no real attempt to encourage men into caring roles. Yes, there are some people who are outliers in what they want to do, but in the main, the thrust of the "equality" movement is not about actual equality. Otherwise, there wouldn't be so much emphasis on changing work environments to make them more suitable for women (the complaints over workplaces being too competitive being an example).

    As for STEM, along with many areas which supposedly lack female representation, that's not actually the case. It was the same with programming years ago, with claims that there weren't enough women entering the field, when in fact, women left the industry in droves because it didn't suit the manner of work they wanted to do. (the stress of deadlines being unappealing along with the way that career progression happened).

    Girls should be allowed to choose for themselves what they want to do... I completely agree, but that returns us to the supposed gender wage gap, because the choices girls often make, place them in industries which don't earn as much as those that men are more interested in. As so, cries of outrage are made. It's discriminatory that those industries don't pay so well..

    This is not about making women be the same as men. This is about removing gender/sex as an important distinction between two people. Those two people should be judged on their skills, education, ability, rather than whether they're a man or a woman. That's the important part of equality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,710 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    No, it is not

    And by the way, I'd say there are probably more females who would not want shared toilets anyway....so leave as is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 807 ✭✭✭CreadanLady


    Another point to not when it comes to segregated toilets in pubs and clubs, the ladies toilet can be a small safe haven if a woman needs to get away from a man or men for whatever reason. She can be fairly confident of being safe there as there will usually be other women present. Bouncers generally deal with male invasion of womens toilets very severely in clubs.

    The MFV Creadan Lady is a mussel dredger from Dunmore East.



  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭bejeezus


    I think the more self aware you are, the more you come to realise, and allow, men to be both weak and strong, and women to be strong and weak/frail. Meaning you allow men and women to take on stereotypically feminine and masculine traits.

    I know this sounds like philosophical crap, but there is a sound basis for the argument. So often men are afraid to show their emotions for fear they will be called sissies. And women struggle to express anger because it’s seen as being too aggressive and masculine.

    THerefore, we all hide part of ourselves ,and this isn’t healthy. It builds up and causes all sorts of trouble between the sexes. Ps Benjamin and the third sex. Have a look x



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    not wanting something because of privacy or whatever is fair enough, but not wanting it because you think men will become sexual predators is ridiculous!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,549 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    Well there you go then! No need to be afraid to leave the house when you can hide in the sanctuary of the toilets and let the big, burly bouncers chase the bad men away. 😂😂😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,710 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Who said men will “become” sexual predators?

    you are being disingenuous here.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭SamStonesArm


    Oh most definitely not in front of a woman I fancied . Jaysus she wouldn't be long running if she heard and smelt me laying . Separate toilets is the way to stay. Although there is one place here in town (waterford) that has got gender neutral toilets. Ill just have to go somewhere else to drop the kids off at the pool.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    See the replies? No One will get involved according to posters here.

    hopefully some would



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭Higgins5473


    Thought this was quite a good letter in the IT yesterday.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    I’d say leave the toilets alone, as a man it’s nice to be able to get in to drop a turd without queuing to long.



  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭bejeezus


    What’s the root of the violence anyhow??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 861 ✭✭✭p~b


    The media in general have a way of pushing their own agenda to sell papers, fill tv shows and create headlines.

    This week has felt like a bit of a witch hunt in the papers targeting "mainly" Irish men and I think that was a deliberate and easy ply by the media to make their lives easier and create content for papers and television shows.

    I don't think the majority of women in Ireland think that way. Realistically women have husbands, sons, fathers, grandfathers and nephews, so they interact and see every day that 99% men are not bad people. Don't forget that the majority of men are raised by a mother and a father. They receive guidance from a strong female role model from birth. And most men idolize their mothers.

    But I do agree that most women who are murdered in Ireland and around the world are murdered by men and the majority of those are by men in their lives such as their husband or partner. Thankfully cases like the murder of Ashling Murphy are not the norm. I believe that there are just mentally sick people out there, most people wouldn't have it in them to murder someone.

    When you look at the fact that the majority of murderers are men, its interesting because men who suffer from mental issue are less likely to seek help, they are less likely to speak about their emotions and less likely to have someone to confide in and get advice from when suffering.

    So as a society I do think there is an issue with men in general. Not that men are evil, but as a society we have raised men to be a certain way, not to show emotions, just to get on with it and while the majority of men can function on that level, some can't. Some men commit suicide (most suicides are men aged 17 - 45), others (a small minority) feed that emotional emptiness into deviant acts.

