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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭CowboyTed


    Actually a few years back we had Marmion, Cooney and Blade....

    Cooney couldn't displace Marmion even though he was probably the best kicker at the time in the club.. Carty has got a lot better since at that..



  • Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭CowboyTed


    So tell us your better 3 OHs in Ireland at the moment...

    Ross Byrne plays way too deep.. He adds nothing to the game... Played England twice and it is wonder how Aki didn't end up hospital been double tackle by man and ball..

    Billy Burns is just poor... Very average player...

    Carberry is coming back from injury and is clearly not up to the pace yet... He is going to need time and games to get there... He has talent but he needs to prove it one the field... Last time there was a Carty v Carberry, Carty won MOTM on the loosing side...

    Harry needs game time anywhere, Leinster 'A's would be good enough... Healy interesting but not there yet..

    Crowley, bring him as a development player... I see Blade or Doak being with Crowley as or post RWC pairing... Those guys should be just getting as much gametime as possible...



  • Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭CowboyTed


    This was the orginal comment

    "Carthy is prone to some terrible brainfarts from time to time.


    Thats something that doesnt wash at international level.


    he deserves his inclusion in the squad, he is the only on form 10 in ireland but i dont fir a second think he is good enough to win a 6n"

    So I was answering that...



  • Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭CowboyTed


    The England game which got him selected for the Lions over Ringrose.. Aki is a Test Lion, Ringrose has never made the tour...

    The RWC sending off was considered quite unlucky at the time..

    Hume was ran over as a speed bump playing against Connacht earlier this season... Actually the Ulster pairing were absolutely outclassed that day by the Connacht second choice pairing... No one is shouting for Tom Daly to be selected..

    Ringrose doesn't have close to the speed to play 14......



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    I think ireland are off on a training week to portugual Monday. So might be the reason not many development players brought with the proviences due to play on the weekend if 28th/29th. With cooney out injured ulster would be pretty short if Doak was brought as a development player. Might be brought in for a week later in tournament.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,001 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    At present, Connacht have probably the strongest SH pairing in Ireland...

    You could equally argue they have the weakest SH pairing



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    Yeah I'm not saying he should be our first choice winger but id like to see him have a run there.

    Better to have a look at someone now rather than it becomes a necessity in say a 1/4 of a world cup due to injuries. Its not like any of the other wing options are nailed on starters..



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Did you miss the part where is said carthhy is playing the best rugby of any OH in ireland currently?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    I can’t see posts from the original poster. Though there is a recurring theme with your posts that you want to elevate the individual when it suits (Connacht Player). Yet use the context of it being a team sport when it doesn’t.

    Two Irish managers have both had a good look at Marmion, inside Irish camps and outside. Yet both have decided he’s not good enough for selection or is certainly not screaming inclusion. Probably for the same reason Luke McGrath doesn’t. Both fine club players. McGraths form last season had him ahead of JGP for Leinster despite the latter being selected for Ireland. On club based form McGrath was probably the best SH in the country but got nowhere near selection. Probably rightly so.

    Marmion out playing Casey in a game where Connacht outplayed Munster. Would be a ridiculous criteria for selecting one over the other. The reality is Casey has a chance of going to the next RWC. That’s why he is there, as apart from injury or possibly the Italy game he is unlikely to make the bench even.



  • Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭CowboyTed


    Jim you know you can be dishing the blue eyed boy from Blackrock wearing No. 13.... He is the Golden Child chosen as the special one...

    Honestly I play Aki and Henshaw, reason not to pick Henshaw is if he is injured... Henshaw is probably Ireland's best player and he plays best with Aki... I don't think they rigid on who is 12 and 13 that much... they both can take two tacklers if the crash ball and they have both got good hands and very solid knowledge of space...

    Ringrose completes the top three and in honesty is very close call... I think Hume is further back, better than Chris but I would say has tougher competion from Arnold (who is discounted now) and Tom Farrell(who injury prone around International section time).



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  • Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭CowboyTed


    As Connacht Supporter, I never said this... But Munster could do with Blade, he would add huge amount of speed to the base of the ruck... Blade is actually faster over the ground than Marmion...

    Cost: One promising No. 8



  • Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭CowboyTed


    Sorry Henshaw is the best 13 in the squad... Ringrose was pretty terrible most of last year, Henshaw might have been the best back in Europe... Henshaw is better at 13 than 12... But really excels when he gets the dual role with Aki



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,579 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Ringrose was injured for the majority of last year....



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,598 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    This has made me laugh. I never realised you worked for Connacht Rugby, and were such a hard-nosed negotiator, Cowboy.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,598 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I’d largely agree with this tbh.

    Comparing head-to-head individual records is practically worthless.