    Its also interesting to see that the majority of gang members around the world (eg MS13 & even KKK) are men. The main reason given by these men as to why they joined a gang is rarely about money but it is always mentioned that they wanted to be part of a family and having the support of that group.

    People aren't born evil. I think cultual and historical factors shape people immensely. That's what needs to be fixed in society. Men are expected to act and behave in a certain way which is not healthy.

    I think the idea of separate boys / girls schools should be scrapped. Boys and girls should be raised in the same classroom, where they can mix, share emotions and experiences. At the end of the day why should they be separated, the only difference between them is their gender. They should be raised on the same values and emotional openness during their school life. The same can be said for certain sports like athletics, swimming, volleyball and rowing etc why shouldn't they be mixed. The separating of genders have caused them to develop differently and create a gender norm.

    Also i think couples counseling should be made available for free or a minimal fee. Majority of women killed in Ireland are murdered by a partner. Couples should be able to access support to learn how to deal with and resolve issues within the relationship.

    Also the process of separation and divorces should be examined and streamlined (i.e no separation period), nobody benefits in an unhappy marriage being dragged out for years.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭bejeezus


    Agree with this. Great suggestions



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,269 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Have any of ye worked in a pub?! As someone who cleaned more than his fair share of them during college, I beg you to leave the segregated toilets as they are: even without mentioning the massive queues caused by the girls having a gossip / doing their makeup / sharing lines off the cistern, the ladies bathrooms invariably end up absolutely disgusting. It used to take me at least twice as long to clean the ladies as the gents at the end of the night!



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,841 ✭✭✭buried


    The reason violence and anti-social behaviour is endemic in this country is because the law is a joke. Yet the supposed custodians of it and their pals in governance would rather have everyone believe it is the fault of half the population in order to sow division and hysteria, rather than look at what is actually going on.

    We are supposed to have laws, but once the law is supposed to be implemented and the perpetrator's punished, then the whole sorry thing just falls on top of its own sorry face.

    Even 'The Irish Times' has a report out today showing how domestic violence charges doubled in the period between 2019 to 2020 but most prosecutions were struck out, withdrawn or dismissed.

    Maybe its not all men that need to stand up and do this supposed 'job', maybe, just maybe its high time all the men and women in the Judiciary 'stood up' and did their actual job for a change, instead of keeping a revolving door racket going on while they sit in their closed off gated mansions.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭zv2


    That's the question that needs to be asked. Here's a quote from a great film The Thin Red Line-

    This great evil--where's it come from? How'd it steal into the world? What seed, what root did it grow from? Who's doing this? Who's killing us, robbing us of life and light, mocking us with the sight of what we mighta known? Does our ruin benefit the earth, aid the grass to grow and the sun to shine? Is this darkness in you too? Have you passed through this night?

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I really don't want to hear a woman poo. (Not that I like hearing men poo).

    I like to believe that women just do a barely audible bottom cough. Hearing them squit 4 pints of Guinness and a rake of chicken wings would ruin my illusion of the fairer sex



  • Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭SamStonesArm


    Pity I never seen a bouncer fckuing one of the drunk women out of the mens toilets when they decide its ok to come in instead of queuing up for their own toilet. Really boils my piss seen them bouncing around half scuttered and Im trying to do me piss or a few bumps



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭FishOnABike




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭zv2


    Who is going to be next? Sigh. Journalists need to up their game.

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭AyeGer




  • Registered Users Posts: 25 zerone


    Sorry now but we shouldn't let the facts get in the way our media's fear mongering, virtual signalling, self-promoting, click-baiting, axe grinding, revenue generating, divisive rhetoric .... dispassionate rational analysis of the facts will only lead us down the path to identifying real problems that women (and men) face that need real solutions. This will ultimately leave no room for childish platitudes, vacuous statements about "the patriarchy", about changing "the culture" or how the "systemic" nature of an ill-defined set of problems must be tackled .... echoed by people who don't seem to understand the definition of the word "systemic".

    I'm sorry but the facts simply don't support how many people feel and their 'lived experience'. If we keep letting the facts get in the way then we might end up in better world with fewer axes to grind and that's not a world I for one want to live in. I mean where will I get to direct all my bitterness and resentments, disappointments and sorrow? Life is hard and it's soooo not fair and someone (or some group) needs to be held accountable for that.



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