    I still remember one incident of this during a Ross Byrne vs Carty debate, where a poster admitted Carty had been the better 10 on the pitch in the then most recent Leinster game, but RB should be selected because he “got the job done” in a Leinster win. How do you argue with that, eh, logic?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    We have no shortage of wingers.

    Lowe, Earls, Conway, Ballycoune, Larmour all available, and stockdale who will be back.

    Your trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, or use a 6 nations to develop a utility back when we have other options or at least should use a club game for such experiments.

    A far more pressing matter is who is sextons backup, and who is third in line and is there anything resembling a plan to develop those players exposure to top teams, because thats a much bigger issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭jimdemp


    Too be fair he is injured for the majority of every year



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    Nearly 140 senior caps is some going for a player always injured



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Henshaw was better last year. But with respect that's mostly irrelevant now. Since the start of the new season Ringrose has regained his form and has improved upon his former best. His performances against Japan and New Zealand were the best he's ever played in green.

    As for partnerships, Aki and Ringrose have actually played quite well together in the past. They were effective in the Autumn international and have. Wouldn't have a problem with them linking up more often.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Or you’re just refusing to consider any other perspective other than your own. Have you considered that option?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭jimdemp


    Well given Aki has roughly the same amount of Ireland caps and could not play until he was 27 something must be up ? Dublin Media raved about him maybe they over hyped him



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,610 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    I don't think munster fans are in a position to be picky about Irish centers.....



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,598 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I’ve often disagreed with the OP, but to be fair here molloy, his statements were qualified with “I think” and “what I see as”.

    That suggests he has considered other perspectives but still disagrees with them. Which I think is fair enough tbh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Poorside


    Looks like the Aviva will be full for the Welsh game, that'll be some atmosphere.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,383 ✭✭✭Dave_The_Sheep


    Pretty rare for there to be "some atmosphere" in the Aviva, to be fair. It's normally pretty quiet. A few exceptions though, to be sure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭TRC10


    You do realise how flawed this logic is?

    They have roughly the same number of caps because they made their debuts a year apart. Ringrose has 3 more because yes, he has had injuries.

    The age Aki was when he made his debut is literally irrelevant.

    Nice moving of the goalposts, going from "injury prone" to "overhyped"



  • Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭CowboyTed


    Please explain that?

    Marmion is playing the best rugby of all the scrum halves in the country...

    Blade is not far behind him and is actually faster than him...

    Casey was left for dead against Marmion and it was Haley who did the chasing the last day ...

    Speed wise they are they two fastest to the rucks in the country... They don't kick but that is the plan, when you have a mobile pack you want to move the ball... Kicking is Carty duty...



  • Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭CowboyTed


    Luke McGrath is not good enough to play for Leinster at the higher games that was shown in the first Saracens game... Honestly Leinster biggest weakness against big packs is at SH, they don't know how to play behind retreating packs... This is where I think Cooney should have been brought in...

    I think Doak could be the guy going forward post RWC and possibly before hand... i would like to see him get quicker and moving the ball quicker but he has a lot of fine attributes...

    Crowley should have been brought in as a development player as I could see him accelerate quickly into a senior role...

    Hume I think deserves the call up but I think he is a good bit behind Ringrose.. Frawley is the opportunity missed, if he got game time at 10 I think he might be the one and a move to Ulster would be best for Irish Rugby.

    Picking Marmion and Carty is not a surprise as they are playing week in week out like the Irish team is attempting to play for years. They are the ones playing competitive rugby behind a less dominate pack... I am sorry but Leinster dominate pack has created half backs that paint by numbers in many games.

    In International games against the major sides we don't enjoy that type of dominance.. Half Backs need ability to understand and take risks, Sexton is a master at that.. That is why he is so good... His risk management is world class just astounding...

    And in fairness Conor Murray is a great general with waning powers... This is why I say Leinster understudies don't have the same experience as the other provinces...

    As Munster... They have the Van Grann game plan, it is truly terribly and only saved by some exceptional players who show great leadership qualities...



  • Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭CowboyTed


    I think every one agrees we have three very good centres and we generally have two available at times...

    I find the team plays better with Aki one the pitch, maybe he does the dog work or something... Henshaw seems to just seems to be released of duties when he is there... Ringrose showed the same think during the NZ game but as tightish call I would bank of Henshaw.. No crying in the cornflakes if Ringrose was there either, they are all high class and I would love all three on the field... But Ringrose isn't a winger anymore than Henshaw is a full back (thrown in at international level)...

    If we think different there should be URC games to try that out..



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,771 ✭✭✭CMcsporty


    Ringrose starts. Then A.N. Other.

    If Ireland can add another string to their bow it would be getting Lowry in at FB.

    15 Lowry

    14 Baloucoune

    13 Ringrose

    12 Aki/Henshaw

    11 Keenan / 23. Larmour/Conway

    with both Keenan and Lowry in the XV you could even have Aki/Henshaw at 23.



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